ATF coming after AR/AK/PCC pistols

[Chucktshoes]

As posted by Tim from Military Arms Channel  

This was sent to me for sharing on social media (see link below). The law firm of Wiley Rein is one of the largest law firms in the firearms industry and represents a number of major manufacturers in their dealings with the BATF and regulations. This is NOT a joke nor is it speculation. This is a stark warning of things to come and I hope it prompts you to take political action.

This letter is about several things but primarily it is something you should take very seriously because of recent actions by the BATF that will affect any owner of AR15 pistols, AK pistols, HK pistols, etc. Yes, this means your Saint AR pistol or your Draco. That's exactly what the ATF is targeting. 

There are several things of importance in this email. 

First: It goes against the Trump administrations Executive Order mandating such regulatory practices cease. The BATF has lead the charge is thumbing their nose at the President and his DOJ under the leadership of Attorney General Barr. 

Second: Any firearm that has a barrel length that is too long, or the firearm is too heavy will be considered not importable by the BATF. No more pistol versions of rifles will be importable. 

Third and the MOST IMPORTANT: Through unwritten interpretation of regulations and through private correspondence with unspecified companies, the ATF has capriciously and arbitrarily decided that ANY AR15 pistol, AK pistol, HK pistol, etc. is an ANY OTHER WEAPON (AOW) and thus is subject to the NFA and taxation. Any company who produces such firearms for sale in the United States and any consumer/owner of such firearms are either manufacturing or in possession of illegal AOW's. This is being retroactively enforced. It does not matter if you bought a previously approved firearm. The only way you can be for certain you are not in possession of an illegal NFA item is to personally submit your AR15 pistol, AK pistol, etc. to the ATF for a determination. This can take up to a year and any letter given to you is only for you. 

The ATF is getting around the EO's by claiming they're not making any permanent determination and their decisions are in essence fluid and subject to change. 

When you were willing to hand over bump stocks, we warned you it was not about the bump stocks, it was about HOW they were doing it. This is why Gun Owners of America and I are suing the federal government. When they started talking about reclassifying braced pistols as SBR's, you laughed and said people who bought them were stupid. Now, as we warned, they're coming for your regular AR15 and AK pistols. Is it so funny now? WAKE UP!

Contact your representatives TODAY and tell them you will NOT stand for the ATF making such capricious and arbitrary rules thus turning millions of Americans into felons over night. Sit silent now and you will have no one to blame but yourselves for what comes next. GET POLITICALLY ACTIVE.

Letter from Wiley Rein: https://bit.ly/3otxo2t

Contact your Reps: https://bit.ly/3jpVzva

[Moped]

Can’t say I’m shocked. This has been coming for quite sometime. 

[TripleGGG]

I'm not sure what its going to take for people to grasp what is really going on.  Denial is no longer an option.  

[seez52]

https://youtu.be/u87NIIvofjU

[FUJIMO]

One step closer....

[Omega]

I suspect they would have to call in the Navy Seals to recover all those guns from all the boating accidents that would surely follow.

[Ronald_55]

I sold off all the evil black rifles and pistols I had left after the boating accident and I have the lack of documentation to prove it. 

[Capbyrd]

Looks like we are screwed.   Trump is perfectly content to see them go.   Biden actively wants them gone.   Election doesn't matter.   

 

[Erik88]

I'm just trying to understand how this goes down. Say you made a perfectly legal purchase of a Saint AR pistol, the ATF is now saying those would need to be registered as an AOW? And they are banning future imports of similar guns? Or they are just thinking about it?  We're talking about millions of guns here.

[Chucktshoes]

14 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I'm just trying to understand how this goes down. Say you made a perfectly legal purchase of a Saint AR pistol, the ATF is now saying those would need to be registered as an AOW? And they are banning future imports of similar guns? Or they are just thinking about it?  We're talking about millions of guns here.

They’re saying maybe, maybe not. The ATF could take 2 identical saint pistols and declare one an AOW, the other not and they won’t determine that unless they have the actual item in hand. 
 

So all the “Large Handguns” out there are basically Schroedinger’s AOWs at this point. You don’t get to find out until a cop decides he wants to make an issue of it and arrest/seize/submit for a determination. 

[Ronald_55]

31 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

They’re saying maybe, maybe not. The ATF could take 2 identical saint pistols and declare one an AOW, the other not and they won’t determine that unless they have the actual item in hand. 
 

So all the “Large Handguns” out there are basically Schroedinger’s AOWs at this point. You don’t get to find out until a cop decides he wants to make an issue of it and arrest/seize/submit for a determination. 

Dang it Now I have to have a lower made that says

"Schroedinger's Pistol

A pistol unless the ATF looks at it"

 

Or something to that effect

 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Ronald_55

[Omega]

 

[btq96r]

I think this is a trial balloon, but it has to be taken seriously.  Some eager beaver civil servants may be seeing what they can line up in anticipation of a handing a potential Biden administration and the AG he picks a gem for the "first 100 days" of action items.

People have been absolutely brazen about "pistols", the sales numbers are a thumb in the eye, and it's some very low hanging fruit that doesn't have to go through Congress because they ceded this authority to the ATF because governing is actually hard.  The road to what we're facing is pretty easy to see.

