Gun I sold was stolen!

[Guest justme]

I would call the BATF personally and see what they have to say about it. See if they have an agent assigned to your area and when the next time they will be around. If not any other reason than CYA. Make the system work for you if at all possible.

Something is really fishy and it may have happened may times to other folks as well.

If you go to the ATF, then take your lawyer with you--because he or she will be the only one worried about your rights.

Personally, I would just take the serial number, along with a lawyer along to an out of county highway patrol station and ask a trooper to run it and find out what comes back. Something is fishy here--and I mean it just reaks.

Personally though, I would be more interested in finding out how the original detective from Overton Co. obtained my contact information, and whether he/she lied to a judge in order to do so.

CYOA means more than just aimlessly talking to the police and answering all of their questions--they don't care about your rights--you should, and that is the reason you should have a lawyer present in my opinion. Remember--nothing you say to them can be used to help you once they get you in court-but everything you tell them can be used against you.

[TripleDigitRide]

He already stated in at least one of his posts (IIRC) that he had his home and cell phone number in the ad. I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to find out a location with those phone numbers. Especially if the home number. If it's listed, his home address is attached.

It's the Internet. You can find just about anyone, with very little information.

[Guest justme]

I think I would quit posting guns on LSN. It's like Craigslist with guns.

why would you say that?

[TripleDigitRide]

LSN isn't that bad. You just have to be aware of your surroundings.

I've only had one issue with LSN, and that was a recent dealing with a fellow from Kingston. I was supposed to meet him to buy a Marine Magnum, but he stood me up, and didn't answer my calls or emails. Other than that, I've had pretty good luck.

The worst part of LSN is the crazy prices that pop-up all the time. Weed through those, and it's not all that bad. Just remember, you're dealing with the Internet.

[Guest justme]

He already stated in at least one of his posts (IIRC) that he had his home and cell phone number in the ad. I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to find out a location with those phone numbers. Especially if the home number. If it's listed, his home address is attached.

It's the Internet. You can find just about anyone, with very little information.

yeah--I just realized that when I went back through the posts on page 2 yet again. So that explains how the person most likely got his address and name, but does not explain the rest of it.

as for the internet--yeah, it's easy to find just about anything. Still though, this whole thing stinks.

[I_Like_Pie]

If you go to the ATF, then take your lawyer with you--because he or she will be the only one worried about your rights.

Maybe so. Agree that sword can swing both ways. However the risk is pretty low to nil on anything coming back to the person here with a real concern. We are talking a person of authority possibly lying to scam firearms off of an innocent citizen. They LOVE to look into cases like that.

Edited February 28, 2009 by I_Like_Pie

[Guest justme]

Maybe so. Agree that sword can swing both ways. However the risk is pretty low to nil on anything coming back to the person here with a real concern. We are talking a person of authority possibly lying to scam firearms off of an innocent citizen. They LOVE to look into cases like that.

Perhaps you are right that the ATF would be who to contact about a person of authority possibly trying to scam firearms from an individual....or perhaps the FBI? Official oppression maybe?

Still though--take a lawyer with you.

Edited February 28, 2009 by justme

[Guest Rem_700]

After reading all your posts,and sitting here thinking about it.I will call the detective back in the morning and see what the deal is.WHy did the Overton,Co detective say he ran the serial number,when you could not see the serial number and how they got my home address.The cell number is in my name but the home phone isn't listed in my name,but it is were I live.

[Fadex]

I'm willing to bet he has access a little database called the Polk Directory. You can find almost anyone, anywhere, with as little as a name, address or phone number. Doesn't matter if your phone numbers are private or not, they are in the database.

[VERO1]

Maybe instead of talking with the detective, you should be talking to his chief or sheriff. They might be interested in what the "mice" or doing while they are occupied!

[Guest abailey362]

this does smell weird, but it could be possible that the buyer contacted someone at the sheriff's office to run the serial of the gun he just bought.

on the other side is this is a bad cop situation, he wouldn't actually need a serial #. he could just say the serial was stolen, take the gun before you had time to think, and then memorize the # to put on any forms if you or anyone else requested them later.

