SBR travel with 16” barrel??

[maroonandwhite]

I came across a couple of postings on another site but can’t seem to find any proper documentation on this matter. 
 

The question is if I have an SBR filed lower configured in a state that would not define it as an SBR (16” barrel), could I then travel with it and use it as if it weren’t an SBR?

[DaveTN]

If you have a rifle that is not NFA by Federal law, or even if it is, you are bound by the laws of the state you are standing in.

[maroonandwhite]

1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

If you have a rifle that is not NFA by Federal law, or even if it is, you are bound by the laws of the state you are standing in.

Sorry but I didn’t realize my misuse of state in that phrase. State as in the current build of the rifle, not the actual state in the U.S.   

[Alleycat72]

I heard both ways. For one, who's going to know it is a registered sbr if it's 16". If they are looking you that close you probably have more to worry about than lack of paperwork that the atf doesn't even keep up with. If you're worried about it, just file the temporary move paperwork. The last thing would be that I've never heard of anyone getting clipped for not filling out the temporary move paperwork. I'm heading to Texas this weekend with a bunch of NFA, but we will not be traveling through any communist states. 

[DaveTN]

22 minutes ago, maroonandwhite said:

Sorry but I didn’t realize my misuse of state in that phrase. State as in the current build of the rifle, not the actual state in the U.S.   

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-pistol-rifle-without-registering-firearm

 

[maroonandwhite]

1 minute ago, DaveTN said:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-pistol-rifle-without-registering-firearm

 

That all makes sense but I’m not sure it applies to this situation. Maybe it does. 
 

Is my registered SBR lower considered a pistol that I can turn into an SBR by adding a stock less than 16” barrel?

Seems like this would never come up if the rifle was inspected but for some reason but you never know. 

[DaveTN]

17 minutes ago, maroonandwhite said:

That all makes sense but I’m not sure it applies to this situation. Maybe it does. 
 

Is my registered SBR lower considered a pistol that I can turn into an SBR by adding a stock less than 16” barrel?

Seems like this would never come up if the rifle was inspected but for some reason but you never know. 

It is my understanding if you have an NFA registered SBR (Tax Stamp) you can do what you want as long as you don’t change the NFA class. You are required to notify the ATF and have your form amended with additional configurations.

If you are asking if you can put a stock and a long barrel on a pistol lower you bought, and built a pistol that isn’t an NFA registered SBR; sure if it is a legal rifle.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

I'm not an attorney but I've been an NFA collector since 1994. An SBR by definition has barrel shorter than 16". If your receiver no longer has a shorter than 16" barrel on it then by definition it is not an SBR and is treated as a rifle not as a "short barrel rifle"  as long as the longer barrel is on it. So if you wanted to take your "SBR registered" AR lower with a sub 16" barrel out of state you have to file an ATF Form 5320.20 . But if you take off the sub 16" barrel upper and install a 16" barrel upper it no longer is by definition an SBR and no Form 5320.20 is necessary. It is still listed in the registry as an SBR but the actual configuration is NOT an SBR so SBR rules do not apply as long as it does not have a barrel shorter than 16" on it. It is not the same as a machinegun where if it was "once a machine gun always a machine gun". So while you cannot do anything to a machine gun to change its status (other than destroy it) you can install a barrel longer than 16" on your SBR lower and it no longer meets the definition so travel without filing a form is OK.  At least that is how I understand it. 

[Flyboy]

Wouldnt a Registered NFA SBR lower be a SBR lower no matter what size barrel it has on it, or even if it didnt have a barrel on it. Thus adding a 16 or 18 inch barrel its still a SBR and the paper work needs to be carried with it?

[Chucktshoes]

31 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Wouldnt a Registered NFA SBR lower be a SBR lower no matter what size barrel it has on it, or even if it didnt have a barrel on it. Thus adding a 16 or 18 inch barrel its still a SBR and the paper work needs to be carried with it?

Nope. 
 

I used to think that until I was corrected. 

[Oh Shoot]

On 10/26/2020 at 3:36 PM, Cruel Hand Luke said:

....you can install a barrel longer than 16" on your SBR lower and it no longer meets the definition so travel without filing a form is OK.  At least that is how I understand it. 

All correct, but note that to be completely scot free, you must not even have a short barrel in your possession, unless you also have something else it can legally be used on in a non-NFA configuration with you, which in this case would be an AR pistol.

"An NFA firearm is made if aggregated parts are in close proximity such that they serve no useful purpose other than to make an NFA firearm"

- OS

[RED333]

15 minutes ago, Oh Shoot said:

"An NFA firearm is made if aggregated parts are in close proximity such that they serve no useful purpose other than to make an NFA firearm"

So I am a rapist because I have a penis?

[Oh Shoot]

10 minutes ago, RED333 said:

So I am a rapist because I have a penis?

You can remove and reinstall different size penises? I'm impressed!

- OS

[RED333]

1 hour ago, Oh Shoot said:

You can remove and reinstall different size penises? I'm impressed!

- OS

There is a joke that goes like this.

A couple goes camping, husband fishes most of the day from a boat on the lake. Comes in for lunch and then takes a nap. During the nap the wife goes out on the boat gets in the sun to read. Game warden comes up and says ma’am you OK she said yes, I’m just reading a book. Game warning ask about the fishing gear. The wife says, it is my husbands. The game warden says ma’am I am sorry I have to give you a ticket you have all the gear to be fishing and no license. The woman says OK you need to be arrested as a rapist for you have a penis.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

2 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

All correct, but note that to be completely scot free, you must not even have a short barrel in your possession, unless you also have something else it can legally be used on in a non-NFA configuration with you, which in this case would be an AR pistol.

"An NFA firearm is made if aggregated parts are in close proximity such that they serve no useful purpose other than to make an NFA firearm"

- OS

Yeah I didn't really think I needed to qualify that but maybe so....

If you put a 16" upper on your SBR lower then you can take it out of state with no 5320.20 form. But you cannot also take the SBR upper along with you too. That would be what they refer to as "constructive possession" - assuming that because you have the sbr upper you are going to assemble the rifle with it. Now there are some murky legal waters in regards to that and Thompson Center won a case against ATF on that but the smart thing to do if travelling outside the state is to either file a 5320.20 form or put a 16" upper on it and leave the SBR upper at home.