Machine guns on the cheap

[Erich]

Let's say you are off the mind that an MP5 or M16 would be fun,  but 20k to 40k is just a little much. 

One could get their FFL7 with SOT 2, and then get all those at the sample prices, or turn your run of the mill AR into one. The cost to get these licenses is relatively cheap,  so there must be something I'm missing, else many would get them. 

I appreciate the government colonoscopy is a big detractor, along with being ok with your friendly neighborhood ATF agent being able to drop in at any time.

Let's say your not completely opposed to the scrutiny, any other large cost issues? Such as having to get a business license with a storefront? 

This got me thinking: 

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/879864410

Its either an ATF sting or there are guys that are converting their $79 receivers for fun or occasional sample sale.

[RED333]

I would not touch that, no way no how!!!

[70Stingray]

No no no way I’d buy that, but I’d like to know the measurements

[Johnny Rotten]

if the place is legit don't be surprised if they ask you for your SOT # if you want to buy a manufacturing tool.

You can buy a M16 FCG, selector and GI sear not showing a thing.

I had to show my stamp to buy a 12.5" quick change barrel from a manufacture.

 

[Ronald_55]

Let's say you buy that with the right stamps for AR #1, but you have 3 other ARs. You do not hold a class II manufacturing license I assume.  If the ATF agent that stops by isn't getting enough at home, got a speeding ticket on the way there, or any other crab inducing factors, he might just see the tool and other ARs as intent. And it is your word against theirs. You might win the court case... 10 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars later...

Just say no to ATF trap auctions. lol

[Erich]

Oh there is no way i would buy that, it's what got me thinking about getting an SOT and wondering what others don't get them to be able to legally do conversions. 

That's really what I was asking,  the link was due giggles.  So what about getting a SOT am I not seeing?

[Erich]

47 minutes ago, Johnny Rotten said:

You can buy a M16 FCG, selector and GI sear not showing a thing.

Huh,  I didn't know you could have a sear without a registered receiver. Thought they were constructive possession and why alot of surplus kits leave it out. 

 

[Johnny Rotten]

24 minutes ago, Erich said:

Huh,  I didn't know you could have a sear without a registered receiver. Thought they were constructive possession and why alot of surplus kits leave it out. 

 

There just parts

https://www.armsunlimited.com/Colt-M16-M4-AR15-Auto-Sear-Assembly-p/sp61622.htm

now maybe if you had a low shelf lower, M16 FCG, selector, gi sear, drill jig, that might be constructive intent, then you might want to hide your dog. 

[Alleycat72]

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/triggers-parts/triggers/m16-full-auto-triggers-prod128352.aspx

 

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/triggers-parts/sear-parts/sears/ar-15-auto-sear-with-spring-prod110102.aspx

[Johnny Rotten]

Where do I send my money

https://www.armsunlimited.com/FN-M240B-762mm-Belt-Fed-Machine-Gun-p/12976814.htm

https://www.armsunlimited.com/FN-M249-SAW-556mm-Belt-Fed-Machine-Gun-p/9348199.htm

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Johnny Rotten

[Alleycat72]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Rotten said:

Where do I send my money

https://www.armsunlimited.com/FN-M240B-762mm-Belt-Fed-Machine-Gun-p/12976814.htm

https://www.armsunlimited.com/FN-M249-SAW-556mm-Belt-Fed-Machine-Gun-p/9348199.htm

 

 

Free shipping. Sweet!

[DaveTN]

It is my understanding that to make a machine gun, you have to have the FFL & SOT, and a business license, making them for the government or LE. I don’t think you can just get a license and make them for yourself, but I could be wrong. My local laws don’t allow me to even do business as a standard 01 FFL in my home.

[billyblazes]

14 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

It is my understanding that to make a machine gun, you have to have the FFL & SOT, and a business license, making them for the government or LE. I don’t think you can just get a license and make them for yourself, but I could be wrong. My local laws don’t allow me to even do business as a standard 01 FFL in my home.

To go further, if you're acting as a manufacturer via your FFL & SOT you better also have a letter or contract with a government agency or police department.  I've read of guys claiming they were producing samples to demo and market to police departments but they had no solicitation from any law enforcement agency.  Their argument reportedly didn't get much traction with ATF.

[Erich]

Ah, making them for agencies. Thanks gents,  that's the kind of thought I was looking for.

Seems it's a little chicken or the egg. While it would be good to have a contracted agency first to ensure no questions on your intent under the license,you need the license before you could make a sample to solicit to get that contract.

Makes sense and would explain why they are not more prevalent. My initial thought was to sell samples via GB, personal use itch would be satisfied around testing. As any sold, more could made which would lead to more testing. I didn't see it as a volume requirement or showing it was a primary income stream. 

Think I may hit up a dealer I got my silencer thru, he put SBRs together for an agency here and may have some insights.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Erich

[TomInMN]

Bring engaged in the business is an important part of that license. Beyond that, I'm not positive on details. Doesn't the same license cover manufacture of MGs, SBRs, and suppressors? If so, you wouldn't necessarily have to have a going business in MGs on Day 1.

Also, keep in mind that R&D is a legitimate business function. (Just be sure you're eventually going to proceed from there!)

[Johnny Rotten]

20 hours ago, alleycat72 said:

Free shipping. Sweet!

missed that...BF for everyone

[Johnny Rotten]

9 hours ago, DaveTN said:

It is my understanding that to make a machine gun, you have to have the FFL & SOT, and a business license, making them for the government or LE. I don’t think you can just get a license and make them for yourself, but I could be wrong. My local laws don’t allow me to even do business as a standard 01 FFL in my home.

you can't make MG's for yourself at all.

I might be wrong but I've heard its almost impossible to get a law enforcement letter requesting demo,

[Quavodus]

Yeah, they're as illegal as murder. I think you can make your our own guns, just not full auto.

[1gewehr]

IF, you have a Manufacturer SOT license, you can make them for yourself, for other dealers, or agencies.  Renting a MG as part of a range is a legitimate business.  Almost all rental MGs are post-86 samples.