Online classes recommendations?

[dawgdoc]

I know a few Tennesseans who have expressed interest in carrying but haven't gone any further.  Most of these people would be served well enough by the "non-enhanced" Concealed Carry Handgun Permit due to lower cost and no desire to open carry.  In my opinion, when reading the difference between the two types on the gov webpage, I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of new gun people would go the concealed only route.  The webpage  doesn't really have much of a sales pitch for the Enhanced Permit.

Does anyone have recommendations or experience with any of the online courses, especially as to usefulness for new carriers?  On the permit webpage, there is a list, but it would nice to narrow down the choices.

[chances R]

If you can't invest 8 hrs in yourself for a possible life changing event, then one shouldn't carry at all IMO.  Especially if one is a novice.

[DaveTN]

On 12/10/2020 at 4:45 PM, dawgdoc said:

I know a few Tennesseans who have expressed interest in carrying but haven't gone any further.  Most of these people would be served well enough by the "non-enhanced" Concealed Carry Handgun Permit due to lower cost and no desire to open carry.  In my opinion, when reading the difference between the two types on the gov webpage, I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of new gun people would go the concealed only route.  The webpage  doesn't really have much of a sales pitch for the Enhanced Permit.

Does anyone have recommendations or experience with any of the online courses, especially as to usefulness for new carriers?  On the permit webpage, there is a list, but it would nice to narrow down the choices.

That’s a good question. You would think they have a standardized test and cover what’s on it; but who knows. I don’t see any reviews. It looks like the prices range from around $18 to $40.

It might be good for some folks here that have been through them to review them here.

I think these are a good deal for some folks. For example, my wife has no interest in shooting or carrying. I do most of my shooting anymore in Illinois, my family has land there to shoot on. I can’t carry in Illinois, but I can have a loaded gun in my vehicle on my Tennessee permit. So, I always have to make sure if the wife takes the vehicle without me; there’s no gun in it. Depending on where we are; that could be a problem. With this permit; it wouldn’t be an issue. Then if she decides she wants to carry; I can train her, and she can then take a class and get the enhanced.

[A.J. Holst]

I agree with @chances R , for a novice, I would urge obtaining education with live instruction and live fire. You should (hopefully) receive a minimum level of instruction for operating a handgun and the basic fundamentals of safety and shooting.

A good instructor will coach a student to develop confidence and competence, the internet can't.

I do like how @DaveTN is thinking, my wife can shoot but doesn't, could carry, but won't.  Her purse could give me a pretty nice hideout...

[dawgdoc]

I personally think it is unconscionable for any state, including Tennessee, to require any training for the ability to fulfill a God-given right.  I think training is good, but the State should not require it.  Rather, if training is so vitally important, then the State should offer on its own dime in the most convenient way possible. Instead, they put that burden on the individual.   I and thousands of other Georgians obtained a Weapons Carry License without any government-mandated training.  I could easily argue that the training imparted by parents, grandparents, and knowledgeable family friends is equal or superior to that offered by a Tennessee-approved HCP course.  I believe in personal responsibility, and I think each individual should be able to decide how much training they need without government interference.

Every additional hurdle added to the process of getting a permit disproportionally affects poor people; a person should not have to forgo basic protection because they can't afford to take off a Saturday and pay extra money to satisfy a training requirement.  The Concealed Handgun Permit is a tiny step toward equalizing things for the lower income folks.  This is not theoretical; I literally know people who would like to carry but do not have a permit due to the cost (both Georgia and Tennessee residents, and it is cheaper in Georgia).

I'm not a trainer, but I could teach someone the basic function of a pistol, drill the four rules into their head, and make sure they understand the self-defense laws and prohibited places, and I would feel satisfied that they had the minimum they need.  I would encourage them to practice and train as they saw fit.  That is basically what I did with my wife.  In fact, between our range sessions, discussions of the gun laws at the dinner table, and my political advocacy, I am sure we have surpassed 8 hours of equivalent training.  However, if were Tennessee residents, that would not have been adequate until recently with the newer permit.

