Gun control article on NY Times

[Darrell]

I take a look at the NY Times website every morning, along with several other news sites, and I noted that this morning there's a front-page link to an article by Gabrielle Giffords, the former representative who was shot and now [figure]heads an anti-gun group. The article only touches on gun-control, but Giffords mentions Biden's "vision" for a safer America. Biden isn't yet sworn in, and already the anti-gun probes and preparation are beginning.  Democrats will shortly hold the presidency, the house, and the senate. Stand by for an onslaught against our Second Amendment right. Personally, I'm very concerned. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Darrell

[geekitupsum]

I'm concerned as well as everyone else should be. It's going to get ugly

[JunkiCosmonaut]

Yeeeeeah gotta get the public primed and ready!

[Erik88]

2 hours ago, Darrell said:

Stand by for an onslaught against our Second Amendment right. Personally, I'm very concerned. 

I have been reading some variation of this statement on TGO for over a decade. I cannot spend every day worrying about something I have zero control over. They have a tiny majority in the Senate. Razor Thin. I believe it's very unlikely that each Democrat will sign on to major gun control. For democratic senators in red states it would be a death sentence for their career. Let's be honest, they care about saying in the Senate more than ANYTHING else. 

The more likely scenario is some form of executive order which I believe would be taken to SCOTUS. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Erik88

[JunkiCosmonaut]

I'll say this. Its a measure of hope. I dont think gun control is as popular with the American public as it may be presented in certain news outlets. I think one nice thing thats come in the past decade is a rise of some aspects of the firearms world to "pop-culture" status because people genuinely like it. Just a small example would be how taran butler's popularity shot up in the general publics eye after the john wick franchise became popular.

A lot of movies go more for firearms realism and not just the "this is generic machine gun that go brrrr" type of thing that used to be more typical in films because they know a good portion of the audience is firearms savvy.

I've met a lot of guys 18 ~ 35 from deep blue cities that are 100% pro 2A. Some have been raging commies.....granted, but they don't support any laws restricting the right of the people to own and possess any firearm. I would even say based on what I've seen (again these are anecdotes so take that for what you will) the very very far left is as opposed to gun control as the right.

Also remember that when we had SHTF lite earlier in the year we had millions of new gun owners taking home a lot more than double barrel shotguns. That proves that when your balls are in a vice superior firepower is popular despite the ravings of the frazzled media.

I would say the majority of gun control support comes from the reactionaries, and theyre flakey so you can only get their true undevided support when you pump out news stories about gun violence for weeks on end. Now what this means as far as government is concerned..... well I can't say, if they want you disarmed they'll pass a law, or impose a huge tax....etc.

 Laws are also letters to Santa clause if no-one enforces them, but thats a digression.

Ultimately my point is gun control is a knives-edge topic. Its just a huge balancing act. You bring it up, you will hear your approval being slowly sucked down the drain. I may be totally wrong and babbling a bunch of B.S. but thats just my stream of consciousness on it. 

[FUJIMO]

I believe the next administration will declare gun violence a public health crisis, circumvent laws put in place in years ago to prevent that very thing via the CDC, and drive it through with an EO or similar act. I believe in the wake of the pandemic a large amount of our citizens would accept it as "common sense" laws and go back to wringing their hands about the newest strain of death. 

[peejman]

48 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I have been reading some variation of this statement on TGO for over a decade. I cannot spend every day worrying about something I have zero control over. They have a tiny majority in the Senate. Razor Thin. I believe it's very unlikely that each Democrat will sign on to major gun control. For democratic senators in red states it would be a death sentence for their career. Let's be honest, they care about saying in the Senate more than ANYTHING else. 

The more likely scenario is some for of executive order which I believe would be taken to SCOTUS. 

Agreed. And SCOTUS has addressed this fairly recently.  I think it would take some very creative work to spin it in a different way. 

[Swamp ash]

I think gun control is a wedge-issue topic designed to rally the base, for the most part. While many politicians may run on such platforms, they may not necessarily vote on them. And then, matters must clear the Courts.

We need to be calm, be reasonable and offer a historical/educational perspective of the importance of the 2nd Amendment and how it impacts and improves our safety/democracy. I think there are many relevant and current examples that can be used in our explanations.

What I don't think we need are open-carry gun rallies and armed folks storming into legislatures demanding gun rights, etc as this seems to work counter towards the goal.  Being cool, polite and empathetic will work much better than shouting matches and mutual disdain.

Full Disclosure: I am NOT a card-carrying member of the Optimists Club - lol!

 

[Darrell]

I moved to TN from WA two years ago, not least because of the politics there. WA has one of the most pro-gun ownership constitutions in the country, and has long had a population of blue-collar, independent folks, many of whom love to hunt and fish. But over the past 20 years or so that culture has slowly changed. Not long before I moved new laws were passed that required "universal" background checks, meaning that EVERY firearms transaction now must go through an FFL. If I wanted to loan a rifle to my brother for a hunting trip, I'd be required to take it to an FFL and have it transferred to him, then we'd have to go back again to transfer it to me when he's done with it. New laws in WA require "safe storage" and it seems that at every legislative session more restrictions are proposed. 

