Human euthanasian

[xsubsailor]

 Here’s a nice controversial subject.

I read an article a while back about another country that has legalized this and at the time didn’t think too much about it, but a case of a Florida hospital not recognizing a man’s “Do not resuscitate” tattoo on his chest jogged my memory about it. After giving it more thought, I’m beginning to warm to the idea.  Before someone gets too upset, I’m not talking about putting down Granny when you get tired of caring for her but having the legal right to choose for yourself. I know that there’s some that would be against it because of religious beliefs and I do respect that.

 For reasons I won’t go into right now, I was a frequent visitor at a nursing home for a number of years. There seemed to be two types of residents there, those that were lying in their beds looking at the ceiling waiting to die and the ones in wheelchairs waiting for the time when they would be confined to bed so they can look at the ceiling. The one thing they all had in common is no one was happy, not one single smile from anyone. I’ve tried to imagine what it would be like to be totally disabled and unable to do anything for myself, whether it be the results of an accident or a debilitating disease, and I wouldn’t want to live like that.

 I think that a person should be allowed to put into their Living Will a statement something along the lines of: “When I reach the point where I can no longer fill in the blank (feed myself, bath myself, go to the bathroom by myself, etc.) I wish to have my life terminated” and have it honored by law.

 One big obstacle, along with a few others, would be finding a doctor that would carry out the task because of the Hippocratic Oath they take.

Ok, I’m going to go hide in my bunker so I won’t get hit by any bricks being thrown my way. 

 

[Garufa]

Everything you said about nursing homes is 100% correct.  They are horrible places run by run by people I question how they made it through grade school.

Euthanasia is an entirely different matter.  It is practiced daily by the “medical profession” whether people want to believe it or not.  In a way that is a good and necessary thing.  They are NOT going to spend too much time on someone that does not have excellent insurance and personal resources to keep them alive.

It’s a sad reality that many can’t accept but I have seen it first hand.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Garufa

[peejman]

Does modern medicine help you live longer or die slower?  I do not wish to become a burden on anyone, my biggest fear is my mind going before my body. 

[Alleycat72]

Morphine dosage until pain free. 

[Garufa]

2 minutes ago, alleycat72 said:

Morphine dosage until pain free. 

Put that in your living will and let your family know.  Then find a Dr. that will do it.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Garufa

[Alleycat72]

13 minutes ago, Garufa said:

Put that in your living will and let your family know.  Then find a Dr. that will do it.

Problem is, for those individuals that receive that order there's only one way to be pain free. Not official, but they do it.

[Danger Rane]

@xsubsailor I have no idea how their rules are written in Florida, but in TN a DNR tattoo would not be recognized. The only acceptable DNR order here is an official document provided by your Dr. that you have both signed and dated. If a patient in a hospital or care facility has a legitimate DNR order it is clearly documented so that a mistake is not made. If they get transported by ambulance for something the DNR order (or verified copy) goes with the patient to the receiving facility. If the said patient passes at home the family needs to know where that DNR is and present it when EMS arrives or resuscitation attempts will have to be made if there is any chance. I say all this just to dispel any misconceptions about the process and in hopes that anyone who has that wish will know what the process is.

[Grayfox54]

I know that if I were in that position of no longer being capable of taking care of myself or have no pleasure in life,  I'd probably rather just go ahead and die. 

Would having yourself be allowed to die without a fight be considered suicide? I'm curious as to the religious implications. I know that in some religions that suicide  in any form supposedly is a express ticket straight to Hell. But if you're in such bad shape that life no longer has any meaning, would that still be true? I know we have some very religious people on this board. What would be your opinion? 

[RED333]

My Mom has a DNR, she has talked to all of us(her kids). Gona be a tuff day that day.

8 hours ago, Garufa said:

Everything you said about nursing homes is 100% correct.

I agree as well, them places are so depressing.

[Omega]

We have a friend who just was notified she had cancer, from going in to get checked to now being given just a few days to live, all in a span of just two to three weeks.  Her daughter told us she is tired of fighting so I suspect she will go soon.  For her, I'd support euthanasia, instead of going through all the pain and suffering, and the indignity of having everything done for you in the end.

