Breaking! ATF Has Just Raided Polymer80 : Records Seized!

[Darrell]

I wasn't even aware of the "buy build shoot" kits until I read this thread. I was aware of the 80% lower kits and even did a little research on their legality. Everything I read said that it's totally legal to buy one of those 80% lowers, which the BATF did not classify as a firearm, and complete it oneself. And no serial number is required, even if it's sold later. (Though it would have to be serialized if sold through a dealer in order to complete the paperwork.)

Having looked now at the BBS kits, and trying to be objective about it, I can understand Magiccarpet's position that those shouldn't be available. I don't agree with that position, though. If it's perfectly legal for me to machine my own handgun from a chunk of billet aluminum, why shouldn't it be just as legal for me to do a little finish machining on an item that's mostly complete? In other words, why should it be that only a skilled machinist should be able to take advantage of being able to build a firearm at home? There's nothing that makes a skilled machinist any more trustworthy than a guy like me, who has minimal machining skills. So as I see it, it either should be legal to build your own firearm or not. 

And even though I understand Magiccarpet's position, the problem with agreeing to "sensible" restrictions on guns is that as soon as that new restriction is in place it becomes the new standard. And the anti-gun folks begin working on the next "sensible" restriction. The anti-gunners will NEVER be satisfied so long as Americans are free to own anything beyond a basic bolt-action hunting rifle or a pump shotgun. And perhaps not then. So any concession on the part of gun-owners is only advancing the anti-gunner position. A right once lost is very difficult to regain.

[DaveTN]

I had to laugh at this...

Quote

The ATF purchased multiple kits from the company's website, and an agent used one to build a functioning firearm in about three hours, according to the affidavit. A confidential informant working with the agency — a convicted felon with past experience with guns — was able to so in 21 minutes, the document states.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/11/us/atf-raid-ghost-gun-manufacturer-invs/index.html

Obviously convicted felons have mad gun building skills. So if you need help with your kit; try to find a convicted felon to help you. 

[Darrell]

18 minutes ago, ReeferMac said:

What scares me (not to segue), but if your eyes are open and you were exposed to this literature in HS, it is literally happening before your eyes. We were warned. Exactly as laid out in Huxleys works, too.

Vonnegut wrote "Harrison Bergeron" in 1961. For those who've not read it it concerns mandating equality of outcome by restricting those with talent. I see shades of it today.

[ReeferMac]

15 minutes ago, Darrell said:

Vonnegut wrote "Harrison Bergeron" in 1961. For those who've not read it it concerns mandating equality of outcome by restricting those with talent. I see shades of it today.

"No child left behind".

Lowered the bar so more people could grow up feeling like they're not dumbasses. SMH....

[TGO David]

1 hour ago, FUJIMO said:

I've looked at it from the opposite direction for years now. Yesterday's legal is today's illegal and poof ! you're a felon

[GlockSpock]

3 hours ago, ReeferMac said:

Bradbury covered the technique beautifully in Fahrenheit 451. Are we at War with EastAsia? Who cares, time for the 2 minutes hate everyone!

What scares me (not to segue), but if your eyes are open and you were exposed to this literature in HS, it is literally happening before your eyes. We were warned. Exactly as laid out in Huxleys works, too.

Eurasia and EastAsia as well as two minutes hate are all concepts from Orwell's 1984. Fahrenheit 451 is where they burn the books because they are offensive.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Lord I've kicked the hornet's nest (appreciate the mostly civil reactions) 

 

Alright keeping this simple:

I personally believe in background checks for all firearms at point of sale (not private person to person)

I'm not a fan of Polymer 80's build and bang kit because I do believe its just a simple perversion of the law.  (much like those "fuel filter" suppressor kits on facebook marketplace)

I do wish some of this passion was shown by the older folks here when Reagan was banning no new machine guns for civilians....still can't believe you all and the NRA rolled over for that one.

I wish some more passion was shown when Trump used executive order to ban bumpstocks after one mass shooting.

At the end of the day I guess firearms to felons doesn't really matter at all when we are experiencing a 9/11 every day in this country due to silly politics and anti-science beliefs.  When the USA is losing 3,000 per day (which we all acutely felt recently with the passing of our good friend Mikey) who cares about some gun violence that doesn't even move the needle.

[Omega]

Sometimes, you just have to make the choice.

[ReeferMac]

2 hours ago, GlockSpock said:

Eurasia and EastAsia as well as two minutes hate are all concepts from Orwell's 1984. Fahrenheit 451 is where they burn the books because they are offensive.

Ahh, thanks for correcting me!

[GlockSpock]

1 hour ago, Omega said:

Sometimes, you just have to make the choice.

The correct answer it to take both of them or if they contain powder, break them apart and sort into lines. 

[The Big Guy]

 

[Sunfish]

Buying one of these 80% deals is like leaving a trail of bread crumbs to your front door. Running your mouth about anything that requires a license or a fee collected on is going to attract unwanted attention. The wind is not in our favor at all if it ever was. I see a round up on the horizon and as stated earlier (legal today no Bueno tomorrow)   

[DaveTN]

While I agree that the anti-gunners need to go, what would Trump firing them do besides give them a months vacation? If they are anti-gunners Biden would reinstate them out of spite.

The Pistol Brace ruling by the ATF will probably be changed in January.

