Armslist no longer free.

[Grayfox54]

For those of you who may not have noticed, Armslist.com is now a members only site. The cost is $3.99 per month. You can view ads for free, but to contact sellers or post new ads you must be a paid member. This really pisses me off. I've used Armslist for years and gotten some good deals on it. In the Memphis area its about the only place to find good used guns at decent prices. 

IDK, but if I find something I really want, I guess I could sign up for one month and make the deal. But then I wonder, can I quit and wait until the next time? Or am I stuck with it? 

I think Armslist just committed suicide. 

[tacops]

I just purchased a Sig P229 Legion this weekend off of Armslist.  The seller posted a phone number in the ad for text or call purposes.  Had he not done that I would not have bought the weapon for I was not willing to pay a fee in order to use the "Contact Seller" Armslist contact method.  Too many times I have had sellers simply not reply via this method of contact.

[Ronald_55]

10 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

For those of you who may not have noticed, Armslist.com is now a members only site. The cost is $3.99 per month. You can view ads for free, but to contact sellers or post new ads you must be a paid member. This really pisses me off. I've used Armslist for years and gotten some good deals on it. In the Memphis area its about the only place to find good used guns at decent prices. 

IDK, but if I find something I really want, I guess I could sign up for one month and make the deal. But then I wonder, can I quit and wait until the next time? Or am I stuck with it? 

I think Armslist just committed suicide. 

Just remember to get the $3.99 price you have to do a ACH electronic transfer from your bank, So basically your financial info is tied to whatever messages you send and potentially guns you buy

[Grayfox54]

I think tacops hit on the answer there. Only respond to ads with a phone number. Let's just hope sellers catch on to this as well and be sure to put their number in the ad.   But then, some folks preferred having that extra layer of the Armlist e-mail system for their own privacy. I know I did. Gives you a chance to scope out the other guy before giving out much personal info. I have killed deals due to sketchy sounding messages. 

And then, the vast majority of sellers are individuals with only one gun to sell. They just want to make a buck. I kinda doubt they'll be wanting to join up just to sell one gun. So I expect the number of ads to drop  considerably.  

I rarely, ever buy a brand new gun. Most of the current crop of plastic fantastics holds absolutely no interest to me. I like old fashioned blue steel and wood. Most of the LGS in the Memphis area carry very little in the way of used guns and what they have is way over priced. Gun Shows and Armslist have been the primary sources of new-to-me guns for probably  the last 20 years or more. I've made some great deals on hard to find stuff. 

Truth be told, many were impulse buys. Just casually cruising through Armslist ads and suddenly "OOH! I like that!"  I have no self control. 

I guess we'll just have to see how it works out. 

 

[DaveTN]

I try to buy & trade local, unless its on new guns. So I’ve never had much luck on Armslist. Here and GOC is my best sources. I see a lot of stuff I want available on GB. I haven’t used them yet, but I may try them out if its not a big hassle to have my local guy handle the transfers.

[TGO David]

On 10/27/2020 at 12:08 PM, Grayfox54 said:

I think tacops hit on the answer there. Only respond to ads with a phone number. Let's just hope sellers catch on to this as well and be sure to put their number in the ad.

I don't understand this line of thinking.  What you are advocating for is people stealing a service from a company that sells it.  You might as well advocate for running an extension cord out your window and across to the neighbor's house and powering your refrigerator from the electricity they are paying for.  It's the same idea.

I am not a fan of Armslist because I prefer to do business with people on TGO.  Doing business here provides a measure of security in the sense that I either know the person on the other side of the deal, or someone that I know does, or someone that I know and trust has done business with them before and made it through that deal alive and well.  When newcomers join us, we generally all extend them the same courtesy of faith and trust at least once, and then they become part of the fold.  It's worked very well since 1997.

BUT...

If for some reason we were to have to switch our model to limiting the ability for prospective buyers to contact a seller to folks who have paid for that ability, I'd really hope people would just play by the rules and not work around them.

As was pointed out elsewhere, when you enter into that payment transaction with a site like Armslist, or even TGO, you are giving us a way to validate who you are.  Armslist has long had a problem with scammers screwing over buyers.  This MIGHT be their step toward fixing some of that by ensuring that they have a way to connect Internet-You to RealWorld-You in the case that you decide to engage in illegal activities.

Whatever their reason is, it's their reason and their prerogative and their service.  Don't steal it and don't advocate for others to make it easier for people to steal it.

 

[Magiccarpetrides]

Reminds me of when Craigslist started charging and everyone was up in arms....but ya know what its still a deal and these companies gotta make a profit...plus maybe with enough funding it will give us a valid alternative to gunbroker.  Also i tried free armslist...i'd appreciate an extra layer of security as all I tended to get was the "im gonna send you a check for double the amount and you send me the difference back" scams.

