16 December 2020 - ATF Making More Moves Against Pistol Braces

[AuEagle]

5 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I just want to point out that when others talked about defending the police they were ridiculed but once it hits an issue conservatives care about it's a good idea. 

Guess who will enforce new gun laws.

These people:

 

 

 

What are you talking about?

Conservatives & Patriots have always thought the atf should be abolished. 

What's defending cops? 

Do you mean defund cops? That'll work out real well...

[Erik88]

8 minutes ago, AuEagle said:

What's defending cops?

Sorry, made a typo there. I meant to put defunding. Do you think that gun laws will just disappear if the ATF is abolished? Someone else will just pick up the torch and run with it. Now, I would be thrilled if the ATF was gone but it will never happen. 

Going back to my earlier point, the very police folks are so quick to defend will be the ones enforcing said laws. 

[AuEagle]

1 minute ago, Erik88 said:

Sorry, made a typo there. I meant to put defunding. Do you think that gun laws will just disappear if the ATF is abolished? Someone else will just pick up the torch and run with it. Now, I would be thrilled if the ATF was gone but it will never happen. 

Going back to my earlier point, the very police folks are so quick to defend will be the ones enforcing said laws. 

No, but getting rid of a corrupt 3 letter is a start.

I guess each will have to choose their response to those who would trample on their God given rights.

[Randall53]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

Sorry, made a typo there. I meant to put defunding. Do you think that gun laws will just disappear if the ATF is abolished? Someone else will just pick up the torch and run with it. Now, I would be thrilled if the ATF was gone but it will never happen. 

Going back to my earlier point, the very police folks are so quick to defend will be the ones enforcing said laws. 

Going back to your earlier point, many sheriffs in many counties across the country have publically said they would NOT be a part of enforcing gun confiscation nor any un-constitutional laws illegally passed and actually many states, mostly conservative ones, have passed 2nd amendment sanctuary laws. I think the ATF will be the enforcing agency to abolish gun rights if it gets that far and confiscation on the federal level. The ATF and defunding police is not even remotely the same thing.

[FUJIMO]

57 minutes ago, Randall53 said:

Going back to your earlier point, many sheriffs in many counties across the country have publically said they would NOT be a part of enforcing gun confiscation nor any un-constitutional laws illegally passed and actually many states, mostly conservative ones, have passed 2nd amendment sanctuary laws. I think the ATF will be the enforcing agency to abolish gun rights if it gets that far and confiscation on the federal level. The ATF and defunding police is not even remotely the same thing.

I'm in a 2a sanctuary as well as a county where the sheriff's dept released a statement in April before the first mandate stating they would NOT enforce any mandate that trampled their citizens rights or personal freedoms. 

[AuEagle]

6 minutes ago, FUJIMO said:

I'm in a 2a sanctuary as well as a county where the sheriff's dept released a statement in April before the first mandate stating they would NOT enforce any mandate that trampled their citizens rights or personal freedoms. 

#metoo, County & City.

[DaveTN]

Lets be realistic. Whether someone agrees with it or not; your local Police or County Sherriff has zero ability to protect anyone from Federal agents of the ATF. That’s just a fact. Sure they can tell their Officers to not arrest anyone on weapons charges, but that doesn’t help when its not their Officers doing the cuffing and stuffing.

Never underestimate the enemy.

An Officer, Deputy, Chief or Sherriff may have a different opinion when they are facing Federal charges or facing losing their jobs.

[Garufa]

1 hour ago, Randall53 said:

Going back to your earlier point, many sheriffs in many counties across the country have publically said they would NOT be a part of enforcing gun confiscation nor any un-constitutional laws illegally passed and actually many states, mostly conservative ones, have passed 2nd amendment sanctuary laws. I think the ATF will be the enforcing agency to abolish gun rights if it gets that far and confiscation on the federal level. The ATF and defunding police is not even remotely the same thing.

 

36 minutes ago, FUJIMO said:

I'm in a 2a sanctuary as well as a county where the sheriff's dept released a statement in April before the first mandate stating they would NOT enforce any mandate that trampled their citizens rights or personal freedoms. 

 

29 minutes ago, AuEagle said:

#metoo, County & City.

 

[AuEagle]

1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

Lets be realistic. Whether someone agrees with it or not; your local Police or County Sherriff has zero ability to protect anyone from Federal agents of the ATF. That’s just a fact. Sure they can tell their Officers to not arrest anyone on weapons charges, but that doesn’t help when its not their Officers doing the cuffing and stuffing.

