Retirement?

[Garufa]

10 minutes ago, Raoul said:

This thing has certainly wandered off the reservation

Is this your first visit to our community?  Welcome Raoul!  

[DaveTN]

12 minutes ago, Raoul said:

This thing has certainly wandered off the reservation

Well it had to. It started off with an old guy being pizzed off, a bunch of old retired happy guys jumped in, and some youngsters are mad that they can’t retire and afraid we are going to spend all their money. So it really had no reservation to wander off of. 

[Raoul]

11 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Well it had to. It started off with an old guy being pizzed off, a bunch of old retired happy guys jumped in, and some youngsters are mad that they can’t retire and afraid we are going to spend all their money. So it really had no reservation to wander off of. 

Best thing I've read all week. You guys rock. Back at cha Garufa.....

[peejman]

2 hours ago, gregintenn said:

If that is your attitude, that is your probably where you will end up.

A person’s income, and lot in life for that matter is only guided by a few things. His health, ability, drive, and imagination.

You aren’t tied to your current job. I expect your wife can work. You can also pick up after hours work. There are as many options as your imagination allows. If you are happy where you are, great. If not, find someone who is where you want to be and figure out what they are doing differently from you.

I'm not tied to my current job but I've been unable to find something better that doesn't involve way more hours.  I certainly didnt expect that 20 years after a masters degree in engineering that I'd still be one of the minions.

Those i know who've been promoted either work much more than I'm willing too, or were completely useless and got moved up so they could do less harm. I put in my share of 80+ hr weeks and its just not worth it.  Some sort of side hustle would be nice, except i have to sleep some time. My kids are young and still want me around, that's more important to me than money. 

My wife currently homeschools our kids, 9 more years if they continue through high school. 

[gregintenn]

13 minutes ago, peejman said:

I'm not tied to my current job but I've been unable to find something better that doesn't involve way more hours.  I certainly didnt expect that 20 years after a masters degree in engineering that I'd still be one of the minions.

Those i know who've been promoted either work much more than I'm willing too, or were completely useless and got moved up so they could do less harm. I put in my share of 80+ hr weeks and its just not worth it.  Some sort of side hustle would be nice, except i have to sleep some time. My kids are young and still want me around, that's more important to me than money. 

My wife currently homeschools our kids, 9 more years if they continue through high school. 

That’s awesome. I agree that family is more important than money. What I disagreed with was your statement that there was no way a “working stiff” could retire comfortably. You just stated several reasons why you aren’t willing to do what it takes. 
 

Please don’t take my post the wrong way. I think you are making some great decisions. It’s just that I fully believe you could become wealthy were that your goal. I think you have better goals.

Edited September 17, 2020 by gregintenn

[No_0ne]

2 hours ago, Raoul said:

This thing has certainly wandered off the reservation

Any takers on how long before it becomes a "gays" thread ...

[TomInMN]

8 minutes ago, No_0ne said:

Any takers on how long before it becomes a "gays" thread ...

Well, I mean, to the extent that same-sex couples tend to not have kids at a higher rate than heterosexual couples, it's probably easier for them to retire comfortably...

[gregintenn]

5 minutes ago, TomInMN said:

Well, I mean, to the extent that same-sex couples tend to not have kids at a higher rate than heterosexual couples, it's probably easier for them to retire comfortably...

What??!!? Can’t a guy get in touch with his feminine side once in a while?

[btq96r]

This has been a good thread.  Retirement is something on my mind as well, even though I'm a few years shy of 40, now's the time I should be thinking and planning for it, right?  I'd love to retire at 60 if I can be financially independent.  Seeing my Dad in his early 70s is letting me know a mental decline could be sooner than I would hope, so getting some good retirement years in for travel and experiences before I have to go low key would be nice.  But like others here, medical coverage is where I keep coming back to.  It's sad that my seemingly best option would be foreign residency where healthcare is provided or very low cost. 

If Medicare lowered their age to 60 or even a few years less, I think more people would retire, or reduce their hours to part time where benefits don't kick in.   More people retiring or talking less hours would open up positions or time for younger workers, letting them earn more, which should be a good thing to the unemployment rate.  More flexibility in lifestyle would be a positive society benefit for sure to those who would want to take more gentle slope to retirement instead of just working full bore until they hit Medicare eligibility.  I'd say any savings a company made in insurance costs would find their way to employees or investment in the business...but I know how the world works when profit is found on a balance sheet.

We can argue over the ways government would have to pay for it (some indivudial contribution between 60 and 65 isn't a non-starter), but lowering the Medicare age has the potential to be an overall benefit to companies that would be able to reduce their costs of insurance.  Say what you want about government run healthcare (ie: the Veterans Health System), but government insurance like Medicare and Medicaid works well enough.  It's a fixed rate that has less surprises for patients than commercial insurance, and doesn't put a company with profit motive on the decision line for approving procedures.