[Erich]

While I am not fond of the practice, it is the wave of the future and in the last 3 to 5 years, the trend has proven itself to be work from a business perspective. This is somewhat generational, in its seems the norm for younger users who dont blink an eye at seemingly nominal fees. As their voice is the majority (it seems), it works.

Its really rampant in the software industry, especially where there were freeware utilities that were a standard. The trend is also changing one time up front fees or term specific charges to subscription as revenue overtime is greater. I recall the study Microsoft conducted with the expected time someone uses an office suite version (up to seven years) as the driver for their 365 BS. They make more in less time and they keep you paying or cut you off making you dead in the water. I've seen that referred to as a great proof of concept for others to make that move.

Enjoy freebies while you can, but days are numbered I'm afraid.

 

 

[QuackerSmacker]

Armslist has recently had to pay incredibly huge legal bills to defend incredibly bogus lawsuits by the Anti's.   That's probably got a lot to do with it.

[loadedp3at]

doesn't matter to me. I am not paying to send messages to people who don't respond or won't make a deal. Same as paying to go car shopping  and talk to the salesman only to find out I didn't want the car. I will just watch for phone numbers or go to the local shop.

[loadedp3at]

This seems like a way to profit from so many people trying to buy guns! They already charge vendors.

[Grayfox54]

 I've never dealt with any sellers who weren't local. I want to see the gun myself and meet the seller in person. I've inquired about a number of guns listed as local, only to have the seller say that they were located elsewhere and would ship it to me. No way! That just stinks of a scam. Armslist is set up for local sales. That's why they have many different listings for individual areas/cities. Anybody foolish enough to try a long distance sale on there is just asking for trouble. 

Ok, I see your point about cheating Armslist. That just never occurred to me. My bad. However, it just pisses me off when what was free and very useful suddenly wants to charge. Don't blame me for trying to find a work around. 

As I mentioned earlier, Memphis gun shops are very poor in the way of good used guns. What few they do have are way over priced. Armslist has been my go to source for used guns for many years. Now that will likely dry up. 

And yes, I do check the classifieds on TGO daily. But it seems that every time I find something I like, its plumb at the other end of the state.  What can I say? 

 

[DaveTN]

14 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

 And yes, I do check the classifieds on TGO daily. But it seems that every time I find something I like, its plumb at the other end of the state.  What can I say? 

Ha, ha, ha...it works the same for those of us in the MidState and East. 

[Chucktshoes]

It’s pretty much a guarantee that whatever you want is going to require a trip to the other side of the state. 

[QuackerSmacker]

At least it's a beautiful state to drive through.  Doing it tomorrow.

[TGO David]

20 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

And yes, I do check the classifieds on TGO daily. But it seems that every time I find something I like, its plumb at the other end of the state.  What can I say? 

 

 

5 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Ha, ha, ha...it works the same for those of us in the MidState and East. 

 

50 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

It’s pretty much a guarantee that whatever you want is going to require a trip to the other side of the state. 

 

I know exactly how you guys feel about this one.  I've been on the short end of the state both as a seller and a prospective buyer more than once.  It always reminds me that I need to be angry about the fact that we can't easily ship firearms to one another inside the same state.  And it's not because it is illegal.  It's NOT illegal at all.  Rather it's because shipping carriers make it so damn difficult.

I also have this theory that a lot of folks are either sitting on the guns they have, being selective about what they part with, or slow to sell when they fear that they might not be able to locate and buy whatever new thing has caught their attention.  Face it, a lot of us sell guns in order to buy other guns. 

I hope and expect that this will change soon.  It may be after the first of the year, but I think we'll see more variety on the secondary market.  Unless Al Qeda Harris and Sniffy Joe win the election, and then it's going to be nuts.

 

[Darrell]

On 10/30/2020 at 1:27 PM, TGO David said:

I don't understand this line of thinking.  What you are advocating for is people stealing a service from a company that sells it.  You might as well advocate for running an extension cord out your window and across to the neighbor's house and powering your refrigerator from the electricity they are paying for.  It's the same idea.

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree with you. The poster has to pay to place his ad, and that's fair and reasonable. But I've often responded to an Armslist ad and found that the item was already sold, received no reply at all, or found that the item didn't suit me. 

The membership fee is fair, I have no complaint with it, and if I used Armslist all the time I'd surely pay up. But it doesn't seem reasonable to me to expect a person to pay $4.00 for the privilege of responding to an ad. 

[tacops]

1 hour ago, Darrell said:

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree with you. The poster has to pay to place his ad, and that's fair and reasonable. But I've often responded to an Armslist ad and found that the item was already sold, received no reply at all, or found that the item didn't suit me. 