Politics is opportunistic. Right now the anti-gun forces have a lot going for them. They control two of the three branches of government, and probably most importantly, they control the press. The past five years have proved to me that the press is willing to mislead and outright lie about conditions in our nation. The left also controls the social media giants, which have shown a willingness to suppress political speech they deem false or harmful. I hope Erik88 is right and I'm wrong, but I expect to see a strong assault on gun rights, and very soon. After all, how can any of be opposed to "common sense gun safety"?

The first I look for is repealing the legislation that protects gun manufacturers, the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. It will be pretty easy to bleed the manufacturers dry with multiple law suits.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Darrell

[Grayfox54]

The Democrats have a whole laundry list of "progressive" changes they want to make. Gun control is on there somewhere, but I don't think its at the top of the list. I'm thinking they may try something soon, only to have it cause an uproar they don't want right now. Then they'll move on to other projects. Covid issues may work in our favor as that's the pressing problem right now. 

Hopefully we can hold them off for two years and make changes in our favor come the mid-term election. 

[Erik88]

I'll say this, if I'm wrong in my previous post, and they actually do pass sweeping gun control, then the events at the Capitol will look minor compared to what I imagine will happen. I'll be praying for peace.

[gary_boom]

I think the new administration first priority will be to punish gun owners for supporting Trump. 

[Erich]

The issue is the media and the control of the message. The media / social media will be used to control the masses as we have seen over the last year, and most critically over the last week.

I want to share the hopeful thoughts, I really do. However I have lived among the ignorant blue masses before coming here. I've seen this happen on a state scale. The ignorant are easily played with proper marketing featuring words like "safety" and "common sense". As the saying goes, never underestimate the power of stupid. 7 million new gun owners is far to few, far to late to factor.

Darrell's comments are on point, they have just had the perfect storm to capitalize on. They likely will align any reasonable 2A movement with resent calls labeling conservatives as violent insurrectionist loonatics while holding up the contrary as peaceful examples of democracy.

They are using pointed research and messaging, targeting women and younger gens. They are brilliant marketers. This is where the tide needs to be turned. I have no idea how to get the message  and education out there. Exactly as Swamp ash says, being calm to get the correct info out to counter the BS. Its a problem of representation and support on these media platforms that are clearly owned by those that bleed blue it would seem.

Biden has outright said he will call on the CDC and go with calling guns a health crisis. The issue being what it grants the feds in light of state laws.

Will this happen overnight. Of course not. But as we have seen in the blue states, this is all about chipping away and playing long. But the current environment will allow the next chips to be huge chunks.

Things they will move on per their own published game plan: Assault weapon and high normal cap mags. While it has happened before, I dont know, thing feels different this time.  Where it goes after that...who knows.

Biden at least recognized when asked he cant do executive orders that make folks criminals overnight, and the political issue it would cause. That was at least hopeful. And affirms our biggest hope is he survives the next 4 years.

 

[phiferran]

I think they will try whatever they can while not jeopardizing their control at midterm elections. I look for Biden to go after what he believes is easy and will not be drastic yet. If they maintain control at midterms, all bets are off at that point. 

[Omega]

Here is my take, popularity of gun-control is for the most part over inflated, especially after all the riots and change in administration, as shown by all the new gun owners.  But, now that they have full control of the election process, and there is no agency to challenge that, it does not matter what the people want, they will pass whatever "laws" they want and dare the courts to go against them.  Yesterday's events are a mere peek at what we may have ahead of us, and until we instill a sense of fear into our "elected" leaders, this will not end well, for any of us, left or right.

[TGO David]

2 hours ago, Erik88 said:

They have a tiny majority in the Senate. Razor Thin. I believe it's very unlikely that each Democrat will sign on to major gun control. For democratic senators in red states it would be a death sentence for their career. Let's be honest, they care about saying in the Senate more than ANYTHING else. 

This assumes that all Republicans vote against.  We know that isn't likely to be true.  Politicians do whatever they can to preserve their jobs.  The easiest way to do that is to make their constituents feel like they are being well-represented.  If a Republican feels like it is in the best interest of his or her continued paycheck to support anti-2A legislation, guess what they're going to do.

Thinking that it matters who has the majority when the margin is as slim as it is, is dangerous.

 

[Mike1000]

One thing is for sure, if Biden pushes gun control now it makes a mockery of his healing and unity messaging.

[Links2k]

I think covid, the economy, infrastructure and getting kids back in school will the biggest things on Biden’s plate. I don’t believe they will have time to even consider gun control measures prior to mid terms unless there is a mass shooting. 