I understand the utility of required training, but I scoff at the infringement on personal liberty, and I feel there are much better ways to achieve the same result.  For the record, I feel the same way toward Georgia's mandated training for new drivers, also. 

I am not above compromise, if it is true compromise.  If the Enhanced Permit, for example, conferred additional benefits (such as campus carry) beyond open carrying (and if I lived in Tennessee), then I might accept the training requirement not because I think the mandated-training is actually needed, but because of the necessity of a political compromise to achieve the lifting of restrictions from a basic freedom.

[QuackerSmacker]

For the record, I feel the same way toward Georgia's mandated training for new drivers, also. 

So Dawgdoc, just to clarify, do you really believe that when a kid turns 16 they should be able to get a drivers license and then zoom down the highway, when they may have never been behind the wheel before?  Really?  Am I missing something?

[E4 No More]

16 minutes ago, QuackerSmacker said:

For the record, I feel the same way toward Georgia's mandated training for new drivers, also. 

So Dawgdoc, just to clarify, do you really believe that when a kid turns 16 they should be able to get a drivers license and then zoom down the highway, when they may have never been behind the wheel before?  Really?  Am I missing something?

Rationalizing restrictions/caveats to a right is exactly what the anti-gun crowd does.  Just say'n.

[dawgdoc]

1 hour ago, QuackerSmacker said:

For the record, I feel the same way toward Georgia's mandated training for new drivers, also. 

So Dawgdoc, just to clarify, do you really believe that when a kid turns 16 they should be able to get a drivers license and then zoom down the highway, when they may have never been behind the wheel before?  Really?  Am I missing something?

When I turned 16, that is exactly how the law was.  Freedom is dangerous.  I believe the old system worked for me and my brother--our dad voluntarily taught us how to drive and how to be safe.  The law got changed because some kid killed himself in an accident.   So his guilty parents persuaded the legislature to make sure every kid had driver education.  The goal was lofty, but the result is a joke of a requirement that barely accomplishes it and burdens the poor.  It is another example of nanny statism.

For the record, I think that when a kid turns 16, the parents should have properly prepared their child with assistance from the State, not a mandate by the State.  

[Tedro2022]

I’ll argue it from a bit of a different perspective, as I had a uniquely different experience. 

As I was taking the in person shooting portion of my test when I was getting my carry permit (many, many years ago), I had an old geezer next to me that couldn’t keep his muzzle pointed down range and kept sweeping me with it. After repeated counselings from our instructors, one of them told me: “if he muzzles you again, drop him.” Needless to say, it didn’t get to that point. I found out later that day, he hadn’t passed the written portion of his exam either. 

I tell that story because if grandpa wanted to get his permit today, what days he doesn’t have son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter take the test for him online and then start packing his gun with him where ever he goes? How many people does he put in danger? Are you all really comfortable with it being that easy? 
 

Hell yes people should have to get basic training, no matter their proficiency level. Hell yes people should get trained on what their state laws are. Hell yes people should have to get in person training!!! 
 

You can argue that people shouldn’t have to pay for it if you want, but if it’s something that is just handed out I don’t think people will take it seriously. There are plenty of instructors in the state and I’m sure if someone were financially incapable of paying their fees a simple phone call or email explaining their situation would elicit a positive response with some help to get them to where they want to go. 
 

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but folks need to prioritize things in their lives a little more. If your safety is a big enough priority for you, find a way to make yourself and your family safe. 
 

And whatever you want to argue, NO ONE has EVER had too much training. Knowledge is something we should all strive to get more of every day. 
 

-T.C.

[QuackerSmacker]

Thanks for those thoughts, Tedro2022.   I think that the required training for anything gun-related should be paid for by the state.  Yeah, meaning everybody, I guess, but that would eliminate the griping about the cost and , in these crazy days, it would  also eliminate all the noise about fees of that type being discriminatory.  

