.22 LR auction price, WTH!

[Darrell]

2 hours ago, No_0ne said:

I didn't miss your point, I don't agree with it.  By your definition, I'm a "hoarder". I'm not selling, but if I were it wouldn't bother me in the slightest to price my stuff at whatever the current market will bear. When I buy stuff from others, I don't ask or care what they paid for it, my only concern is what it's going to cost me. When I sell, the price I paid is similarly irrelevant to the buyer. As for your "resentment", or anybody else's, that's your problem, not the sellers. When the market catches up and prices return to "normal" (what that actually means is debatable) as they inevitably will, do yourself a favor and become better prepared for the next shortage, which is equally inevitable, as these things have been running in cycles for decades.

As for Joe Blow "screwing up the supply signal", that doesn't hold water either. If Joe is making purchases during a time of plentiful supply, he is in fact helping to drive a market that is already depressed. If we "hoarders" weren't stocking up when things are available at relatively cheap prices, manufacturers might cut back on supply even more than they otherwise would have.

It's always amazing to see how many here who profess to be fans of capitalism and free market economies really aren't, nor apparently do they truly understand how one works ...

OK, so you disagree that the current shortages of ammo and components and consequent high prices are caused by people hording. To what, then, do you attribute them?

And you don't think that selling a box of .22 ammo for $200 or a brick of primers for $130 is profiteering? Capitalism works through adding value. A manufacturer buys raw material, works it into something more useful, and sells it at a profit. That's capitalism and free market. But the guys who recently drove through KY and TN buying up hand-sanitizer at every Dollar Store they could find, then selling it at outrageous prices were NOT engaging in a free-market economy. They were adding no value at all, simply taking advantage of a shortage by gouging folks who needed a commodity.

[deerslayer]

14 minutes ago, Darrell said:

OK, so you disagree that the current shortages of ammo and components and consequent high prices are caused by people hording. To what, then, do you attribute them?

Hoarding last week?  Sure.  Hoarding two years ago?  Completely unrelated.  There is also the possibility that more people are buying guns and ammo.  
 

A fair price is whatever a buyer is willing to pay and the owner is willing to accept.  Anything else is flirting with socialism.  

Edited November 18, 2020 by deerslayer

[gregintenn]

17 minutes ago, Darrell said:

OK, so you disagree that the current shortages of ammo and components and consequent high prices are caused by people hording. To what, then, do you attribute them?

And you don't think that selling a box of .22 ammo for $200 or a brick of primers for $130 is profiteering? Capitalism works through adding value. A manufacturer buys raw material, works it into something more useful, and sells it at a profit. That's capitalism and free market. But the guys who recently drove through KY and TN buying up hand-sanitizer at every Dollar Store they could find, then selling it at outrageous prices were NOT engaging in a free-market economy. They were adding no value at all, simply taking advantage of a shortage by gouging folks who needed a commodity.

From what I read, background checks for gun purchases have been setting all kinds of records lately. Do you reckon the folks buying all these guns might just buy something to shoot in them?

Further, if a guy puts a brick of 22 shells on gunbroker for a penny start, no reserve auction, how did he set the selling price?

There is another element to capitalism. It's called supply and demand. When demand increases and supply does not, prices rise. When demand lessens and supply remains the same, prices decrease.

[deerslayer]

Microeconomics 101

S is supply

D is demand

P is price

Q is quantity sold

Adjust the curves and the price/quantity moves accordingly

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by deerslayer

[No_0ne]

2 hours ago, Darrell said:

OK, so you disagree that the current shortages of ammo and components and consequent high prices are caused by people hording. To what, then, do you attribute them?

The same factors that typically cause these episodes. Ammo and component manufacturing capacity is limited, even in so-called "normal" times the capacity is nearly maxed out.  This is in fact good business practice by the manufacturers, as excess capacity generally represents capital that isn't generating revenue or profits.  Every few years, people seem to panic over external events, presidential elections and mass shootings are two such events that often precipitate these panics. At that point a lot of people run out and attempt to buy up ammo and guns, many times in large quantities ("hoarding", you call it) thus setting off and exacerbating the shortage of these items.  This shortage is a temporary condition, eventually the markets settle out and things return to more or less "normal". However, during the interim, people who read or hear about the rise in prices and the shortage of ammo, components and guns also decide that this represents some sort of "end-of-times" type of event and start paying up to whatever the market demands for these items. At that point, others begin to market items they have to cash in on the craze. Then, of course, we get the inevitable barrage of posts on sites like this one decrying the profiteers, the shortages, the prices, pretty much everything but their own lack of preparation and foresight. Meanwhile, those of us who "hoard" are simply waiting out the insanity, once that's over we will go back to "hoarding" again ...

[gregintenn]

58 minutes ago, No_0ne said:

The same factors that typically cause these episodes. Ammo and component manufacturing capacity is limited, even in so-called "normal" times the capacity is nearly maxed out.  This is in fact good business practice by the manufacturers, as excess capacity generally represents capital that isn't generating revenue or profits.  Every few years, people seem to panic over external events, presidential elections and mass shootings are two such events that often precipitate these panics. At that point a lot of people run out and attempt to buy up ammo and guns, many times in large quantities ("hoarding", you call it) thus setting off and exacerbating the shortage of these items.  This shortage is a temporary condition, eventually the markets settle out and things return to more or less "normal". However, during the interim, people who read or hear about the rise in prices and the shortage of ammo, components and guns also decide that this represents some sort of "end-of-times" type of event and start paying up to whatever the market demands for these items. At that point, others begin to market items they have to cash in on the craze. Then, of course, we get the inevitable barrage of posts on sites like this one decrying the profiteers, the shortages, the prices, pretty much everything but their own lack of preparation and foresight. Meanwhile, those of us who "hoard" are simply waiting out the insanity, once that's over we will go back to "hoarding" again ...

Exactly. This is referred to as a self fulfilling prophecy.

[papa61]

my OPINION is many of those selling ammo and components are not shooters but amateur retailers taking advantage of the situation much as the guy who bought the huge quantity of hand sanitizer to resell at the beginning of this mess. note that his error was showing his hand with quantity.  

[gregintenn]

There is an entire industry developed around taking advantage of folks who refuse to be prepared. Buy here pay here car lots and check cashing places are among them. Ammo speculators are no different. If it weren’t lucrative, it wouldn’t happen.

[Quavodus]

I like to shoot but, not that much.

[DeepSouth]

In 2009 my dad sent me a few links. They were from all the big reloading sites. He said watch prices daily and cash in when a price is good. Midway had Wolf primers, they might be $28 per carton one day and whatever price the next day, or an hour later. December 14, 2009 I open my computer before heading to work. Midway had Wolf sp primers for $13.50 per carton, I ordered 5 sleeves. Wolf sr primers $14.75 per carton I ordered 5 sleeves. When I got home I checked again, they were $33 and $35. I got other good deals too.

At that time we could spend a few hours at the range with very low cost in reloading.