Breaking! ATF Has Just Raided Polymer80 : Records Seized!

[The Big Guy]

 

[JunkiCosmonaut]

Defund the ATF, maybe divert the funds to local LE that actually deals with the communities and crime and not violating the 2A.

Edited December 11, 2020 by JunkiCosmonaut

[DaveTN]

I don’t understand, did they not check with the BATF prior to doing this? I thought there were BATF rulings giving it the okay?

Quote

The raid target, Nevada-based Polymer80, is suspected of illegally manufacturing and distributing firearms, failing to pay taxes, shipping guns across state lines and failing to conduct background investigations, according to an application for a search warrant unsealed Thursday after the raid took place.

The probe focuses on Polymer80’s “Buy Build Shoot Kit,” which includes the parts to build a “ghost” handgun. The kit, which Polymer80 sells online, meets the definition of a firearm, ATF investigators determined according to the warrant application. That means it would have to be stamped with a serial number and couldn’t be sold to consumers who haven’t first passed a background check.

However…. there is always this…

Quote

 

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/rulings

ATF publishes rulings and procedures to promote uniform understanding and application of the laws and regulations it administers, and to provide uniform methods for performing operations in compliance with the requirements of the law and regulations. 

Rulings represent ATF’s guidance as to the application of the law and regulations to the entire state of facts involved, and apply retroactively unless otherwise indicated. 

Rulings do not have the force and effect of federal statutes or Department of Justice regulations, but may be cited and relied upon as precedents in the disposition of similar cases. 

In applying published rulings, the effect of subsequent legislation, regulations, court decisions, and other rulings must be considered. 

Concerned parties are cautioned against reaching the same conclusions in other cases unless the facts and circumstances are substantially the same

 

 

[JunkiCosmonaut]

There was a company that made 80% receivers back around 2014 or so that placed a nylon plug in the trigger/firecontrol group pocket. The ATF ruled that because the nylon couldn't be easily removed it wasn't a firearm. Then a year later raided the place because they decided, in a wild hair moment, that they were too easy to turn into a firearm. Based on the video it looks like the pistol kits were the problem but I dont have any experience with the pistol kits to know what is required.

[Magiccarpetrides]

I honestly have no problem with this.  When they find out how many convicted felons and gangbangers bought these hopefully this will be the final nail in this charade.

[Defender]

28 minutes ago, Magiccarpetrides said:

I honestly have no problem with this.  When they find out how many convicted felons and gangbangers bought these hopefully this will be the final nail in this charade.

Seems to  me that felons and gangbangers have never had a real problem getting guns from other sources...

[Magiccarpetrides]

4 minutes ago, Defender said:

Seems to  me that felons and gangbangers have never had a real problem getting guns from other sources...

Good point let’s make it even easier for them and all the stalkers and domestic abusers

[The Big Guy]

27 minutes ago, Magiccarpetrides said:

Good point let’s make it even easier for them and all the stalkers and domestic abusers

This sort of thinking reminds me of my experience in public school: 1 student couldn't get their act together so the teacher forced her 20+ students to write an essay as punishment. We hadn't done anything wrong but we were punished just the same. 

[ReeferMac]

3D printers have pretty much made these moot. I'd been in the market for one if I could pay cash and not ship it. Never found one.

[TGO David]

5 hours ago, Magiccarpetrides said:

I honestly have no problem with this.  When they find out how many convicted felons and gangbangers bought these hopefully this will be the final nail in this charade.

Has that really been a prolific problem? 

 

[TGO David]

4 hours ago, The Big Guy said:

This sort of thinking reminds me of my experience in public school: 1 student couldn't get their act together so the teacher forced her 20+ students to write an essay as punishment. We hadn't done anything wrong but we were punished just the same. 

If they would just do away with the Second Amendment entirely and force us all to hand in our guns, I am sure it would correct the problem represented by these criminals with their Polymer 80s out raising hell and terrorizing the decent folks.  Then maybe Magiccarpetrides could rest easier.

 

[Magiccarpetrides]

3 minutes ago, TGO David said:

Has that really been a prolific problem? 

 

Well it only took 1 shooting to eliminate bumpstocks...compared to the amount that were out in the world I would say that ratio was pretty skewed.  I don't have any hard numbers on Polymer 80 guns but I know of plenty people here and on the interwebs that complete them and don't put a serial number on them so???

2 minutes ago, TGO David said:

If they would just do away with the Second Amendment entirely and force us all to hand in our guns, I am sure it would correct the problem represented by these criminals with their Polymer 80s out raising hell and terrorizing the decent folks.  Then maybe Magiccarpetrides could rest easier.

 

Oh wow pulling out all the snark.  Your an intelligent man please do tell who guns that are easily finished by anyone with basic tools and consisting of no serial number yet cost the same as a firearm with a serial number are marketed for?  

 

 

 

[Magiccarpetrides]

5 hours ago, The Big Guy said:

This sort of thinking reminds me of my experience in public school: 1 student couldn't get their act together so the teacher forced her 20+ students to write an essay as punishment. We hadn't done anything wrong but we were punished just the same. 