It should be a no brainer, when you have a terminal disease and only a short time left, it should be legal to choose to die on your own terms.  We have discussed this at length in our family, we don't have DNRs, but have expressed our feelings that if we are being kept alive artificially and the quality of life is just not there, then we will make the decision to let that person go.  DNRs are a bit too restrictive IMO, they won't even do CPR, which would suck if your heart stopped and all it needs is a jumpstart, with nothing else wrong.

[E4 No More]

12 hours ago, Garufa said:

Put that in your living will and let your family know.  Then find a Dr. that will do it.

Hospice does it all the time. When my dad had terminal cancer they put him on liquid morphine and tacitly told him how to end his life when he wanted to. My sister questioned them about it, and they told her they do it all the time because it's a common request.

[xsubsailor]

9 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

Hospice does it all the time. When my dad had terminal cancer they put him on liquid morphine and tacitly told him how to end his life when he wanted to. My sister questioned them about it, and they told her they do it all the time because it's a common request.

This can be done only when a patient is in pain. What I was getting to in the op was someone that was not in pain but could not do anything for themselves and didn't want to live like that.

[E4 No More]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:23 PM, Grayfox54 said:

I know that if I were in that position of no longer being capable of taking care of myself or have no pleasure in life,  I'd probably rather just go ahead and die. 

Would having yourself be allowed to die without a fight be considered suicide? I'm curious as to the religious implications. I know that in some religions that suicide  in any form supposedly is a express ticket straight to Hell. But if you're in such bad shape that life no longer has any meaning, would that still be true? I know we have some very religious people on this board. What would be your opinion? 

I've read the Bible numerous times, and nowhere does it say that. Can't talk about Muslims, Mormons, etc. It does say that it is "appointed once unto man to die" so you can't die before your time, and no matter what, you can't surprise God. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by E4 No More

[E4 No More]

11 minutes ago, xsubsailor said:

This can be done only when a patient is in pain. What I was getting to in the op was someone that was not in pain but could not do anything for themselves and didn't want to live like that.

I was responding to Garufa's comment about finding a doctor that will do it. To your point, pain is not only subjective, it is a given for a terminal cancer patient. Cancer metastasizes to the bone and brain. You may not have pain now, but you will. 

[E4 No More]

Personally, I feel that the choice to end your life cannot be more personal, and it's nobody's damned business if you make the choice to do so - particularly the government's. Some will say it's the family's business, but if you're selfish enough not to consider them then their opinion doesn't matter to you anyway.

[xsubsailor]

1 hour ago, Omega said:

have expressed our feelings that if we are being kept alive artificially and the quality of life is just not there, then we will make the decision to let that person go.  

 I've had to make this decision twice and knowing the persons wishes helps quite a bit but I can't stress enough the importance of having a Medical Power of Attorney along with the Living Will. Things can come up that are not included in or at least not detailed enough in a Living Will to have the persons wishes carried out. Each document needs to be very specific in the wording because anything in a Living Will cannot be overridden by a Medical Power Of Attorney should the situation come up. 

[peejman]

11 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

I know that if I were in that position of no longer being capable of taking care of myself or have no pleasure in life,  I'd probably rather just go ahead and die. 

Would having yourself be allowed to die without a fight be considered suicide? I'm curious as to the religious implications. I know that in some religions that suicide  in any form supposedly is a express ticket straight to Hell. But if you're in such bad shape that life no longer has any meaning, would that still be true? I know we have some very religious people on this board. What would be your opinion? 

Sticky point for sure.  Suicide can be self murder or self sacrifice.  Murder is a sin, but sins can be forgiven so I don't think it's a ticket straight to hell.  It can be an extremely selfish act or an extremely selfless act. 

I watched a family member with a treatable condition not even try and slowly fade away over a few weeks, leaving her husband of 50+ years, kids, grandkids, and great grandkids behind. Which was that?  It still bugs me. 

[Erik88]

It should be my own choice when I decide to go. I don't see how it could be any more simple than that. If a person wants pain free euthanasia it should be allowed. What are the arguments against it? 

[Grayfox54]

1 hour ago, E4 No More said:

I've read the Bible numerous times, and no where does it say that. Can't talk about Muslims, Mormons, etc. It does say that it is "appointed once unto man to die" so you can't die before your time, and no matter what, you can't surprise God. 

