Do I really need a trust?

[hlb14]

I'm soon hoping to start purchasing suppressors and I'm having a hard time figuring out if a trust is the right way to go or not.  How would the added cost of a trust be a benefit in the long run?  My current train of thought is purchase the suppressors for the guns they will live on with no intention of moving them from gun to gun.  I don't have shooting buddies who would borrow them.  It is just my wife and if she ever wanted one for her gun she could get one.  What stays in my mind though is to go ahead and get the trust and add my wife after every purchase was made.  

Any input would be appreciated. 

[billyblazes]

Since 2016 with ATF's introduction of 41F, a trust does not have the benefit it did previously.  I have a NFA trust.  Since 2016 and the "Responsible Persons" credentialing addition added to a trust, my subsequent NFA stamps have been done as an individual.

Here's a great video explaining the change that took place in 2016 and why a trust is no longer the benefit it used to be. The truth about ATF 41F - The Legal Brief!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS92kUOpn2Q&feature=youtu.be

Edited February 7, 2021 by billyblazes

[Capbyrd]

On 2/7/2021 at 7:26 AM, hlb14 said:

I'm soon hoping to start purchasing suppressors and I'm having a hard time figuring out if a trust is the right way to go or not.  How would the added cost of a trust be a benefit in the long run?  My current train of thought is purchase the suppressors for the guns they will live on with no intention of moving them from gun to gun.  I don't have shooting buddies who would borrow them.  It is just my wife and if she ever wanted one for her gun she could get one.  What stays in my mind though is to go ahead and get the trust and add my wife after every purchase was made.  

Any input would be appreciated. 

 

Does your wife have access to the storage device that will hold your can?  If so, you are both in violation of the NFA.   The trust allows you both to possess without issue.  

 

[hlb14]

3 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

 

Does your wife have access to the storage device that will hold your can?  If so, you are both in violation of the NFA.   The trust allows you both to possess without issue.  

 

Thank you sir

[Capbyrd]

Just now, hlb14 said:

Thank you sir

You are welcome.  There is more to it with all of the inheritance stuff and whatnot but that has all been covered to death and I'm sure you are aware.  The access thing is something that I think a lot of people overlook. 

 

[midtennchip]

On 2/7/2021 at 12:06 PM, billyblazes said:

Since 2016 with ATF's introduction of 41F, a trust does not have the benefit it did previously.  I have a NFA trust.  Since 2016 and the "Responsible Persons" credentialing addition added to a trust, my subsequent NFA stamps have been done as an individual.

Here's a great video explaining the change that took place in 2016 and why a trust is no longer the benefit it used to be. The truth about ATF 41F - The Legal Brief!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS92kUOpn2Q&feature=youtu.be

While I like his explanation of what 41F is, that does not (in my opinion) cover very much of the benefits of a trust.  Yes, many people used trusts before 41F mainly for the benefit of avoiding fingerprints and passport photos.  But there are many benefits of using a trust that have nothing to do with tax stamp application process.  That video doesn't address those, likely because it was not intended to state "why a trust is no longer the benefit it used to be."  That majority of benefits still exist and really the only one that disappeared with 41F is avoiding the fingerprints and passport photo requirements.

I have run into many instances where having a trust would be highly beneficial beyond the issue of getting the tax stamp.

   1.  Possession by Trustees - this has been covered many times, so I won't go into detail here.  However, I am personally aware of several instances in Middle TN where someone has come into contact with LE (traffic stops, call to DCS, etc) when the individual tax stamp holder was not present, but the NFA item was.  This could be particularly important for individuals who travel regularly and leave the NFA item (i) in the house with someone else (like a spouse)  or (ii) in the possession of someone else (which happens regularly with deployed military personnel).

   2.  Passing NFA Items to Younger Generation - this has been covered and I won't go into detail here.

   3.  Simplicity after Death - a will typically works, but does your will deal with the possibility of a beneficiary who is not legally eligible to possess the NFA item.  You might be surprised how often this happens.  Also, NFA items cannot be easily divided, so if you have (for example) 3 NFA items and 2 beneficiaries, who gets what?  NFA trusts generally take care of this issue.

   4.  What if You become an Ineligible Person (temporarily or permanently) -  This one has come up several times.  An older gentleman had a WWII battlefield "trophy" he registered with the ATF in 1986 (no trust, though).  A few years ago, he had a conservator appointed over him, making him ineligible to possess firearms.  Since he hadn't passed away, the NFA item could not just be passed on to his son (who obviously wanted it).  In addition, the gentleman's conservator could not legally possess it, either (and she wasn't "gun friendly).  The item had to be destroyed or sold.   Similar issue has arisen in several divorce proceedings lately, with the husband having an Order of Protection issued against him.  When that happened, husband was ineligible and there was no one to take possession while the Order still existed.  Several people have had to sell or destroy NFA items under these circumstances.  If a trust had been in place, the ineligible person could have been removed as a trustee and another trustee could have possessed the item.

These are just a few of the odd circumstances where a trust is better than individual ownership.  We would love for the previous benefits to still exist, too, but there are still many benefits of a trust.

[midsouthgunlawyer]

On 2/8/2021 at 10:49 AM, Capbyrd said:

 

Does your wife have access to the storage device that will hold your can?  If so, you are both in violation of the NFA.   The trust allows you both to possess without issue.  

 

This. If you forget your suppressor in the car and your takes it [the car with the suppressor in it] to work then she's in unlawful possession. It happens more than you might suspect. Also keep in mind that the executor to your will may have no idea what to do with a suppressor. I had one executor close the estate while the machine gun was in his possession... for two years. We had to quietly reopen the estate and get the transfer approved by both the ATF and the probate court.