Never underestimate the enemy.

An Officer, Deputy, Chief or Sherriff may have a different opinion when they are facing Federal charges or facing losing their jobs.

Who's asking the police or sheriff to protect them?  Most know protection is a personal responsibility, police have unfortunately been made into clean up crews & revenue collectors.

If an officer, chief, or sheriff condones trampling a persons Constitutional rights to protect their job they are worthless & shouldn't be in law enforcement in the first place.

Edited December 21, 2020 by AuEagle

[FUJIMO]

31 minutes ago, Garufa said:

 

 

 

Keep in mind the 2A sanctuary for most of the counties around here was passed over a year ago. So this wasn't a knee jerk reaction to jo&ho, rona, or gvt overreach by unchecked AholesTooFar.

[FUJIMO]

1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

Lets be realistic. Whether someone agrees with it or not; your local Police or County Sherriff has zero ability to protect anyone from Federal agents of the ATF. That’s just a fact. Sure they can tell their Officers to not arrest anyone on weapons charges, but that doesn’t help when its not their Officers doing the cuffing and stuffing.

Never underestimate the enemy.

An Officer, Deputy, Chief or Sherriff may have a different opinion when they are facing Federal charges or facing losing their jobs.

IMO when it gets to the level you're describing its us and them. You're on one side or the other. If you're OK with them coming in and doing as they please any old time then god speed and good luck to ya. 

[Garufa]

Just now, FUJIMO said:

Keep in mind the 2A sanctuary for most of the counties around here was passed over a year ago. So this wasn't a knee jerk reaction to jo&ho, rona, or gvt overreach by unchecked AholesTooFar.

I fully understand that and also know it doesn’t mean a whole lot.  The local sheriff not abiding by federal mandates is not going to stop the feds from coming in and doing as they please.

It is also noteworthy that a huge percentage of this country lives under the purview of unelected, appointed police chiefs who serve at the pleasure of the local mayor and city council.

[FUJIMO]

1 minute ago, Garufa said:

I fully understand that and also know it doesn’t mean a whole lot.  The local sheriff not abiding by federal mandates is not going to stop the feds from coming in and doing as they please.

It is also noteworthy that a huge percentage of this country lives under the purview of unelected, appointed police chiefs who serve at the pleasure of the local mayor and city council.

I'm not disputing that. I wanted to stress the point local PD won't be waiting for orders from the fed go kick in doors of their friends and neighbors. Many here and abroad think all sheriffs dept everywhere are just as excited as the antigunners to disarm the gun owners.

[Garufa]

15 minutes ago, FUJIMO said:

I'm not disputing that. I wanted to stress the point local PD won't be waiting for orders from the fed go kick in doors of their friends and neighbors. Many here and abroad think all sheriffs dept everywhere are just as excited as the antigunners to disarm the gun owners.

Right.  The point is many do not understand the difference between PD and Sheriff deputies.  They are all cops but have very different bosses and in many cases, agendas.

The sheriff has great leeway in saying “I will not comply”,  the chief of police does not.  Deputies and PD officers may or may not depending on how they want their lives to go.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Garufa

[Randall53]

1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

Lets be realistic. Whether someone agrees with it or not; your local Police or County Sherriff has zero ability to protect anyone from Federal agents of the ATF. That’s just a fact. Sure they can tell their Officers to not arrest anyone on weapons charges, but that doesn’t help when its not their Officers doing the cuffing and stuffing.

Never underestimate the enemy.

An Officer, Deputy, Chief or Sherriff may have a different opinion when they are facing Federal charges or facing losing their jobs.

What you are saying is true, but my point was that defunding police and defunding the ATF are two separate animals. I think the topic to a post was that conservatives were against defunding police but now, they are for defunding the ATF which was the same thing. It’s not at all. Police protect and serve our communities from criminals, thieves and those that want to do harm to law abiding citizens. The ATF is the hammer used to enforce alcohol, tobacco and firearms laws and regulations of the feds. Maybe I’m wrong but totally different in my mind. 

[Daniel]

42 minutes ago, FUJIMO said:

IMO when it gets to the level you're describing its us and them. You're on one side or the other. If you're OK with them coming in and doing as they please any old time then god speed and good luck to ya. 

I mean we all saw the video of the old woman getting tackled during Katrina right?
 