I'm asking because I really don't know. I was raised Methodist and don't  remember it ever coming up. However, my wife was a Catholic.  In fact, her Uncle, the Priest,  married us. I seem to recall that somewhere at sometime there was a discussion about suicide and it being a one way ticket to Hell. IIRC, In their view there's absolutely no valid reason for taking your own life. and you're damned if you do.  I wish I could remember the details more. I was hoping somebody here could fill me in. 

[E4 No More]

22 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

I'm asking because I really don't know. I was raised Methodist and don't  remember it ever coming up. However, my wife was a Catholic.  In fact, her Uncle, the Priest,  married us. I seem to recall that somewhere at sometime there was a discussion about suicide and it being a one way ticket to Hell. IIRC, In their view there's absolutely no valid reason for taking your own life. and you're damned if you do.  I wish I could remember the details more. I was hoping somebody here could fill me in. 

Yes, the Catholics believe that, but they also don't believe in grace by faith. They believe in works over faith contrary to what the Bible says. You can't work your way into Heaven.

Personally, I place no faith in man. Nowhere does God tell you in the Bible to hire some guy or gal to tell you what to believe. In fact, it's quite the opposite in 2 Timothy 2:15, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

In modern language and context: Study the Bible to show yourself approved by God, a worker that should not be ashamed of his work, correctly dividing the Bible. The last means that the Bible was written to three people groups: the Jews, the gentiles [people who have not come to Christ] and the saints [people who have come to Christ]. You do not apply doctrine for the Jews to the saints, or the gentiles to the saints. That's where most people fail.

[FUJIMO]

The only thing I can add at this time is everyone should have POA if it's not assumed to be your spouse should the instance arise. It was actually drawn up by a TGO member and has came in handy on numerous occasions the last couple years. This was for a divorced elderly parent 

[Dirtshooter]

21 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

I know that in some religions that suicide  in any form supposedly is a express ticket straight to Hell.

Grayfox, that is a myth. The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Suicide is not the unforgivable sin.

[Raoul]

Well this is a seriously bummer thread. Somebody really needs to get outside and take a hike or shoot a can or something.

[hipower]

On 11/23/2020 at 8:02 PM, xsubsailor said:

 Here’s a nice controversial subject.

I read an article a while back about another country that has legalized this and at the time didn’t think too much about it, but a case of a Florida hospital not recognizing a man’s “Do not resuscitate” tattoo on his chest jogged my memory about it. After giving it more thought, I’m beginning to warm to the idea.  Before someone gets too upset, I’m not talking about putting down Granny when you get tired of caring for her but having the legal right to choose for yourself. I know that there’s some that would be against it because of religious beliefs and I do respect that.

 For reasons I won’t go into right now, I was a frequent visitor at a nursing home for a number of years. There seemed to be two types of residents there, those that were lying in their beds looking at the ceiling waiting to die and the ones in wheelchairs waiting for the time when they would be confined to bed so they can look at the ceiling. The one thing they all had in common is no one was happy, not one single smile from anyone. I’ve tried to imagine what it would be like to be totally disabled and unable to do anything for myself, whether it be the results of an accident or a debilitating disease, and I wouldn’t want to live like that.

 I think that a person should be allowed to put into their Living Will a statement something along the lines of: “When I reach the point where I can no longer fill in the blank (feed myself, bath myself, go to the bathroom by myself, etc.) I wish to have my life terminated” and have it honored by law.

 One big obstacle, along with a few others, would be finding a doctor that would carry out the task because of the Hippocratic Oath they take.

Ok, I’m going to go hide in my bunker so I won’t get hit by any bricks being thrown my way. 

 

It's a topic I've thought much on. I don't have any answers, but I do have the thought that I don't want to be as you've described. I fear being bedridden and immobile...greatly. Ok, I've typed this before reading all the thread posts. Let's see how it's going.  

[hipower]

23 minutes ago, Raoul said:

Well this is a seriously bummer thread. Somebody really needs to get outside and take a hike or shoot a can or something.

You made me chuckle with that comment. It's very true. I have seen it in myself and in others. Sometimes a good kick in the butt works well too.