[Volzfan]

OK What if this Det. that came by was a friend of the guy who bought the gun. He tells you its stolen. You tell him who bought the gun (he already knows that). The guy that you sold the gun to calls you to gripe about you selling him a stolen gun that was confiscated by the Det. but it wasn't really. You refund the guys money.

He still has the gun and he splits the refund with the Det.

Then he sells the gun because he didn't really didn't want the gun to begin with. It was just a part of the scam. They basically get a free gun to sell and split the profit. He comes out ahead by 50% of the price of the gun, the Det. has 50% and, guess what? You are screwed!

Could be?!?!?!?!

[Guest mikedwood]

why would you say that?

LSN scares me personally for gun purchases, if I am buying a gun or much more rarely selling one, I fell more comfortable knowing who I am dealing with. It wouldn't be that hard at all to unknowingly get a stolen gun or two off LSN at times. But I don't fault anyone for using the LSN for anything, or Craigslist.

As for the op. Sorry that happened to you.

Since you did call the police department and talk to the detective it could be the guy called it in to a friend to check out his new gun and misread the serial by a digit, hence the gun coming back clean once the visiting detective got the serial you had.

He could have bought several guns that day off LSN and got who he bought what off of confused.

Unless the detective is in a mood I doubt he will tell you much. Had he not been a real detective I'd be worried they were casing my house.

I have also heard people say that law enforcement (but I heard it was batfe) works Golsn pretty hard. Mainly looking for people making an income flipping firearms without a license. (maybe an outragous rumour)

[TripleDigitRide]

I have also heard people say that law enforcement (but I heard it was batfe) works Golsn pretty hard. Mainly looking for people making an income flipping firearms without a license. (maybe an outragous rumour)

No, that's a fact. I know of one person who got a visit. He wasn't "flipping" guns, but he does have a VERY large collection (most he's had for years) that he was trying to sell off to pay for doctor bills. I know he's still selling on LSN, but has dropped it down several notches. He was never charged with anything.

I did hear of another person or two getting similar visits, but don't know for a fact. The rumor was/is, the local gun shop was getting upset with all the business he's been losing to LSN. Again, a rumor that I have no proof.

[Guest Grizzly Johnson]

What up 30-30

It's Grizzly....

[Guest mikedwood]

No, that's a fact. I know of one person who got a visit. He wasn't "flipping" guns, but he does have a VERY large collection (most he's had for years) that he was trying to sell off to pay for doctor bills. I know he's still selling on LSN, but has dropped it down several notches. He was never charged with anything.

I did hear of another person or two getting similar visits, but don't know for a fact. The rumor was/is, the local gun shop was getting upset with all the business he's been losing to LSN. Again, a rumor that I have no proof.

It sounded like a reasonable enough rumour to me. I thought it might have legs.

From what it sounded like to me, they were looking for people who were buying a gun on there for say $250 and selling it soon after for $400 (or whatever). Repeatedly. They would offer a gun up for sale real cheap, then sell it to a suspect (dunno how they knew) then keep checking back and when that gun appeared again they would send in a buyer. I have never seen that many for sale real cheap on LSN, so it must be a very limited operation.

Kinda the same deal as them going after guys who travel from gun show to gun show as private sellers buying and trading the whole way.

[Guest Spuds]

The rumor was/is, the local gun shop was getting upset with all the business he's been losing to LSN. Again, a rumor that I have no proof.

It does sound like the MO of Ken's Guns out of Lewisburg, but he's way down south. The few items I've read on the alleged busts were all centered around Cookeville and north to the KY border.

From what I understand, Ken's Guns was booted from one promoter's show for urging other dealers and the promoter to ask the jbt's to look into all the traders who held tables without an FFL.

[TGO David]

I had no idea who it was.Didn't remember his name. So I called the Sheriffs dept and described the detective to them and they said oh that must be Ed Boyd.So they transfered me and he rememberd right away.Im guessing that they could have traced my IP address or searchd the phone numbers i listed.I gave both home and cell numbers.