 

[FUJIMO]

7 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I mean we all saw the video of the old woman getting tackled during Katrina right?
 

 

Never saw that one. My first thought was the ol gal shouldn't have chosen THAT moment in time to pull out great pappys pearl handled heater

[E4 No More]

2 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Lets be realistic. Whether someone agrees with it or not; your local Police or County Sherriff has zero ability to protect anyone from Federal agents of the ATF. That’s just a fact. Sure they can tell their Officers to not arrest anyone on weapons charges, but that doesn’t help when its not their Officers doing the cuffing and stuffing.

Never underestimate the enemy.

An Officer, Deputy, Chief or Sherriff may have a different opinion when they are facing Federal charges or facing losing their jobs.

Since when did a local law-enforcement official become required to enforce federal law? 

[E4 No More]

1 hour ago, AuEagle said:

Who's asking the police or sheriff to protect them?  Most know protection is a personal responsibility, police have unfortunately been made into clean up crews & revenue collectors.

If an officer, chief, or sheriff condones trampling a persons Constitutional rights to protect their job they are worthless & shouldn't be in law enforcement in the first place.

They also would open their selves to huge lawsuits. I doubt that they'd want the liability,

[E4 No More]

1 hour ago, Garufa said:

I fully understand that and also know it doesn’t mean a whole lot.  The local sheriff not abiding by federal mandates is not going to stop the feds from coming in and doing as they please.

It is also noteworthy that a huge percentage of this country lives under the purview of unelected, appointed police chiefs who serve at the pleasure of the local mayor and city council.

They may be unelected and appointed, but they nor the city they serve want to lose lawsuits.

[Erik88]

2 hours ago, Randall53 said:

What you are saying is true, but my point was that defunding police and defunding the ATF are two separate animals. I think the topic to a post was that conservatives were against defunding police but now, they are for defunding the ATF which was the same thing. It’s not at all. Police protect and serve our communities from criminals, thieves and those that want to do harm to law abiding citizens. The ATF is the hammer used to enforce alcohol, tobacco and firearms laws and regulations of the feds. Maybe I’m wrong but totally different in my mind. 

I don't think it's really that different. Their day to day functions may be different but they are all law enforcement. 

If the right people starting pushing local law enforcement to enforce gun laws it would happen. Look how certain departments are getting told what to do already. I guarantee the individual cops hate it, but they are falling in line. 

So defunding to the ATF doesn't seem much different to me. The only difference is the motivation behind it. Just my .02

 

[DaveTN]

10 hours ago, E4 No More said:

Since when did a local law-enforcement official become required to enforce federal law? 

They aren’t and I didn’t say that or imply it. You know yourself that if the Feds want to make an arrest on a weapons violation; they will do it. With or without the help of local law enforcement.

Using discretion in what they will/won’t make arrests on is something very different from obstructing Federal Agents.

11 hours ago, FUJIMO said:

I'm not disputing that. I wanted to stress the point local PD won't be waiting for orders from the fed go kick in doors of their friends and neighbors. Many here and abroad think all sheriffs dept everywhere are just as excited as the antigunners to disarm the gun owners.

I also wasn’t talking about kicking in doors or violating Constitutional Rights. If the Feds are coming to your house on Federal weapons charges; they will have a warrant.

I’ve said before that cops or feds won’t be involved in large scale confiscation. But after what I saw this year with coward cops standing down while businesses were being burned and innocent citizens being brutality attacked and even killed; anything can happen. Especially with people like Biden/Harris in charge.

[DaveTN]

12 hours ago, Garufa said:

The sheriff has great leeway in saying “I will not comply”,  the chief of police does not. 

And that’s a big problem. But I believe that while a Police Chief may have to take lawful orders from a Mayor or City Council they can’t hide behind that when the orders are unlawful. I believe the failure to act by Chiefs, Sheriff’s and even Officers and Deputies was criminal acts. However, when there is no one to hold them legally accountable; I guess they can do whatever they like.

[RED333]

39 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

But after what I saw this year with coward cops standing down while businesses were being burned and innocent citizens being brutality attacked and even killed; anything can happen.

This is what I remember the most!!!

[E4 No More]

1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

They aren’t and I didn’t say that or imply it. You know yourself that if the Feds want to make an arrest on a weapons violation; they will do it. With or without the help of local law enforcement.

Using discretion in what they will/won’t make arrests on is something very different from obstructing Federal Agents.

OK, I misunderstood you.