 

[TripleGGG]

2 hours ago, Omega said:

I suspect they would have to call in the Navy Seals to recover all those guns from all the boating accidents that would surely follow.

I'm out on my boat right now and the tragedy is real. 

[Omega]

2 minutes ago, btq96r said:

I think this is a trial balloon, but it has to be taken seriously.  Some eager beaver civil servants may be seeing what they can line up in anticipation of a handing a potential Biden administration and the AG he picks a gem for the "first 100 days" of action items.

People have been absolutely brazen about "pistols", the sales numbers are a thumb in the eye, and it's some very low hanging fruit that doesn't have to go through Congress because they ceded this authority to the ATF because governing is actually hard.  The road to what we're facing is pretty easy to see.

 

Sounds like it would be a good case for the SC to rule on, once and for all.

[Erik88]

21 minutes ago, Omega said:

Sounds like it would be a good case for the SC to rule on, once and for all.

 

If they will take the case... So far, they have declined to rule on a lot of 2A cases. 

 

BTW, she's a cougar. 

[Chucktshoes]

1 minute ago, Erik88 said:

If they will take the case... So far, they have declined to rule on a lot of 2A cases. 

 

BTW, she's a cougar. 

I think the odds of them taking a 2A case just got better though. The prevailing theory is that SCOTUS declined the recent spate of cases because there was concern over Roberts being squishy. It only takes 4 justices to grant certiorari, so there was obviously a decision by someone that it wasn’t a good time to hear those cases. 

[DaveTN]

1 hour ago, Chucktshoes said:

You don’t get to find out until a cop decides he wants to make an issue of it and arrest/seize/submit for a determination. 

That’s What I have been saying for some time now..... only he doesn’t need to submit it for determination if a DA wants to charge you. The ATF’s opinion does not matter. We were all happy to jump onboard with bump stocks and braces when we knew full well they violated the intent of the law. It wasn’t until I saw the disclaimer on the ATF website that their dumb azz decisions have no legal authority that I realized we were all in jeopardy. Someone’s about to be made an example of. It almost happened in Sumner County over a PLR-16, but the case was settled without going to court.

[hipower]

So what do you see as options? Destroy all AR/AK style pistols? Dismantle them and keep parts separated? Keep using them?

Since the majority, I think anyway, are intended for HD, vehicle carry, or range use; where does this leave us?

Sell off to any willing buyer? Not sure if I would sell off anything right now. And what of the parts I'm sure many have? Uppers and lowers I don't immediately see as a problem. Braces and short barrels as components could be an issue. I'm sure there are other items that will need to be scrutinized in the wake of this threat to us.

At this point, I'm not sure I would make a purchase of one. Especially a new one with a 4473 behind it. And sell one off? That could be dicey. Fear could make big losses on selling. Or huge profits for those willing to buy and sit it out.

I've thought about this all night and today. I don't really have anything really rational to offer besides this. Contact all the Representatives and Senators you can. Letters to the White House.

Watch and wait.

 

[The Big Guy]

I never jumped into purchasing/building one of these. Had I gotten into one of these and I was worried I'd probably just take the brace off. It's still a registered pistol lower, right? Assuming the majority are AR type pistols, is it illegal to shoulder a naked buffer tube? 

Or are they going to classify all of these "rifle type pistols" as AOWs regardless of the brace?

Edited October 27, 2020 by The Big Guy

[Magiccarpetrides]

I'm not gonna worry either way...whatever will be will be...good idea to keep current on whatever the mood is though just to keep from getting a nasty surprise you weren't aware of later.  Honestly if they did make them all AOW's i'd be fine with paying a $5.00 stamp and being permanently covered unlike that bumpstock nonsense.

[Chucktshoes]

9 minutes ago, The Big Guy said:

I never jumped into purchasing/building one of these. Had I gotten into one of these and I was worried I'd probably just take the brace off. It's still a registered pistol lower, right? Assuming the majority are AR type pistols, is it illegal to shoulder a naked buffer tube? 

No, it’s not about the brace. They are declaring the pistol as an AOW. Brace or no, it’s an AOW. 

5 minutes ago, Magiccarpetrides said:

I'm not gonna worry either way...whatever will be will be...good idea to keep current on whatever the mood is though just to keep from getting a nasty surprise you weren't aware of later.  Honestly if they did make them all AOW's i'd be fine with paying a $5.00 stamp and being permanently covered unlike that bumpstock nonsense.

It’s $5 to transfer one that’s already been registered. It’s $200 to make one and initially register it. 

[DaveTN]

I suspect if Trump is reelected all this will go by the wayside for four more years. If Biden is elected I suspect this is just the beginning. I suspect the Dems will rehash hi-cap mags and everything else. They may even try a full AR ban. But I don’t think a Federal ban would make it through the SCOTUS; provided they would even hear it. It’s anybody’s guess though, mainly depends on who controls Congress.

At some point the SCOTUS has to do their job; we have a recognized right to bear arms, or we don’t.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Congress control is key.  No reason to whip people into a frenzy Obama did nada every election cycle we get the same fears and worries and mostly it’s all over blown this talk is the same reason ammo is being bought at you gotta be stupid to pay that much prices.  We are our own worst enemy.

[The Big Guy]

Gun control affecting hobby/self-defense/career-paths is one of those things that isn't likely to happen but when it does we will regret ever doubting its probability. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by The Big Guy