Poor Mans Benelli M4? Horrible Clone? or a Smoking Steal?

[Magiccarpetrides]

Known by many different names P4, Canuck Operator, Turkinelli....or in this American Guise the Panzer M4....uses the same ARGO system as the Benelli M4 (patent expired) and they claim all the parts are interchangeable.  Has actual ghost ring sights (not the blade found on some of the other clones).  At $550 or roughly 1/3-1/4 of an actual Benelli M4...is this a steal?  (especially with todays crackhead market)

Panzer Arms M4 Tactical Semi-Automatic Shotgun 18.5" Barrel 12GA 3" 5rd - Piston Driven - Black (classicfirearms.com)

 

[1gewehr]

Do you really think that the clone has had the extensive testing and field work that the Benelli has had?  Will every part prove as reliable?  Are the parts all made to the same standards as the Benelli?  Do you want to find out the hard way that ONE critical part really is NOT perfectly interchangeable?

Personally, if I just wanted the shotgun for occasional use, I might go for the clone.  But if I felt that there was a chance I MIGHT need to depend on it, I'd spring the extra for the real deal.

 

[Magiccarpetrides]

Oh I know it ain’t a benelli but for what i would be using it for I can replace a whole lotta parts at that price before I ever regretted the purchase...which I guess makes my decision easy

[Smith]

  On 1/18/2021 at 3:28 PM, 1gewehr said:

Do you really think that the clone has had the extensive testing and field work that the Benelli has had?  Will every part prove as reliable?  Are the parts all made to the same standards as the Benelli?  Do you want to find out the hard way that ONE critical part really is NOT perfectly interchangeable?

Personally, if I just wanted the shotgun for occasional use, I might go for the clone.  But if I felt that there was a chance I MIGHT need to depend on it, I'd spring the extra for the real deal.

 

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Not disagreeing with you entirely, but yes to your question about testing and field work ... Benelli did it. If they are making a true clone then there is little difference. Then you are looking at individual parts that if they don't hold up can be replaced with Benelli or better aftermarket parts. 

I have used the Hawk/IAC/Pardener 870 clones and believe they are better than the Remington's. The Hawk I have, actually has a better grade steel than Remington's due to US EPA regulations and it takes straight 870 part with only a slight modification to the forearm. 

It's not different than 1911's or AR's other than scale.

[Chucktshoes]

  On 1/18/2021 at 3:46 PM, Magiccarpetrides said:

Oh I know it ain’t a benelli but for what i would be using it for I can replace a whole lotta parts at that price before I ever regretted the purchase...which I guess makes my decision easy

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Be sure to let us know how you like it in 3-4 months (after order) when you get it. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Chucktshoes

[Links2k]

  On 1/18/2021 at 3:46 PM, Magiccarpetrides said:

Oh I know it ain’t a benelli but for what i would be using it for I can replace a whole lotta parts at that price before I ever regretted the purchase...which I guess makes my decision easy

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Good point and this shotgun may give you years of trouble free service, but I still wouldn’t be satisfied knowing it’s not the real deal.  I’m flawed like that. 

[Magiccarpetrides]

  On 1/18/2021 at 5:54 PM, Links2k said:

Good point and this shotgun may give you years of trouble free service, but I still wouldn’t be satisfied knowing it’s not the real deal.  I’m flawed like that. 

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That’s cause you a baller 

[Slpeod]

So I have a benelli M4 and also recently just got the shipping notification for a group buy I did at work for 25 Black Ace Tactical Bullpup Pro’s https://blackacestactical.com/product/pro-series-bullpup-semiautomatic/. It’s basically a Turkish import they modify and sell as their own. 
 

While I agree with the established pedigree of the M4, the BAT Pro fits a niche, and is guaranteed by the Florida based company. They run nicely and are much easier to run for home defense/cqb than my benelli. The M4 will break you off in cqb, it’s a beast and I would also never leave my benelli out of the safe. While the BAT at 28” (compared to the M4 at 40”) with a 10 round mag in a semi auto platform at $400 won’t bring me to my knees asking WTF if something happened to it because I left it by the bed and didn’t secure it. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Slpeod

[Magiccarpetrides]

  On 1/18/2021 at 8:10 PM, Slpeod said:

So I have a benelli M4 and also recently just got the shipping notification for a group buy I did at work for 25 Black Ace Tactical Bullpup Pro’s https://blackacestactical.com/product/pro-series-bullpup-semiautomatic/. It’s basically a Turkish import they modify and sell as their own. 
 