[Tedro2022]

1 hour ago, QuackerSmacker said:

Thanks for those thoughts, Tedro2022.   I think that the required training for anything gun-related should be paid for by the state.  Yeah, meaning everybody, I guess, but that would eliminate the griping about the cost and , in these crazy days, it would  also eliminate all the noise about fees of that type being discriminatory.  

How are the fees discriminatory, again? 

[Omega]

When I, and many here I suspect, got my first gun (at16), I had 0 training.  No internet, no YouTube videos, and no friends to show me.  I got through it, and haven't accidentally shot anyone, nor myself.  Yea, did some questionable things as a kid, some gun related, that now I'd never consider doing, but that was growing up back then.   Thing is, we have tried to be a nanny to all by mandating this and that, which should not be the case for ANY right, imagine needing training and licencing to exercise your 1st amendment right, people would go nuts, and arguably, you can harm more people exercising that right. 

[Tedro2022]

4 minutes ago, Omega said:imagine needing training and licencing to exercise your 1st amendment right, people would go nuts, and arguably, you can harm more people exercising that right. 

I was hoping someone would bring up another God given right that we should all be fighting to defend. That same God given right that we’re taught from Kindergarten all the way through high school (at a minimum). And some people, who want additional training in language pay, on their own dime, a college or university to gain further knowledge on the subject. See how that works, folks? 
 

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think the gubment does a good job at much of anything, but at the end of the day they have to govern to the lowest level of ignorance. Hence the reason why there are so many gun laws that are on the books. Too many people have done too many ignorant things to put those laws there. 

-T.C.

[Omega]

1 minute ago, Tedro2022 said:

I was hoping someone would bring up another God given right that we should all be fighting to defend. That same God given right that we’re taught from Kindergarten all the way through high school (at a minimum). And some people, who want additional training in language pay, on their own dime, a college or university to gain further knowledge on the subject. See how that works, folks? 
 

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think the gubment does a good job at much of anything, but at the end of the day they have to govern to the lowest level of ignorance. Hence the reason why there are so many gun laws that are on the books. Too many people have done too many ignorant things to put those laws there. 

-T.C.

Haha, so you are equating learning how to read and right to gun training?  So what minimum level of classes would you propose we have before being able to post on the internet?  I can speak Spanish too, so do I get to post on multilingual sites too?  

I agree, people do stupid things, and I've always argued that we need to get rid warning labels to let nature take it's course,  not add more labels or laws.

[chances R]

I believe in personal responsibility...so you see how that works, people won’t even do something simple like wear a mask and you think they will get firearms training ?

[DaveTN]

27 minutes ago, chances R said:

I believe in personal responsibility...so you see how that works, people won’t even do something simple like wear a mask and you think they will get firearms training ?

Yes. But training could be coming from a friend or family member that is more than qualified to teach them.

[BHunted]

On 12/10/2020 at 4:45 PM, dawgdoc said:

I know a few Tennesseans who have expressed interest in carrying but haven't gone any further.  Most of these people would be served well enough by the "non-enhanced" Concealed Carry Handgun Permit due to lower cost and no desire to open carry.  In my opinion, when reading the difference between the two types on the gov webpage, I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of new gun people would go the concealed only route.  The webpage  doesn't really have much of a sales pitch for the Enhanced Permit.

Does anyone have recommendations or experience with any of the online courses, especially as to usefulness for new carriers?  On the permit webpage, there is a list, but it would nice to narrow down the choices.

More to it not to just care about open carry. There are more differences than that. 

[Tedro2022]

10 hours ago, Omega said:

Haha, so you are equating learning how to read and right to gun training?  So what minimum level of classes would you propose we have before being able to post on the internet?  I can speak Spanish too, so do I get to post on multilingual sites too?  

I agree, people do stupid things, and I've always argued that we need to get rid warning labels to let nature take it's course,  not add more labels or laws.

