Breaking! ATF Has Just Raided Polymer80 : Records Seized!

[Smith]

31 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

I don't pretend to know a lot about what Polymer80 was selling or about the raid. Did watch the video. For discussion lets give Polymer80 the benefit of the doubt and say they thought they were within the law selling the kits. So why do a raid. Why not just visit the company, work with them and come up with a solution. Even it would be "Hey you can't sell these anymore without a background check. They have to be serialized etc. I doubt Polymer80 is a huge "Threat to Society". Why raid? Just a thought.

To put a legal business out of business. If you can't get what you want legally, use what you got. A raid doesn't have to produce evidence of crime, It only has to intimidate and scare potential customers off. ATF headache solved.

[papa61]

Quote

On 12/11/2020 at 3:58 PM, JunkiCosmonaut said:

I'm like dr. Seuss I make it up as I go along, but yes you are pro regulation. Thats against free ownership. Call it what you want. Its like going to a car forum and arguing for tighter emissions standards. 

 

I agreed with you up until the last statement, As a pro car nut, not supporting some emission standards would be calling for the end of the automobile. Restrictions on firearms are unconstitutional. I could write a book on this but I will be brief. The bump stock ban should never have been allowed. To me they are worthless, but, shall not be means shall not be. I am reminded of the prose from the Hitler era. "when they came for me there was no one left to stand"

Edited December 13, 2020 by papa61
misspelling, poor punctuation

[RED333]

53 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

Even it would be "Hey you can't sell these anymore without a background check. They have to be serialized etc. I doubt Polymer80 is a huge "Threat to Society". Why raid? Just a thought.

MONEY!!! as in fines

[papa61]

RED333 - Something more important to the gun grabbers,,,names, customer list, addresses. the fines will be nothing.

[JunkiCosmonaut]

48 minutes ago, papa61 said:

I agreed with you up until the last statement, As a pro car nut, not supporting some emission standards would be calling for the end of the automobile. 

I, admittedly, don't know enough about it. I just thought it was a good analogy at the time. Ill look more into it.

[papa61]

actually a very good analogy. I used to agree with it 100%. Now I want an all electric or very efficient hybrid for the weekdays so I can run the fossil fuels on the weekend. No further tangent from the subject. thank you for your attention.
by the way, just noticed your location,,,that's hilarious!

[ReeferMac]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/08/13/make-a-factory-quality-9mm-rifled-barrel-in-your-kitchen-using-salt-water-and-electricity-ecm/

 

I found this interesting in just how they're cutting the barrel, but the larger project its a part of is a perfect example of what 3D printing can ddo.Printed receiver, mags, and a DIY metal barrel. You can make your own little machine gun today, totally unregistered.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by ReeferMac

[Chucktshoes]

15 minutes ago, ReeferMac said:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/08/13/make-a-factory-quality-9mm-rifled-barrel-in-your-kitchen-using-salt-water-and-electricity-ecm/

 

I found this interesting in just how they're cutting the barrel, but the larger project its a part of is a perfect example of what 3D printing can ddo.Printed receiver, mags, and a DIY metal barrel. You can make your own little machine gun today, totally unregistered.

 

 

Can’t stop the signal. 

[Daniel]

On 12/11/2020 at 3:58 PM, JunkiCosmonaut said:

 Its like going to a car forum and arguing for tighter emissions standards. 

I’m for those. Why can’t we enjoy cars yet want them to have less impact on the environment?

Edited December 18, 2020 by Daniel

[E4 No More]

16 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I’m for those. Why can’t we enjoy cars yet want them to have less impact on the environment?

How much more impact on the environment does my truck have than the jumbo jet Pelosi uses to fly back and forth across the country on a regular basis? How big do you think my "carbon footprint" is compared to Al Gore's, Warren Buffet's, or Mark Zuckerburg's? 

It's astounding how the left wants other people to do things that they aren't willing to do their selves. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by E4 No More

[Daniel]

11 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

How much more impact on the environment does my truck have than the jumbo jet Pelosi uses to fly back and forth across the country on a regular basis? How big do you think my "carbon footprint" is compared to Al Gore's, Warren Buffet's, or Mark Zuckerburg's? 

It's astounding how the left want other people to do things that they aren't willing to do their selves. 

Ok so individually we dont have a huge impact.  Like one guy writing a letter, BUT get a whole group writing letters and you start to see a change.  If you and I buy a car that pollutes less the next time we get a new car what is that hurting?  Tesla (as an example) with their newest model created a passenger car that is on par price wise with a typical mid or small sized car.  Let's say a corolla or sentra.  Now you may not buy one of those cars but there is undoubtedly a #### load of those models on the road.  So if as time goes on people switch to a car that does not require the burning of fossil fuels to go from point A to B yet costs the same up front as one that does burn that fuel and releases carbon... why not?    Planes do release carbon.  They have been improving their fuel efficiency for decades though.  Do you know why?  Because the government said they have to do so.  Al Gore's carbon footprint is probably large compared to your's because he most likely has a larger home and travels more maybe.  Warren Buffet and Mark Zuckerberg are probably in similar situations as Al Gore.  What does that matter though?  If your neighbor dumps his trash in his yard does that mean you should?  Clearly that last example is small scale.  Scale the idea up though.  Just because China or India are currently deficient doesnt mean we shouldnt get our house in order.  I thought we were leaders?  I thought we do the hard right over the easy wrong?  It's much easier to peer pressure someone or somewhere into doing the right thing when we are doing the right thing ourselves.  

