Rethinking EDC

[Dennis1209]

"Better to have and not need, than need and not have"

I'm now 68 years old [an old man], and I don't recognize the nation I grew up in. This will most likely turn into another long rant. 

We live in a dangerous world, and it's getting more dangerous by the day. Lawlessness, protests and rioting is breaking out in many places; some of our local, city, state governments, federal representatives and citizenry are supporting and condoning those organizations illegal actions and not being prosecuted. When the police arrest these criminals, the DA'S and prosecutor's are refusing to charge them. Jails are being emptied via this purported pandemic. Law enforcement officers are quitting and retiring by the groves in protest, as well as blue flu and refusing to do certain things. Major efforts are under way to de-fund a variety of police departments and services, on and on...

I have never seen more hate, intolerance and division in my lifetime, it's everywhere and no one is exempt. All this in addition to the regular crimes of opportunity, home invasions, murders, drug cartels / addicts and the mentally ill we have contended with. We're all aware of the hate crimes committed nationally and in Tennessee, of churches, synagogues, mosques and places of worship in the recent past.

I'm a member of a small country Baptist church. Attending last Sunday evening service, I noticed a picture on the bulletin board as I walked through the foyer; I wondered what that was all about? Before service began, our Pastor had that picture in hand and told us all about it. The Pastor had picked up some church material from our district office, and given the picture and what's happening. Some guy is making his rounds around our area, barging in to worship services and disrupting them; yelling everyone of you is going to Hell. This person was identified by the police and has a long history of mental illness and violent behavior. The police are currently trying to locate him. This in addition to all the previous mentions.

With this covid-19 scare going on, church attendance has been drastically reduced as it is. With the few people their last Sunday evening; was a young lady with her two children, and she asked a question that was and has been on everyone's mind; she asked, "do we have any church security?" Well, our new Pastor fumbled around and hee hawed and sort of danced around the question. Our congregation has legitimate safety concerns. Our Pastor is relatively new, replacing our previous Pastor, and not knowing the history of this question brought up and acted upon several years ago. He basically said; before service begins the doors are locked and someone was at the door to monitor it, and let late arrivals in. Then a brief mention was made by me that there were a few folks in the congregation that had HCP'S and carried in church. I didn't mention I was one of them. In the past the pastors and congregation have encouraged and supported its members to be legally armed, and it's still the attitude and in force.

During that string of church shootings in Tennessee, Texas and elsewhere, our member were very concerned and afraid, and rightfully so. We adopted the policy to lock and secure the doors when service began, and had a volunteer to monitor and open the door for late comers and monitor who entered if they were strangers. We installed eight Harbor Freight security camera's; of which four cameras have already failed, and the two people who knew how to operate the system and software are no longer with us.

We invited at that time our county Sheriff, Monty Belew, who since just retired, to come and give us a security inspection and advice. Many churches in our area did the same thing. He came with several of his deputies and gave us some pointers to improve on, and we had a question and answer session [but he's not a lawyer]. I posed the question of "church security teams", his thoughts and the legalities thereof. 

He cautioned that if we formally adopted a "church security team" we could find ourselves in hot water, legality issues and lawsuit's as an organization, should this security team have to act in one way or another. Being a small church, we cannot afford too much, and loss of a civil suit would most likely close our doors. It was more or less realized that it was up to the individual alone, to decide what if anything they were going to do security wise. With a new Pastor, new members and attendees, and length of time its been since the preceding, we need to revisit and update everyone's security concerns. Schools and churches are soft targets for cowards as we all know.

Security team training and qualifications, aside from legal matters: I'm a combat veteran with 20 years of military service. In my military tenure I qualified expert with rifle and pistol. I'm a lifelong hunter. I'm a member of the local county gun club and shoot frequent rifle and pistol matches and continually practice, a former IDPA Range officer and current USPSA Range Officer. I'm better than average in competition shoots and scores. All that to say; that my training, experience and background are perishable and doesn't translate to squat pertaining to qualifications, skill and ability, to participate in a security detail; especially with my age and associated physical restrictions. 

These other church members that CCW to church are about my age also. In the years I've lived in this area, I've never seen one of them at any of the ranges around here or at the local gun shops? I can't help but to wonder, if they even know the four rules for safe gun handling, do any practice or train at all? What would it be like if anything were to occur; what would they do and how? What would I do, and how?

Which lead me back to, "better to have and not need, than need and not have". I attend church to worship my Lord and Savior and dress in a respectful and honoring manner. I won't go to church dressed and equipped like G.I. Joe, but I think in my case it might be prudent to make a couple of changes in my church and EDC gear. 

