Is TGO now like Twitter?

[Hozzie]

I actually hate to start this topic and it may be deleted, but has TGO now become just like Twitter?  We shut down a discussion because we think there aren't any "facts" for discussion.  Who's facts?  

We may think that there are conspiracy theorists amongst us and that some things are blown out of proportion, but does that mean we can't discuss them.  We went from no politics to only 2A politics and now it's not even that if somehow one of the admins doesn't think it meets the "Facts" they would like to see.

I agree that Facebook should be flushed down the drain, but jeez, let people have a discussion.  We are all adults and can figure our what we agree with or not.  I can certainly determine what I think is a fact or not.  I agree we shouldn't let things get personal, but this over the top moderation is too much.  If we are going to go down this path, can we  all point out facts we don't agree with and request the shut down of a thread.

Frustrating....

 

I want to add, one the best ways to combat non-factual information is with factual information.  We don't seem to have an issue with people with two different points of view expressing them.  Let someone challenge the topics if needed, but closing them is not the right answer if it hasn't become personal.  I am not talking about politics in general.  If it meets your requirement of 2A related, let them discuss it.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Hozzie

[Omega]

26 minutes ago, Hozzie said:

I actually hate to start this topic and it may be deleted, but has TGO now become just like Twitter?  We shut down a discussion because we think there aren't any "facts" for discussion.  Who's facts?  

We may think that there are conspiracy theorists amongst us and that some things are blown out of proportion, but does that mean we can't discuss them.  We went from no politics to only 2A politics and now it's not even that if somehow one of the admins doesn't think it meets the "Facts" they would like to see.

I agree that Facebook should be flushed down the drain, but jeez, let people have a discussion.  We are all adults and can figure our what we agree with or not.  I can certainly determine what I think is a fact or not.  I agree we shouldn't let things get personal, but this over the top moderation is too much.  If we are going to go down this path, can we  all point out facts we don't agree with and request the shut down of a thread.

Frustrating....

 

I want to add, one the best ways to combat non-factual information is with factual information.  We don't seem to have an issue with people with two different points of view expressing them.  Let someone challenge the topics if needed, but closing them is not the right answer if it hasn't become personal.  I am not talking about politics in general.  If it meets your requirement of 2A related, let them discuss it.

Somewhat, yes.  I think I know the discussion you mean, and on another thread the bill (fact) was posted to keep that one open.

[deerslayer]

59 minutes ago, Hozzie said:

I actually hate to start this topic and it may be deleted, but has TGO now become just like Twitter?  We shut down a discussion because we think there aren't any "facts" for discussion.  Who's facts?  

We may think that there are conspiracy theorists amongst us and that some things are blown out of proportion, but does that mean we can't discuss them.  We went from no politics to only 2A politics and now it's not even that if somehow one of the admins doesn't think it meets the "Facts" they would like to see.

I agree that Facebook should be flushed down the drain, but jeez, let people have a discussion.  We are all adults and can figure our what we agree with or not.  I can certainly determine what I think is a fact or not.  I agree we shouldn't let things get personal, but this over the top moderation is too much.  If we are going to go down this path, can we  all point out facts we don't agree with and request the shut down of a thread.

Frustrating....

 

I want to add, one the best ways to combat non-factual information is with factual information.  We don't seem to have an issue with people with two different points of view expressing them.  Let someone challenge the topics if needed, but closing them is not the right answer if it hasn't become personal.  I am not talking about politics in general.  If it meets your requirement of 2A related, let them discuss it.

It’s the new style.  

[btq96r]

I don't think it's too much to ask for folks to cite what they're starting a conversation over if it's about some proposed legislation or executive action.  It's a waste of time when we get into, "I was reading" or " a friend told me", when there isn't anything substantive to back it up.

[Hozzie]

3 minutes ago, btq96r said:

I don't think it's too much to ask for folks to cite what they're starting a conversation over if it's about some proposed legislation or executive action.  It's a waste of time when we get into, "I was reading" or " a friend told me", when there isn't anything substantive to back it up.

Is this a forum or a news outlet?   These forums are about opinions.  Sure, great if there is some additional backup, but that has never been a requirement nor should it be.  People can decide for themselves what is pertinent.  We don’t need others telling us what we should believe are facts or not.  

[E4 No More]

10 minutes ago, Hozzie said:

Is this a forum or a news outlet?   These forums are about opinions.  Sure, great if there is some additional backup, but that has never been a requirement nor should it be.  People can decide for themselves what is pertinent.  We don’t need others telling us what we should believe are facts or not.  

And we know that some folks thing that their delusions are facts.

[Erik88]

3 minutes ago, Hozzie said:

Is this a forum or a news outlet?  

I'm not sure it matters. What matters is what the staff decides. If there is one thing I've learned after being here 11 years it's that TGO is not a Democracy. I hated David's decision to shut down politics but I'm going to respect his decision like he asked. I think what they are trying to avoid now is misinformation or speculation which is exactly what was in the thread that MacGyver locked earlier. The next 2-4 years are going to be full of people constantly speculating and worrying about pending gun control.  We've been down this path before. If folks are going to start a thread I don't think asking them to list a source is really that crazy of a request.  

 

1 hour ago, Hozzie said:

I want to add, one the best ways to combat non-factual information is with factual information. 

I wish this was still true. I really do. 

[papa61]

By participating in these forums, we agree to abide by the rules set forth. That is That.

On the subject of backing up what someone said they heard, I do agree it is up to the reader to do the research. SOMETIMES rumors are the only truth you will hear before a law is on the books. I thought that is what the 2A forum was for, so we could stay abreast of what others heard. We certainly cannot trust any single source any more, the more input the better.

Just remember we are all in this together and maintain decorum. Don't insult your comrades in battle, they are watching your back. If they err, be nice and try to lead them to see it for themselves. If you can't do that, just let it go as you would with any good friend.

[Hozzie]

@Erik88I have been here longer than you so I am well aware of how things work. 
 

Facts are a lot like statistics now.  One can make them fit about any narrative they want.    I can decide for myself what “facts” to believe or not.  Facts nowadays aren’t “the sun is hot”.  

We are at a crossroads in our country about what is free speech and transparency.   Before someone says this is a private site, I understand that.  It would seem that if we want to limit discussion on a gun forum to a narrative only a few decide are worthy of discussion we have already lost.  
 

Prove them wrong.  You can say they won’t listen.  You can’t change that.  Simply shutting down their opinion isn’t the right way to go about it in my opinion.  My opinion doesn’t really matter I suppose but I don’t think I am being out of line.  

Edited January 11, 2021 by Hozzie

[TGO David]

Look, I am really sick of this crap.  Everything we have done lately has been designed to keep TGO available for all of us.

Read this story:

https://rantingly.com/godaddy-cancels-ar15-com/

 

This could easily happen to us.  I am working NOW to set up a contingency plan.  If you can't work with us on this, then get the hell off of TGO and go somewhere else.  I can't fight THEM and fight you guys here.

 

[Grand Torino]

Honest to God some peoples kids.