Edited December 18, 2020 by Daniel

[E4 No More]

13 hours ago, Daniel said:

Ok so individually we dont have a huge impact.  Like one guy writing a letter, BUT get a whole group writing letters and you start to see a change.  If you and I buy a car that pollutes less the next time we get a new car what is that hurting?  Tesla (as an example) with their newest model created a passenger car that is on par price wise with a typical mid or small sized car.  Let's say a corolla or sentra.  Now you may not buy one of those cars but there is undoubtedly a #### load of those models on the road.  So if as time goes on people switch to a car that does not require the burning of fossil fuels to go from point A to B yet costs the same up front as one that does burn that fuel and releases carbon... why not?    Planes do release carbon.  They have been improving their fuel efficiency for decades though.  Do you know why?  Because the government said they have to do so.  Al Gore's carbon footprint is probably large compared to your's because he most likely has a larger home and travels more maybe.  Warren Buffet and Mark Zuckerberg are probably in similar situations as Al Gore.  What does that matter though?  If your neighbor dumps his trash in his yard does that mean you should?  Clearly that last example is small scale.  Scale the idea up though.  Just because China or India are currently deficient doesnt mean we shouldnt get our house in order.  I thought we were leaders?  I thought we do the hard right over the easy wrong?  It's much easier to peer pressure someone or somewhere into doing the right thing when we are doing the right thing ourselves.  

First off, it's outright hypocrisy. That's something the left is fantastic at. 

Second, think of how many lessor individuals it takes to off-set the carbon footprint of just one of the rich and powerful, and then multiply it by the number of rich and powerful in the world. Why should we allow ourselves to be treated as lessor people? What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.

Third, I don't want a damned electric car that can't make a substantial drive without having to be charged up. I don't like burning inferior fuel so that I have to use more fuel to go the same distance.

Forth, to generate the power for those electric vehicles you have to burn coal/pollute the environment by other means. Example of the latter: the blades of the windmill turbines cannot be recycled so they are buried in the ground, or the batteries that you have to replace every few years.

Fifth, it does NOT cost the same as gas vehicles to produce, hence the outrageous cost of electric vehicles.

Sixth, what good is pissing on your house fire, or using a teaspoon to bail the water out of the Titanic? That's exactly what your last point is doing.

If you want to ride a skateboard to work to make yourself feel better then that's up to you, but don't go expecting me to feel the same way.

PS: Unless you've actually been to China or India, you really have no idea of the magnitude of their pollution.

Edited December 19, 2020 by E4 No More

[DaveTN]

They make skate boards with training wheels?

[JunkiCosmonaut]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

I’m for those. Why can’t we enjoy cars yet want them to have less impact on the environment?

Admittedly its a bad example, @papa61 pointed out the flaws to me in that point not long ago. I think a better example may be....or maybe isnt....going onto a car forum and wanting to restrict the ability of an individual to own a car that outputs over 200HP or can go over 80mph. Youre probably gonna run into some strong strong objections. Also cars aren't protected under the constitution so thats also a factor i neglect in my rough analogy. Like i said its not very good. 

With regard to legislation on constructing your own firearms..... the point in contention is the "80%" arms industry and if they are too easy for a person to make a firearm with. I would think it would be useful for the law to define exactly. With current context, what is "too easy" when it comes to a "80%" kit. Just get that out of the way. If the glock kits they were selling were "too easy" just go ahead, draw that line and leave people to it. But with the ATF tomorrow my pink socks could be NFA items so who knows.

[JunkiCosmonaut]

37 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

 

Forth, to generate the power for those electric vehicles you have to burn coal/pollute the environment by other means. Example of the latter: the blades of the windmill turbines cannot be recycled so they are buried in the ground, or the batteries that you have to replace every few years.

 

Off topic: This is really important when looking at electric vehicles. You produce the electricity with coal fire, you then send it to charging station, you charge a battery. Major losses at each point. In a lot of cases the internal combustion engine of the car is more efficient at producing power than the process of making it and transmitting it and storing it in a battery. I also tend to beleive that regulations outright banning internal combustion tend to negatively impact the poor the most. 