The membership fee is fair, I have no complaint with it, and if I used Armslist all the time I'd surely pay up. But it doesn't seem reasonable to me to expect a person to pay $4.00 for the privilege of responding to an ad. 

Ditto.

[TGO David]

1 hour ago, Darrell said:

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree with you. The poster has to pay to place his ad, and that's fair and reasonable. But I've often responded to an Armslist ad and found that the item was already sold, received no reply at all, or found that the item didn't suit me. 

The membership fee is fair, I have no complaint with it, and if I used Armslist all the time I'd surely pay up. But it doesn't seem reasonable to me to expect a person to pay $4.00 for the privilege of responding to an ad. 

It seems reasonable to the folks that own the service so they're free to give it a shot and see if their customers agree.

Things change.  Ideas and concepts that used to work sometimes change and are no longer viable.  There are a variety of reasons why this could be the case...

• Costs of operation requiring more income.
• Maybe some states maybe require them to operate as a "club" with exclusive membership, and the legal definition requires a membership fee.
• Maybe charging a fee to a buyer allows them to validate that buyer's identity (as mentioned elsewhere)
• Maybe they just regretted their previous subscription model and saw an opportunity to change it and make more profit.
  • Making a profit isn't evil.  It's why any of us who go into business do it in the first place.

 

I don't know if or which of any of those are true or accurate.  Just reasons I could reasonably think of without any effort.  Of course, the power lies with the customer to decide if they want to pay and use the service, or not.  But stealing is stealing, and I'd rather just see people walk away from a service than try to bilk the people behind it of the value they've put on their work.  That's just wrong.

[DaveTN]

52 minutes ago, TGO David said:

Of course, the power lies with the customer to decide if they want to pay and use the service, or not.  

This ^ 

I think the sellers and advertisers should be footing the bill for the sites; not the buyers. I don’t think that dog will hunt. I also think Armslist is committing suicide; but the buyers will determine that. We have at least two clear options here for buyers to contact sellers with no charge to them.

But I do agree that you shouldn’t try to rip them off. Don’t even go there and give them clicks. If nothing is moving the “Sellers” will get tired of paying for nothing and things will change.

[FUJIMO]

The Armslist business model change is a sign of things to come I think. I've been a member over there over 10 years and have contacted them several times regarding premium membership, pay to play type setup, etc. The way it was previously set up if you bought a "vendor" membership you had to be an ffl therefore killing anyone that might just want to sell as an accessories shop/vendor. They are following the footsteps of a lot of online sites where the days of freebies are over. Just like TGO I've never had an issue giving the man in charge a taste of the action but many sites aren't happy with a monthly or yearly payment. They want a taste of every transaction and in the case of Armslist they want a significant amount of personal information to be the buyer and/or the seller. THAT is what worries me the most. What it brings to my mind is tracing a transaction back to you with no statute of limitations. Profits aside that's some scary shizzle

[DaveTN]

2 hours ago, FUJIMO said:

and in the case of Armslist they want a significant amount of personal information to be the buyer and/or the seller. THAT is what worries me the most. What it brings to my mind is tracing a transaction back to you with no statute of limitations. 

Why would that matter? Not arguing, just curious. It can be traced back to you when you do it here in a private sale. There’s no anonymity on the internet. There isn’t any law that you have to be able to show the disposition of a firearm if it is traced back to you, unless you hold an FFL. I wouldn’t give any information to Armslist and I’m surprised they want it. If they weave themselves into the sale they run the risk of being a dealer or facilitating an illegal sale if things go wrong.

I wouldn’t think buyers paying would become the norm, there will always be someone satisfied with the advertising and sellers money. But if what I’m seeing today unfolds as it appears its going to; this will probably be a non-issue shortly.

[FUJIMO]

I feel confident David doesn't report back to a higher authority on a regular basis with TGO. I could be wrong though. Armslists response to my question regarding this new approach has been they need money to fight the ever hammering anti gun groups attacking them. How long before the membership list they are building becomes a list of who has what. Just like sleepys plan to tax the bejesus out of us they are other ways to take away our rights. Armslist isn't above selling out their users to continue to do what they do. Seems to be an easy way of gathering a lot of information if you ask me.

[TGO David]

1 hour ago, FUJIMO said:

I feel confident David doesn't report back to a higher authority on a regular basis with TGO. I could be wrong though.

Nope.  Not wrong.  I'm as much my own man as my wife says I can be.

 

[RED333]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

Nope.  Not wrong.  I'm as much my own man as my wife says I can be.

 

My wife wears the pants sometimes, and I want to get into them.