Help! TICS/TBI Denied - UPDATE ***OVERTURNED***

[robin48]

13 hours ago, ACfixer said:

Thank you Robin, any details as to the reason for denial or what the final outcome was?

It was overturned on appeal and he was able to purchase. 

[ACfixer]

10 hours ago, robin48 said:

It was overturned on appeal and he was able to purchase. 

Thank you Robin, and everyone else that has added to the thread... seriously appreciated. I can't remember a time when I have felt so dejected in the last several years, it's really getting me down. Everything we do has consequences, but you kind of figure after all these years (or whatever is holding this up) that you've paid your debt and are among free citizens. I moved from CA to TN to escape government oppressiveness, but jeeeeze even CA never denied me the right to purchase a firearm. This just isn't something I expected in my wildest dreams after moving to the volunteer state which was a dream for me since I rode through here in the motorcycle in 2007.  

[robin48]

13 hours ago, ACfixer said:

Thank you Robin, and everyone else that has added to the thread... seriously appreciated. I can't remember a time when I have felt so dejected in the last several years, it's really getting me down. Everything we do has consequences, but you kind of figure after all these years (or whatever is holding this up) that you've paid your debt and are among free citizens. I moved from CA to TN to escape government oppressiveness, but jeeeeze even CA never denied me the right to purchase a firearm. This just isn't something I expected in my wildest dreams after moving to the volunteer state which was a dream for me since I rode through here in the motorcycle in 2007.  

Just cheer up and hang in there I bet it gets overturned

[ACfixer]

Well day 11 and still no info, this is no fun at all. My fear is a "conditional proceed" in which my FFL will probably say no to. So I have this beautiful 1970 Colt Commander sitting in his safe that I already paid for through Gunbroker. No clue what to do from there... jeeeze.

[DaveTN]

20 minutes ago, ACfixer said:

Well day 11 and still no info, this is no fun at all. My fear is a "conditional proceed" in which my FFL will probably say no to. So I have this beautiful 1970 Colt Commander sitting in his safe that I already paid for through Gunbroker. No clue what to do from there... jeeeze.

They only have 15 days. Have you called the dealer? If its approved, or conditional, I believe you have a limited amount of time to act before having to do it again.

He can’t keep the gun, so unless you make some kind of arrangements, it will get sent back to the shipping FFL.

Time is not on your side.

[ACfixer]

32 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

They only have 15 days. Have you called the dealer? If its approved, or conditional, I believe you have a limited amount of time to act before having to do it again.

He can’t keep the gun, so unless you make some kind of arrangements, it will get sent back to the shipping FFL.

Time is not on your side.

I called the dealer last week on day 7 Dave, hate to keep bugging the guy. I asked him how TICS would notify him and he didn't really seem to know. He's an extremely nice guy and sympathetic to the situation, but he's a rather new (April '19) FFL and I am sure really cautious and unsure how to handle it.

Is it 15 days from the transaction date or the day they start the appeal? I FAX'd it to them that night, also sent it by snail mail just in case. Yeah I am aware by day 30 the 4473 is no longer valid and would have to try again... and what get denied again right? Or maybe not I suppose. Really frustrating.

[ACfixer]

Well my FFL just called me and I got all excited... for naught.

He called TICS today and they told him they have 15 days and they are "still working on this one" but it could be longer... you guessed it, because of COVID.

My FFL did say however he would give me the gun if he gets a "conditional proceed" so that's a positive I guess.

[ACfixer]

UPDATE - Denial overturned. Happy, yes of course... but WTF right?

FFL said when I swing by to pick up my unfired 1970 Colt Commander today he'll give me as much info as he can.

THANK YOU EVERYBODY here for the words of encouragement and advice, and as suggested I'll apply for my 03 C&R and see if we can get to the bottom of this. I don't have a super common name, but it's not "rare" or anything and several people in CA share my name and even one with the same middle name so who knows? But my FFL said the TBI lady seemed pretty confident in saying it could be overturned from the get-go so I need to keep this from happening in the future. This really messed with my head and had me questioning my move to Tennessee for a bit.

Again, thank you and stay tuned.... I'll add more when I get more.

[robin48]

Congratulations!

[tnhawk]

After having similar denials a few times I finally got a UPIN issued.  That process took a year from the time I mailed the fingerprint card.

[ACfixer]

1 hour ago, tnhawk said:

After having similar denials a few times I finally got a UPIN issued.  That process took a year from the time I mailed the fingerprint card.

I think I am going to do that AND the C&R license. I'm not going to lie, I was really in the dumps over this tnhawk. I'm a real square peg and have been for 30 years and this really caught me off guard. Whatever I need to do to not have this happen anymore I'm on it.

[Mowgli Terry]

I have been buying firearms from several dealers on a regular basis. Out of the blue came this deal where I could not pick up the firearm for thirty days. I had a simple assault case in 1971. I had to supply finger prints and court records to establish it was not domestic abuse. This was, maybe, ten years ago.

 

My background checks to this day can be turned down or delayed, It was suggested that who may be doing the background checks that day (with sexist comments). To top it all, I had a brand newly renewed carry permit when all this crap started. If turned down, I appeal and the get the gun. Mainly, a pain in the butt. I do not want to complain due to concerns of having to through the dance all over again to get cleared.