Sure, it’s all basic learning. If you speak Spanish, by all means go post on a multilingual site. My Spanish is broken, so I’ll stick to sites that I can interpret. 

And I’m all about getting rid of warning labels and letting nature take its course.

[chances R]

3 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Yes. But training could be coming from a friend or family member that is more than qualified to teach them.

Key word, "COULD".  The country is much bigger than TGO.  Many first time gun owners which means in all likely hood they were not raised around other gun owners.  Literally the dumbing down of society in that regard.  There is no doubt well trained, qualified instructors will do a better job at this.  Anybody here tried to teach their wife anything, like tennis or other activities?  Professional instruction is generally better received and effective.

[chances R]

12 hours ago, Omega said:

When I, and many here I suspect, got my first gun (at16), I had 0 training.  No internet, no YouTube videos, and no friends to show me.  I got through it, and haven't accidentally shot anyone, nor myself.  Yea, did some questionable things as a kid, some gun related, that now I'd never consider doing, but that was growing up back then.   Thing is, we have tried to be a nanny to all by mandating this and that, which should not be the case for ANY right, imagine needing training and licencing to exercise your 1st amendment right, people would go nuts, and arguably, you can harm more people exercising that right. 

if not mistaken one needs a ham radio license, and take a course with some costs.

[DaveTN]

10 minutes ago, chances R said:

if not mistaken one needs a ham radio license, and take a course with some costs.

Yes, you are mistaken. No class required. You have to take a test and pay a small fee? Some people do take a class, but some study themselves without a class.

[Omega]

3 hours ago, chances R said:

if not mistaken one needs a ham radio license, and take a course with some costs.

Which is why I would use a CB radio instead.  A HAM Operators license is to use the range of freqs required to operate the radio, same if you wanted to broadcast on any restricted frequency like AM or FM, and that is to keep one from stepping on another.  

[dawgdoc]

9 hours ago, BHunted said:

More to it not to just care about open carry. There are more differences than that. 

The "Handgun Permit Types" page lists different things about each one, but the only difference seems to be open carrying and training requirements.

For example, under the Concealed Carry Permit, it says, "May not carry at any school or university (public or private)"  However, unless something has changed, you cannot do that with an Enhanced Permit either.  The implication is that you could carry there with the Enhanced Permit (and the first draft of the bill that created the new permit meant for that to happen), but I don't recall Tennessee getting campus carry in any form.

Likewise, under the Enhanced Permit, it lists, "The permit shall entitle the permittee to carry any handgun - which the permittee legally owns or possesses."  It doesn't lists this under the Concealed Carry Permit, yet the law is essentially exactly the same in this regard for the two permits.  It is confusing at best and misleading at worse (suggesting that the Enhanced Permit gives greater freedom of handgun choice than the the Concealed Permit.

According to Cunningham's Law, if I am wrong, I will soon find out the right answer, but I don't see any substantial difference between the two types of permits other than open carry and the 8-hour training requirement.  In fact, I would love to be wrong about the campus carry part, and if so, I would need to research how the reciprocity from Georgia is (i.e, which type of TN permit does my Georgia Weapons Carry License equate).

[chances R]

employees of an University may carry with the ECP.  There may be additional restrictions on reciprocity, especially after other state legislatures settle back down post Covid.  The two classes are really apples and oranges with neither being a full course meal.

[BHunted]

 

11 hours ago, dawgdoc said:

 

According to Cunningham's Law, if I am wrong, I will soon find out the right answer, but I don't see any substantial difference between the two types of permits other than open carry and the 8-hour training requirement.  In fact, I would love to be wrong about the campus carry part, and if so, I would need to research how the reciprocity from Georgia is (i.e, which type of TN permit does my Georgia Weapons Carry License equate).

Correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of states will not grant reciprocity.... big plus having that. Be damned if I can find a link mentioning it.

Edited December 17, 2020 by BHunted