[Erik88]

17 minutes ago, Links2k said:

I think covid, the economy, infrastructure and getting kids back in school will the biggest things on Biden’s plate. I don’t believe they will have time to even consider gun control measures prior to mid terms unless there is a mass shooting. 

That's true. One thing I keep coming back to is that Congress has barely passed anything meaningful the past 4 years. Seriously, aside from the Tax Cuts and the COVID spending bills, there has been very little done. Prior to that the biggest item was what? Obamacare? They are so freaking dysfunctional that it's hard for them to pass ANYTHING. 

[TGO David]

29 minutes ago, Mike1000 said:

One thing is for sure, if Biden pushes gun control now it makes a mockery of his healing and unity messaging.

It will only feel that way to gun owners.  To those who think guns are the problem, it will feel like healing and unity.  It's all about perspective.

[FUJIMO]

28 minutes ago, TGO David said:

It will only feel that way to gun owners.  To those who think guns are the problem, it will feel like healing and unity.  It's all about perspective.

I share this viewpoint. Just like the feeling that at this moment its hard to tell a difference in parties. Some are gonna be upset by that, others are rejoicing . What better moment for a "lets come together 9/11 esque" moment than to once and for all ban these evil weapons that have assaulted our children, our loved ones, shattered lives,etc.. Let's start a new administration,  a new America,  with doing the right thing and banning those (insert demonic rhetoric here) and start to heal with growth and hope and change. Or something like that

[krunchnik]

3 hours ago, Erik88 said:

I have been reading some variation of this statement on TGO for over a decade. I cannot spend every day worrying about something I have zero control over. They have a tiny majority in the Senate. Razor Thin. I believe it's very unlikely that each Democrat will sign on to major gun control. For democratic senators in red states it would be a death sentence for their career. Let's be honest, they care about saying in the Senate more than ANYTHING else. 

The more likely scenario is some form of executive order which I believe would be taken to SCOTUS. 

This is the very gist of a conversation with my son this very morning-100% agree.

We have listened to Democrat's threaten our Constitutional rights for more years than I can remember-many

It gets downright sickening to even hear these anti's spout their anti American vitriol.

[JunkiCosmonaut]

I think If we are to see gun control in the next few years it will be aimed at peripherals as to not throw the frog in boiling water. You'll see: ban on buying ammunition from the internet/ammunition has to go through ffl, ban on private sales, the atf will expand legal definitions and strangle out fringe groups in the firearms community. I would think it would reach a crescendo with a massive tax on all ammunition to make it cost prohibitive. 

Keep in mind that action taken against that guys 80% receiver today will just creep into something that effects you tomorrow. There is no "ok we're done the world is safe" 

My dad always said the most dangerous weapon to the anti-gunner is the cheap .22 rifle because thats how children are introduced and grow up to be fully active in the gun community. I think they'll look at it as a multi-generational effort. How do you keep the next generation away from wanting to own firearms. 

[TGO David]

14 minutes ago, krunchnik said:

This is the very gist of a conversation with my son this very morning-100% agree.

We have listened to Democrat's threaten our Constitutional rights for more years than I can remember-many

It gets downright sickening to even hear these anti's spout their anti American vitriol.

Here's what you guys all need to consider:

The fact that they keep saying a thing doesn't mean they don't mean the thing and won't execute their plan to destroy the 2A and disarm America.  It doesn't mean they aren't committed to that goal.  It just means they haven't been able to successfully pull it off yet.  Do NOT become complacent or dismissive of it. 

They have told you what they want to do.  They are in it for the long haul.  We have to be equally committed and not let boredom or arrogance cause us to let our guard drop.  As soon as we do, they will pounce and it will unravel quickly.  Mark my words.

 

I am a nutjob, I guess, because I think powers-that-be orchestrated the theft of the 2020 election.  I don't love Trump and I think he is a toxic personality.  Four more years of him might have been the death of America also.  He might have become the next Vladamir Putin, never leaving office, just changing the rules of the game to keep him in power regardless of title.  But Biden and Harris absolutely represent a voter base that wants to see America become a socialist country.

When I look at how the 2020 election unfolded, I don't see one tactic being used against Trump or the GOP.  I see a staggering array of tactics used.  If I am correct, "they" threw everything they had against the wall to see what would work.  They even threw things at the wall that would have previously never dared be used in the light of day, because they figured that there was enough hatred for Trump that even if the public noticed, the public wouldn't care.  The public would say that the end justified the means.

And here we are.  A ridiculous number of things seemed to be effective and perhaps it was success through asymmetry:  No one thing alone would have worked, but a combination of crazily disparate things did because people couldn't comprehend what was going on and therefore dismissed it as an impossibility.

 

If I am right about that, you'll see that tactic used to destroy the 2A and disarm America.

 

[krunchnik]

I am definitely not giving up or in-I think I am going to concentrate more on local politics where a person is able to make more of a difference.

But still support the different 2nd Amendment Association's-