 

Quote

 

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/12/rogue-atf-agents-are-cracking-down-on-legal-guns-in-anticipation-of-biden-admin/#axzz6gVrFkRVN

What did change?

ATF is arbitrarily redefining firearms using interpretive guidance. Acting Director of the ATF Regina Lombardo must feel emboldened by the apparent victory of presidential candidate Joe Biden.

In November, she even began working early with the “Biden Transition Team.”

Her reported priorities? Pistol braces and 80% receivers.

But this is more than cooperating with a transition team. Lombardo has begun advancing the Biden-Harris gun control agenda during the Trump Administration!

Take action and tell President Trump to fire Acting Director of the ATF Regina Lombardo and her anti-gun subordinates responsible for this anti-Second Amendment attack on homemade firearms.

These anti-gunners have got to go!

 

 

[A.J. Holst]

On 12/11/2020 at 11:42 PM, TGO David said:

Constrict the supply of ammunition through EPA regulations and other "end runs" that make it difficult or impossible to feed the gun

Anybody notice California's recent stance on heavy metals?

Brake pads with trace copper used as a replacement for asbestos are being banned, since trace copper is a health hazard.

Should only effect the supercar owners...

They've attacked lead bullets as a health hazard, when not apply the copper rule to ammo as well?

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by A.J. Holst

[1gewehr]

We did NOT roll over in 1986!!! There were many court cases raised about this over the years.  Some were actually won in Federal District Court.  But the other courts ignored the few wins and the Supreme Court declined to comment.

The fix was in and the NRA has never been a friend to NFA owners.

The same thing happened in 1994.  The NRA rolled over after the 10 year sunset was added.  Then they claimed victory in 2004.

There are NO gun laws that are Constitutional.  Period.  Yes, I follow the laws.  The cost of not following them is much higher than I am willing to pay.  I suspect that is true of a very large number of folks.  Sadly, time is not on our side as we are getting older and the newer generations appear mostly willing to accept whatever infringements government imposes.

[A.J. Holst]

On 12/12/2020 at 8:26 AM, DaveTN said:

I had to laugh at this...

Obviously convicted felons have mad gun building skills. So if you need help with your kit; try to find a convicted felon to help you. 

I had no idea our jails and prisons had such robust industrial arts re-training opportunities.

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by A.J. Holst

[A.J. Holst]

2 minutes ago, 1gewehr said:

The fix was in and the NRA has never been a friend to NFA owners.

The same thing happened in 1994.  The NRA rolled over after the 10 year sunset was added.  Then they claimed victory in 2004

Taking away the money, power and influence, isn't the NRA, at it's core, a firearm safety and basic firearm training org?

[No_0ne]

13 minutes ago, A.J. Holst said:

Taking away the money, power and influence, isn't the NRA, at it's core, a firearm safety and basic firearm training org?

No at it's core it serves as an ATM for Wayne and his cronies ...

[Darrell]

43 minutes ago, A.J. Holst said:

Obviously convicted felons have mad gun building skills. So if you need help with your kit; try to find a convicted felon to help you.

He was probably convicted of building and selling ghost guns, eh?

[Sunfish]

If an organization allows rights and privileges to be negotiated away that didn’t belong to them to begin with what do you call it? NRA.  WC Clinton’s ought to include domestic violence arbitrarily stripped the rights of many who on the advice of counsel pled no contest to domestic violence. Welcome to the people control age and liberty is just a word in the dictionary 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Sunfish

[Chucktshoes]

[Blitzen]

I don't pretend to know a lot about what Polymer80 was selling or about the raid. Did watch the video. For discussion lets give Polymer80 the benefit of the doubt and say they thought they were within the law selling the kits. So why do a raid. Why not just visit the company, work with them and come up with a solution. Even it would be "Hey you can't sell these anymore without a background check. They have to be serialized etc. I doubt Polymer80 is a huge "Threat to Society". Why raid? Just a thought.

[TripleGGG]

9 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

I don't pretend to know a lot about what Polymer80 was selling or about the raid. Did watch the video. For discussion lets give Polymer80 the benefit of the doubt and say they thought they were within the law selling the kits. So why do a raid. Why not just visit the company, work with them and come up with a solution. Even it would be "Hey you can't sell these anymore without a background check. They have to be serialized etc. I doubt Polymer80 is a huge "Threat to Society". Why raid? Just a thought.

A raid sends a different message to EVERYONE. Same as the message sent by going after those who purchased. 

[Garufa]

16 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

I don't pretend to know a lot about what Polymer80 was selling or about the raid. Did watch the video. For discussion lets give Polymer80 the benefit of the doubt and say they thought they were within the law selling the kits. So why do a raid. Why not just visit the company, work with them and come up with a solution. Even it would be "Hey you can't sell these anymore without a background check. They have to be serialized etc. I doubt Polymer80 is a huge "Threat to Society". Why raid? Just a thought.

Because law enforcement and regulatory agencies are in the business of providing guidance via punitive measures.

[Blitzen]

14 minutes ago, TripleGGG said:

A raid sends a different message to EVERYONE. Same as the message sent by going after those who purchased. 

 

7 minutes ago, Garufa said:

Because law enforcement and regulatory agencies are in the business of providing guidance via punitive measures.

Good points! Agreed but the end result is the same. Polymer80 sells kits with background checks.