While I agree with the established pedigree of the M4, the BAT Pro fits a niche, and is guaranteed by the Florida based company. They run nicely and are much easier to run for home defense/cqb than my benelli. The M4 will break you off in cqb, it’s a beast and I would also never leave my benelli out of the safe. While the BAT at 28” (compared to the M4 at 40”) with a 10 round mag in a semi auto platform at $400 won’t bring me to my knees asking WTF if something happened to it because I left it by the bed and didn’t secure it. 

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Is the pro run inertia or is it an Argo cloned action too?

[Moped]

Here is another M4ish made in Turkey shotgun.  I had the opportunity to hand one last week and was quite impressed. 

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gun-review-toros-copolla-t4-tactical-shotgun/

 

[A.J. Holst]

I'd like to have a semi of some sort, but the old 870 Tac hasn't been used since our last shotgun class.

My shotgun ammo was definitely bought cheap and still stacked deep.

I will say with a few hours of instruction, one can run a pump pretty efficiently.

[Johnny Rotten]

Semi is were its at...my go to SG is semi or pump, its never in pump mode.

[Chucktshoes]

  On 2/6/2021 at 4:18 PM, Johnny Rotten said:

Semi is were its at...my go to SG is semi or pump, its never in pump mode.

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SPAS-12?

[Johnny Rotten]

  On 2/6/2021 at 5:49 PM, Chucktshoes said:

SPAS-12?

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Yep, there is a button in the foregrip  push fw and lock semi, push back and lock it's in pump.

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Johnny Rotten

[MP5_Rizzo]

  On 2/6/2021 at 7:38 PM, Johnny Rotten said:

Yep,

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How often have you used the hook for it's intended purpose?

[Johnny Rotten]

  On 2/6/2021 at 8:29 PM, MP5_Rizzo said:

How often have you used the hook for it's intended purpose?

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Never... but it cool as hell that its there...your talking about how it wraps around your forearm right.

You can use the hook as FW handle when the stock is folded up and the hook turned to either side.

[MP5_Rizzo]

Yeah for one handed operating. Under the forearm when arm is extended or the back side of the upper arm above the elbow when held Rambo M60 style.

 

[Johnny Rotten]

  On 2/6/2021 at 11:30 PM, MP5_Rizzo said:

Yeah for one handed operating. Under the forearm when arm is extended or the back side of the upper arm above the elbow when held Rambo M60 style.

 

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or lol...

 

[Magiccarpetrides]

So i got the Charles Daly and found a Norwegian company that made the M1014 clone stocks (adjustable) and shes pretty...but I still haven't shot her lol.  Here's a killer deal currently from Classic on Panzer version.

Panzer Arms M4 Tactical Shotgun 18.5" Barrel 12GA 3" 5rd Piston Driven (classicfirearms.com)  ($449?!??!?!)

 

[Godcountrygun]

I learn that dont go cheap because probably end up buying the expensive one anyway down the road

[Burnman5000]

  On 3/14/2022 at 5:40 PM, Magiccarpetrides said:

So i got the Charles Daly and found a Norwegian company that made the M1014 clone stocks (adjustable) and shes pretty...but I still haven't shot her lol.  Here's a killer deal currently from Classic on Panzer version.

Panzer Arms M4 Tactical Shotgun 18.5" Barrel 12GA 3" 5rd Piston Driven (classicfirearms.com)  ($449?!??!?!)

 

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I wanna know where you found the M1014 clone stock 

[Magiccarpetrides]

  On 3/22/2022 at 12:59 PM, Burnman5000 said:

I wanna know where you found the M1014 clone stock 

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Now keep in mind the price is in New Zealand dollars but their website is safe to order from and it does auto convert to dollars which is quite a bit less.  Now granted these have jumped quite a bit since I bought one but still way less than the $800 (599 back order) Benelli wants.

 

Telescopic Stock & Pistol Grip - Sulun TAC-12 - Delta Mike Ltd

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Magiccarpetrides
price

[Prod951]

I thought the poor mans m4 was the 1301??

[Chucktshoes]

  On 3/23/2022 at 7:34 PM, Prod951 said:

I thought the poor mans m4 was the 1301??

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No, that’s the smarter man’s M4. 

[Burnman5000]

  On 3/23/2022 at 7:43 PM, Chucktshoes said:

No, that’s the smarter man’s M4. 

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I had both for awhile.  They're both great shotguns.  I think, depending on usage, the 1301 is the better gun for the price.