[DaveTN]

I think both sides want a health care plan that will work. All anyone has to do is say how their plan will work, who will be covered, and how it will be paid for. So far, those are big stumbling blocks. The biggest stumbling blocks I see right now is health care or illegals, and everyone having the same level of care, whether they work or not. Some are going to see any amount being paid as too much. Also, some here are talking like Medicare is free. Medicare isn’t free and if you want full coverage it can get pretty pricey for someone in retirement.

One of the things I don’t see too often is the discussion out the exorbitant rates charged in the medical industry. If it’s a government plan for everyone; they will be sitting the rates for what they will pay a Doctor or a hospital, and private insurance will be gone. That will also mean a lot of jobs lost, other than those absorbed into government positions.

[btq96r]

19 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

One of the things I don’t see too often is the discussion out the exorbitant rates charged in the medical industry. If it’s a government plan for everyone; they will be sitting the rates for what they will pay a Doctor or a hospital, and private insurance will be gone. That will also mean a lot of jobs lost, other than those absorbed into government positions.

There's a huge difference in what the medical industry charges, and what they collect via contract with commercial payors.  It's honestly as messed a practice as anything I've seen when a physician will accept one rate from Medicare, that rate plus say 50% from a commercial payor, and charge an individual the Medicare rate plus say 100% if they are uninsured.

The job losses might not be as many as you think.  It's more intensive for doctors and hospitals to do billing and collection for private insurance than it is for Medicare; and honestly, plenty of that is outsourced overseas.  As to what jobs would be lost at insurance companies if they were removed from the system...Medicare uses private companies in different regions to administrate the claims & payment process, so as Medicare claims rose, they would need to add staffing to meet demand on processing them.  Very transferable skills for someone working in a cubical (or remote these days probably) at Blue Cross or Humana to do essentially the same job for a government contracted company.

[peejman]

34 minutes ago, btq96r said:

There's a huge difference in what the medical industry charges, and what they collect via contract with commercial payors.  It's honestly as messed a practice as anything I've seen when a physician will accept one rate from Medicare, that rate plus say 50% from a commercial payor, and charge an individual the Medicare rate plus say 100% if they are uninsured.

This is a great point, and a significant issue for those uninsured. One of the biggest benefits of medical insurance is their negotiated rates for various services. 

As an example, I had hernia surgery several years ago. One of the line items on the bill that I recall was something generic like "surgical equipment fee" $8000.  My insurance's negotiated rate for that item was $200.  So an uninsured person gets stuck with $8000 while the benefit of my insurance was a 40x reduction in that cost. That's madness.  

Its quite certain that an uninsured person wouldn't end up paying $8000, but to me that illustrates a major problem in the industry. The only conclusion I can draw is theres some "creative accounting" going on behind the scenes. 

[gregintenn]

The medical industry went off the reservation when consumers were disconnected from the price of the product/service. Call a hospital and ask how much they'd charge to remove your gall bladder. They wouldn't have a clue. I know of no other industry that operates this way.

Another problem we've run into is the cold, hard fact that we have the ability to do more things than we can afford to do. We all love our families, but is it economically sustainable to do a million dollars worth of medical procedures to granny who is 95 and doesn't even know where she's at? Is it really even doing her any favors regardless of who pays the bill? These are some tough questions that will soon have to be answered.

I understand the emotional side of making all healthcare available to everyone, but it simply does not work on a calculator.

I do know that an ever increasing tax burden on the working folks of this country isn't the way to solve it.

I also know that a lot of folks will go to the doctor or emergency room when it isn't necessary as long as there isn't a cost to them. Make them pay a few hundred bucks, and they will discover alternative measures to deal with whatever ails them.

Edited September 17, 2020 by gregintenn

[DaveTN]

58 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

The medical industry went off the reservation when consumers were disconnected from the price of the product/service. Call a hospital and ask how much they'd charge to remove your gall bladder. They wouldn't have a clue. I know of no other industry that operates this way.

Another problem we've run into is the cold, hard fact that we have the ability to do more things than we can afford to do. We all love our families, but is it economically sustainable to do a million dollars worth of medical procedures to granny who is 95 and doesn't even know where she's at? Is it really even doing her any favors regardless of who pays the bill? These are some tough questions that will soon have to be answered.

I understand the emotional side of making all healthcare available to everyone, but it simply does not work on a calculator.

I do know that an ever increasing tax burden on the working folks of this country isn't the way to solve it.

I also know that a lot of folks will go to the doctor or emergency room when it isn't necessary as long as there isn't a cost to them. Make them pay a few hundred bucks, and they will discover alternative measures to deal with whatever ails them.

There are a lot of problems to deal with. You are willing to play God based on a calculator. And that may have to be the case, but many in Congress aren’t willing to do that.