[ACfixer]

9 hours ago, Mowgli-Terry said:

...I appeal and the get the gun. Mainly, a pain in the butt. I do not want to complain due to concerns of having to through the dance all over again to get cleared.

I get where you are coming from, and I may end up in that boat waiting from time to time. I am going to make some reasonable efforts to try to end it, but if n the end I have to wait a week or two it will suck but I guess I'll deal with it like you. I'm sorry we (and many others her) have had to deal with this. It's an infringement Terry, that's the bottom line... We are not prohibited so we should not be denied.

[Mowgli Terry]

I wonder who initiated the extra background checks. I thought that records were not to be retained. Somebody or something put this business into motion.

Also, if a domestic abuser be caught on this background check were they prosecuted. What was the purpose of these further checks. Was it to harass or what?

[DaveTN]

30 minutes ago, Mowgli-Terry said:

I wonder who initiated the extra background checks. I thought that records were not to be retained. Somebody or something put this business into motion.

What "extra" checks?

[Mowgli Terry]

The extra checks involved waits and applications to FBI etc. Firearms and permits had been gotten with the same history. All of a sudden there is a problem. That was the new search. All this stuff came out of nowhere.

[DaveTN]

15 hours ago, Mowgli-Terry said:

The extra checks involved waits and applications to FBI etc. Firearms and permits had been gotten with the same history. All of a sudden there is a problem. That was the new search. All this stuff came out of nowhere.

Sure, but I don’t think there were any additional checks. What I suspect happened on mine was that one person saw it and said “That’s decades old, and isn’t a disqualifier even with a conviction” and approved it.

The next time someone saw it and said “Danger, Danger Will Robinson! That’s a weapons violation and even though its decades old, and a misdemeanor; it could be a felony in this state!!" And denied it. Then someone with more sense reviewed it on appeal and approved it.

But that just a wild azz guess.

[ACfixer]

^^^ Seems like the likely scenario to me.

[Mowgli Terry]

I'm not so sure.Thinking all this hassle came accidentally too much of a stretch. My feeling that these searches came on or after the 4473 included domestic abuse. This thing kicked in between gun purchases. I had to wait thirty days on two purchases.

 We all got hit with this thing. What we had to deal with this on or about the same time. Remember, it was necessary for me to deal with specific issues. That was domestic abuse. The request for records came before the Sutherland Springs, Texas church shooting.  It was not domestic abuse.

Sorry, I cannot go with this stuff coming randomly. All this may have had to do with how well court records were kept. My event went back to 1971. Knoxville court records appear to be in chaos. I tried to resolve this but the person I talked to made Barney Fife look like John Wick.

I has bought many guns in the time since the background check came in. I also had an FFL in the past. Also, during this time I got a carry permit. No check like this..

[ACfixer]

They never asked me for anything, just overturned it. My domestic arrest never resulted in anything but dropped charges... this is my suspicion as to what triggered the denial but I really don't know.

Edited December 26, 2020 by ACfixer

[Mowgli Terry]

Hope for all of us this is a done deal. Possibly the change in the  domestic abuse laws brought on CYA in the ranks of the TBI. Somebody or something put further review of records into motion.

[DaveTN]

On 12/24/2020 at 12:22 PM, Mowgli-Terry said:

I'm not so sure. Thinking all this hassle came accidentally too much of a stretch. My feeling that these searches came on or after the 4473 included domestic abuse.

 

9 hours ago, Mowgli-Terry said:

Possibly the change in the  domestic abuse laws brought on CYA in the ranks of the TBI. Somebody or something put further review of records into motion.

I don’t know. I went through this hassle and mine had nothing to do with domestic violence. I’m also not saying it was “accidentally”. I did in fact have an old arrest that had been dismissed but the Feds didn’t have a disposition on it. No other state stopped my purchases, probably because mine would not have been a disqualifier even with a conviction.

I just think they issue a refusal anytime they can find something to question. Some may argue that’s a good thing. I don’t think they should be able to issue a refusal unless they have something that is clearly is a disqualifier. But I suspect we will see some changes soon that will make the background checks even more of a problem.

[ACfixer]

I'm eyeballing a .223 on Armslist right now Dave, it's in the $500 range so I'm not going to cry if it gets delayed. I think I am going to just try it again and see what happens. My FFL said we'll call it in rather than using the automated online check... he says if they start to deny he'll being this case up and mention they overturned it. Stay tuned.

[DaveTN]

13 minutes ago, ACfixer said:

I'm eyeballing a .223 on Armslist right now Dave, it's in the $500 range so I'm not going to cry if it gets delayed. I think I am going to just try it again and see what happens. My FFL said we'll call it in rather than using the automated online check... he says if they start to deny he'll being this case up and mention they overturned it. Stay tuned.

Good luck with that. I tried using common sense with them and it didn’t work. They are going to tell your FFL they can’t, by law, keep that previous information, and don’t have it.

As upset as you were over this, I’d just remind you that until you find out what the problem is, and fix it; this will happen again. The TBI can’t help you. All they can do is let you know what they are seeing that’s making them turn you down; if they will do that.

[ACfixer]

Yeah I was upset no question. I just wonder if by chance something was "fixed" or noted on their end. Wishful thinking I suppose... but the fact two others went through without a hitch I guess I'm hoping it was just an anomaly. I wouldn't be as upset the second time knowing it's going to be overturned again... or am I assuming something that might not be the case?