Well if your applying that spin on my argument lets all rail against the following: drinking and driving, texting and driving, most currently "illegal drugs", machine guns, rocket launchers, well the list goes on of all the things the majority could do/enjoy without harming others yet those pesky laws seek to keep us from because of a few bad apples that just can't handle the "freedom"

[The Big Guy]

I almost purchased a polymer 80 to put an old upper on. My motivation was it would be really nice to have it shipped to my house. I also like tinkering with stuff so it would make a fun project. Shucks, I guess I'll just carve one out of hardwood. 

[Magiccarpetrides]

80% firearms aren't something that have been popular until Polymer 80 came along with their "ingenious" way of skirting serialization and background checks on guns.  

[Magiccarpetrides]

1 minute ago, The Big Guy said:

I almost purchased a polymer 80 to put an old upper on. My motivation was it would be really nice to have it shipped to my house. I also like tinkering with stuff so it would make a fun project. Shucks, I guess I'll just carve one out of hardwood. 

Hey it worked in the classic "in the line of fire" with Clint Eastwood...where there's a will.....

[The Big Guy]

2 minutes ago, Magiccarpetrides said:

Well if your applying that spin on my argument lets all rail against the following: drinking and driving, texting and driving, most currently "illegal drugs", machine guns, rocket launchers, well the list goes on of all the things the majority could do/enjoy without harming others yet those pesky laws seek to keep us from because of a few bad apples that just can't handle the "freedom"

That's spin to you 

We are talking about a right not a privilege here. 

[Magiccarpetrides]

Just now, The Big Guy said:

That's spin to you 

We are talking about a right not a privilege here. 

Drinking is a right, show me where cannon and rockets aren't included in the 2nd...so thats a right, driving is a right, using a phone is a right.....please educate me on privilege 

[JunkiCosmonaut]

Why, lately, are there anti-gun people on a progun form arguing against gun rights? Did the short buss have a wreck up the street?

[Erik88]

4 hours ago, JunkiCosmonaut said:

Why, lately, are there anti-gun people on a progun form arguing against gun rights?

I wish you guys would stop this. Saying one thing doesn't make someone anti-gun. If it did, then all you Trump supporters that rolled over and took his bump stock ban up the stink-star are anti-gun.  "Take the guns first, due process later". We had folks trying to spin those words too. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Erik88

[Magiccarpetrides]

1 minute ago, JunkiCosmonaut said:

Why, lately, are there anti-gun people on a progun form arguing against gun rights? Did the short buss have a wreck up the street?

Junki...i been on here way longer than you..... we can disagree it doesn't make us antigun and I would think we could keep it mostly civil ...if your going to insult someone with short bus at least spell bus correctly 

[Magiccarpetrides]

by the way this is just a discussion forum...disagreement's are going to happen.  I don't begrudge anyone who wants to have discourse, argue, debate, etc, but can we keep things civil.  I will say how stupid an idea is to me but i'm not going to call any one of you stupid for saying it.

[JunkiCosmonaut]

6 minutes ago, Magiccarpetrides said:

Junki...i been on here way longer than you..... we can disagree it doesn't make us antigun and I would think we could keep it mostly civil ...if your going to insult someone with short bus at least spell bus correctly 

I'm like dr. Seuss I make it up as I go along, but yes you are pro regulation. Thats against free ownership. Call it what you want. Its like going to a car forum and arguing for tighter emissions standards. 

[Chucktshoes]

1st off, @Magiccarpetridesis correct. Keep it civil. Some snark is one thing, outright name calling is another. If you find you can’t resist, shut up and go elsewhere. 
 

Now, back to the meat of the discussion. 
 

@Magiccarpetrides: your comments here cause me some questions, so I’m going to ask them to you directly to ensure I am not mistaking your position. 

Americans have always been able to legally produce their own firearms, these kits do facilitate that process, but they don’t contain what is legally the firearm by law.  I do have to point out though that 80% lowers were definitely a thing before Polymer 80 came along. We have threads here on milling aluminum 80% lowers going back many years.

Your problems with Polymer 80 and others doing the same sort of business appears to be the lack of background checks and serial numbers. 
 

Do you support the outlawing of private manufacture of firearms?

Do you support the outlawing of private party sales?

Do you support universal background checks?

Do you support universal firearms registration?

If you do support any of these positions, then I would understand the objections you have raised, though my disagreement would be the same. If you don’t support these positions, then what exactly is the objection to folks buying the materials to build their own firearms? 

[The Big Guy]

 

34 minutes ago, Magiccarpetrides said:

Drinking is a right, show me where cannon and rockets aren't included in the 2nd...so thats a right, driving is a right, using a phone is a right.....please educate me on privilege 

Rights comes from god not government. If you have to get a permit i.e. drivers license you are getting permission to perform an activity that would otherwise be illegal. Permits may be revoked, rights may not be revoked. Your rights may be trampled upon, and that's the topic here.