[Daniel]

1 minute ago, JunkiCosmonaut said:

Off topic: This is really important when looking at electric vehicles. You produce the electricity with coal fire, you then send it to charging station, you charge a battery. Major losses at each point. In a lot of cases the internal combustion engine of the car is more efficient at producing power than the process of making it and transmitting it and storing it in a battery. I also tend to beleive that regulations outright banning internal combustion tend to negatively impact the poor the most. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coal-fired_power_stations_in_the_United_States

"In 2019 there were 241 coal powered units across the United States^[1] which generated 23% of the United States electricity in 2019,^[2] an amount of electricity similar to that from renewable energy or nuclear power^[3][4] but about half of the amount natural gas generates. Installed capacity was about 236 GW.^[5] Coal plants have been closing at a fast rate since the 2010s due to cheaper and cleaner natural gas and renewables, however, some remain profitable because costs to other people due to the health and environmental impact of the coal industry (estimated to average 5 cents per kWh^[6][7]) is not priced into the cost of generation. Some coal plants are considering only operating during periods of higher electricity demand, from December to February (winter) and from June to August (summer).^[8]"

[peejman]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

Tesla (as an example) with their newest model created a passenger car that is on par price wise with a typical mid or small sized car.  Let's say a corolla or sentra

The Tesla Model 3 ($40k) is anywhere from 2-4 times the cost of a Corolla ($20k) or Sentra ($15k), assuming you can find one. 

 

Planes do release carbon.  They have been improving their fuel efficiency for decades though.  Do you know why?  Because the government said they have to do so.  

Jet engine companies improve fuel efficiency because their customers (the airlines) demand it. Jet fuel is the airline's single biggest expense.  There are currently no federal fuel efficiency requirements for commercial aircraft. 

 

 

[Daniel]

14 minutes ago, peejman said:

The Tesla Model 3 ($40k) is anywhere from 2-4 times the cost of a Corolla ($20k) or Sentra ($15k), assuming you can find one. 

 

 

 

Jet engine companies improve fuel efficiency because their customers (the airlines) demand it. Jet fuel is the airline's single biggest expense.  There are currently no federal fuel efficiency requirements for commercial aircraft. 

 

 

 Not the model 3. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/9/22/21450916/tesla-battery-pack-elon-musk-price-kilowatt-hour-ev-cost-tabless

 

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 Not the model 3. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/9/22/21450916/tesla-battery-pack-elon-musk-price-kilowatt-hour-ev-cost-tabless

 

I did misremember the availability vs reality that he is projecting the cost. 

[Chucktshoes]

4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 Not the model 3. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/9/22/21450916/tesla-battery-pack-elon-musk-price-kilowatt-hour-ev-cost-tabless

 

That article lists the price of the Mode 3 as being between $37-55k. 
 

So, I’m confused by what you are meaning? 
 

*Just saw your next post. Nevermind. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Chucktshoes

[No_0ne]

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I did misremember the availability vs reality that he is projecting the cost. 

Elon Musk has a long history of making rosy projections that don't pan out.  I works wonderfully well to raise his stock prices, but real world experiences don't typically come anywhere close to his projections ...

[JunkiCosmonaut]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coal-fired_power_stations_in_the_United_States

"In 2019 there were 241 coal powered units across the United States^[1] which generated 23% of the United States electricity in 2019,^[2] an amount of electricity similar to that from renewable energy or nuclear power^[3][4] but about half of the amount natural gas generates. Installed capacity was about 236 GW.^[5] Coal plants have been closing at a fast rate since the 2010s due to cheaper and cleaner natural gas and renewables, however, some remain profitable because costs to other people due to the health and environmental impact of the coal industry (estimated to average 5 cents per kWh^[6][7]) is not priced into the cost of generation. Some coal plants are considering only operating during periods of higher electricity demand, from December to February (winter) and from June to August (summer).^[8]"

I'm aware of the various percentage of shares that various generation methods take up in the power production industry. Coal, although it does not make up the largest portion its still a close second to natural gas. If you want electric cars youre gonna have more coal plants. Neuclear is the best option. But natural gas is a close second to nuclear. Or rather I should say more coal burned at existing coal plants.

[Garufa]

What about Polymer80?  You know, the entire reason this thread exists.

Off the rails again.  

Edited December 19, 2020 by Garufa

[JunkiCosmonaut]

12 minutes ago, Garufa said:

What about Polymer80?  You know, the entire reason this thread exists.

Off the rails again.

Were gonna take all the polymer 80s and burn them to make electricity to power our tesla model 3s. This forum is where history is made and the technology of the future is birthed to humanity. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by JunkiCosmonaut
Pictures

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, JunkiCosmonaut said:

I'm aware of the various percentage of shares that various generation methods take up in the power production industry. Coal, although it does not make up the largest portion its still a close second to natural gas. If you want electric cars youre gonna have more coal plants. Neuclear is the best option. But natural gas is a close second to nuclear. Or rather I should say more coal burned at existing coal plants.

Looks like in 3 years Coal lost 7%.  Nuclear energy with Hydro, wind, and solar I think is where we should be going.  Im not an expert though.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Daniel