After reading all your posts,and sitting here thinking about it.I will call the detective back in the morning and see what the deal is.WHy did the Overton,Co detective say he ran the serial number,when you could not see the serial number and how they got my home address.The cell number is in my name but the home phone isn't listed in my name,but it is were I live.

You know, the really disturbing thing about this whole situation is that you apparently gave a lot of cooperation and information to someone who may or may not have been impersonating a police officer (unbeknownst to you at the time) during the initial face to face meeting.

So essentially you let someone come to (possibly into) your house and query you about a firearm, upon which you surrendered information about the buyer ... all of which without verifying that the person was really a law enforcement officer and all of which without a warrant being served to you.

Remind me to never buy a gun from you.

[Guest Astra900]

You know, the really disturbing thing about this whole situation is that you apparently gave a lot of cooperation and information to someone who may or may not have been impersonating a police officer (unbeknownst to you at the time) during the initial face to face meeting.

So essentially you let someone come to (possibly into) your house and query you about a firearm, upon which you surrendered information about the buyer ... all of which without verifying that the person was really a law enforcement officer and all of which without a warrant being served to you.

Remind me to never buy a gun from you.

Roger that! I can't see any respectable detective being insulted by asking to see his credentials. I can't see a situation where I would ever tell them who I sold to either. That's why every sale is to a stranger at a gun show.

[midtennchip]

Just an FYI to all --

1. If the gun was stolen before Rem 700 purchased the gun from the pawn broker (which I would think would be considered a "merchant" under the law), then the original owner would NOT be able to recover the gun from Rem 700 (or anyone else that Rem 700 sold it to). The pawn broker might have a problem, but Rem 700 would not be required to return the gun (or recover the gun from the person he sold it to).

2. This is NOT the case if the gun does not pass through a merchant. That is, the original owner CAN recover the stolen property if no one ever purchased the gun from a "merchant" in the "ordinary course of business."

These are just principles under property law. Unfortunately, a LOT of LEOs do not know this principle. From a practical matter, it may not be financially beneficial to go to court to enforce this principle if an LEO takes the gun anyway. Obviously, if this is all a scam, maybe just quoting this principle will make it go away.

[strickj]

Roger that! I can't see any respectable detective being insulted by asking to see his credentials. I can't see a situation where I would ever tell them who I sold to either. That's why every sale is to a stranger at a gun show.

In fact I think it would be smiled upon!

Ive heard that woman police rep dude on the local news say several times,that if ever in doubt that it may not be a cop,just dial 911 and ask

Could be for any number of things like being pulled over by a non-marked car,to a situation like this where one guy is at your door.

And if their not legit,you will find out right quick I suppose,as well as the impersonator!

[Guest Astra900]

And if their not legit,you will find out right quick I suppose,as well as the impersonator!

I would think that could be dangerous and very fun at the same time!

[TGO David]

Could be for any number of things like being pulled over by a non-marked car,to a situation like this where one guy is at your door.

I got pulled over by an unmarked car in Smyrna a few years ago. A Jeep in fact. I made him follow me about 1 mile to the nearest shopping center and then, when he approached my car in jeans and a T-Shirt told him to walk his ass right back and call for a marked cruiser if he was really who he said he was.

5 mins later I was having to explain to the nice officer in the marked car why I was so short with the dweeb in the Jeep.

Better safe than sorry.

[Guest Astra900]

I got pulled over by an unmarked car in Smyrna a few years ago. A Jeep in fact. I made him follow me about 1 mile to the nearest shopping center and then, when he approached my car in jeans and a T-Shirt told him to walk his ass right back and call for a marked cruiser if he was really who he said he was.

5 mins later I was having to explain to the nice officer in the marked car why I was so short with the dweeb in the Jeep.

Better safe than sorry.

It's easier to apologize to the officer, than widow your MRS in a back road altercation with a poser bent on a robbing/killing you:up:

Not saying you couldn't expedite his day of judgement first, but no un-necessary risks, right:D

[Guest mark_justmark]

Tungsten?

I was just wondering how an unmarked car would try and pull someone over?

Was he shouting at you through the window "Citizen's Arrest?"

I got pulled over by an unmarked car in Smyrna a few years ago.... Better safe than sorry.