Lets say that’s not Grandma, but its your 35 year old wife who was healthy and without warning just dropped from a brain aneurysm. The Doctors don’t think she will survive, but they don’t know that for sure. You have two young daughters to raise. Keeping her alive will bankrupt your family in short order. But if you have government insurance that will pay it, you will wait and see. Who plays God, the government health care provider??

Or your daughter has a rare condition that is usually fatal. But she is on a wonder drug that costs $35K a year, and is keeping her alive and leading a somewhat normal life. What if the government won’t pay it? And if they didn’t pay it, would drugs like those exist.

I don’t have the answers, I’m just throwing out that its not all cut and dried. I don’t think illegals should have free health care at our expense, but it appears half the country does not agree.

Yes, people should not be allowed to go to the ER for non emergency situations. But many go for emergency care, car wrecks, heart attacks, shooting, etc. Many aren’t going to pay; they can’t. But they are going to be treated.

There is a lot to work out. But I like to believe that like with problems in industry, if the leaders (Congress) were forced to work with Doctors and other professionals to work out a resolution; they could. Will everyone be happy with the results? Highly doubtful.

[gregintenn]

Dave, I trust you realize government created this problem. You have more faith than I do if you expect them to fix it.

[Garufa]

Entering your golden years gets even cheerier when you consider living arrangements.

What happens when you can’t really take care of yourself or your home?

Independent living place?  That’s starts at roughly  $2,000-$2,500 a month for a one room apartment in a decent place.  Private pay.

Assisted living?  Need help with your daily functions,  Smaller room than independent living starting at $3,000-$3,500 a month.  Private pay.

Nursing home? Private pay until you run out of money and can then get on TennCare (Medicaid).  Then you are allowed $50/month for personal needs that the nursing home will charge you for, like laundry and diapers.  $5,500/month for a shared room in hell.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Garufa

[FUJIMO]

8 minutes ago, Garufa said:

Entering your golden years gets even cheerier when you consider living arrangements.

What happens when you can’t really take care of yourself or your home?

Independent living place?  That’s starts at roughly  $2,000-$2,500 a month for a one room apartment in a decent place.  Private pay.

Assisted living?  Need help with your daily functions,  Smaller room than independent living starting at $3,000-$3,500 a month.  Private pay.

Nursing home? Private pay until you run out of money and can then get on TennCare (Medicaid).  Then you are allowed $50/month for personal needs that the nursing home will charge you for, like laundry and diapers.  $5,500/month for a shared room in hell.

NAILED IT !

[DaveTN]

13 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Dave, I trust you realize government created this problem. You have more faith than I do if you expect them to fix it.

I don’t trust the government. How else is it going to get fixed? I’m not arguing; that’s a question. Doing nothing means the working stiffs continue to pay monthly premiums that are crazy.

[Alleycat72]

13 hours ago, Garufa said:

Entering your golden years gets even cheerier when you consider living arrangements.

What happens when you can’t really take care of yourself or your home?

Independent living place?  That’s starts at roughly  $2,000-$2,500 a month for a one room apartment in a decent place.  Private pay.

Assisted living?  Need help with your daily functions,  Smaller room than independent living starting at $3,000-$3,500 a month.  Private pay.

Nursing home? Private pay until you run out of money and can then get on TennCare (Medicaid).  Then you are allowed $50/month for personal needs that the nursing home will charge you for, like laundry and diapers.  $5,500/month for a shared room in hell.

Or you can rob a bank. You'll get room and board for free.

[Alleycat72]

Glad I don’t have to worry about social security.

[gregintenn]

25 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

I don’t trust the government. How else is it going to get fixed? I’m not arguing; that’s a question. Doing nothing means the working stiffs continue to pay monthly premiums that are crazy.

The way to fix it is to remove government interference and let the free market do what it does. I know...good luck getting that done.

[Alleycat72]

Just now, gregintenn said:

The way to fix it is to remove government interference and let the free market do what it does. I know...good luck getting that done.

That exactly what happened in my situation. Haven't paid SS since I graduated from college and I'll never get a dime from it. My Wife will also never receive SS except she has to pay into the system.

[gregintenn]

2 minutes ago, alleycat72 said:

That exactly what happened in my situation. Haven't paid SS since I graduated from college and I'll never get a dime from it. My Wife will also never receive SS except she has to pay into the system.

I would have loved to have had the option of opting out of social security.

Why won’t your wife be able to draw from it?

[DaveTN]

13 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

The way to fix it is to remove government interference and let the free market do what it does. I know...good luck getting that done.

How is the free market not doing its job now? I think you can see from what’s going on now you can’t tell the poor to “get a job”. In a free market, the insurance companies will charge you whatever they like. Is that not what’s happening now? How will that help the people on this forum that say their rates are ridiculous, or that they can’t afford insurance?

[Alleycat72]

2 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I would have loved to have had the option of opting out of social security.

Why won’t your wife be able to draw from it?

She has to choose SS or my plan at retirement. She'll choose my plan and her contributions will be rolled into my retirement. At that point she'll get 49% of what I receive.