Past practice has been most of the time, but not all, going to town, church or short errands; just grabbing my selected EDC pistol and nothing else, maybe sticking it in the console because I'm lazy and in a hurry. I very seldom carry my smart phone anywhere, because it's a hassle and an inconvenience and I always leave it on the kitchen table and walk out. Our little country church does not have any phone at all. What if any emergency occurred and I needed to call someone? Am I lazy or what? I don't know how many times I wished I had a pen and little note pad to write down something so I wouldn't forget, a phone number or information to retrieve later. 

The last thing I ever want to do is have to draw my weapon, and worse yet use it. Is it as or more likely another option might be more suitable and prudent to use rather than a firearm? I can think of a number of scenario's where pepper spray might be more appropriate and lessen any criminal and civil liabilities. It at least gives another option to escape or gain control? 

So, the changes I'm going to make are: In addition to always remembering to take and have my firearm on me everywhere I go, and not leaving it home for short trips, to my mailbox 200 yards away, etc. [trouble finds you and it's fast and never expected]. To be prepared for a worst case scenario and have a spare magazine in my pocket, vest or mag carrier. I'm undecided about carrying a small backup weapon, unless or until society and lawlessness gets worse. Start to carry my cell phone everywhere I go for emergencies [would also be an excellent tool for video evidence and documentation]. And lastly a decent CCW vest that covers my IWB or OWB holster, looks nice and not tactical, that holds my phone, pen & small tablet and some gizmos. 

I'd like to hear your thoughts if your EDC has changed from last year, and why. For those of you who attend church; I'd like to know how you handle church security if any? Your thoughts, plans and actions with the aftermath of legal and civil proceedings resulting from any confrontations and actions taken in the event that force is used in your church?

 

[Defender]

Cant go wrong in these days to think about these things.  I err on the side of carrying a little too much stuff. Seems like there was a really good podcast on our sister site here about church security issues.  You might check it out,  Also, I think you are right about liability and also the training status of fellow churchgoers.  I'd suggest seeing about forming a committee of like minded folks who might be interested in helping.  At the least, I would want to know where the other 'guns' are in case I had to sue mine there, and have some kind of idea of what they will do. Lastly, I saw this online and it might give you some ideas:  https://sheepdogchurchsecurity.net/church-security-guide/

[DWARREN123]

It is good only if you have it on you.

Phone, knife, HCP with other appropriate ID. My carry firearm with at least one spare mag. Other items I feel I might need or want to hand.

I wish to never have to use a weapon of any kind but I will to defend myself, family and any others as I see fit.

Training is something very important to have with you but some do not feel it is needed for SD/HD situations.

[peejman]

I darn near always carry at church, though I haven't been in the building but twice in the last 6 months. Our church is split into 2 buildings across the street from each other. I know we employ one off duty LEO on Sundays, I do not know if there is  formal security team or plan. A few church staff have walkie-talkies, but that's all I've seen. 

All exterior doors are supposed to be locked except those with greeters. Ive been a greeter on many occasions and have been told nothing other than to close the door when the service starts.

The building I'm usually in is very old and virtually indefensible. It's been added onto several times, is 3 levels built into a hill, and there's way more exterior doors than could be covered, not to mention all the ground level windows. 

My guess is the staff thinks a police car sitting in the parking lot at the other building is a talisman that keeps the bad people away. That said, I do not know of any instances of security concerns. 

Oh yeah... there are a couple very good podcasts on shooters Nation regarding church security. 

https://www.shootersnation.com/podcast/017-church-safety-security-teams-with-us-navy-seal-william/

Edited September 10, 2020 by peejman

[DaveTN]

Things have changed. In over 20 years in this house I never felt the need to carry at home. But I did when the protests were going on here.

My own personal rules for the use of deadly force were always pretty tight. But knowing now that charges are race based, I’ve even tightened them up more. Staying out of jail, but being financially devastated by a DA run amok is not something I see as a win.

We need changes in the deadly force laws here, and across the country.

[Grayfox54]

For years I always carried my Colt Commander and 2 spare mags. But admittedly over the last few years I've gotten lazy. More often than not I just carry my little S&W 642 or Colt Mustang. However, considering the current state of things, I've gone back to my Commander with the extra mags. 

I've also given thought to a less lethal secondary weapon. I don't want to shoot anybody if I can help it. Maybe pepper spray.

Some years ago, I somehow acquired one of those collapsible batons. I've never carried it, but now I'm considering sticking it in my back pocket.  Anybody use one? Thoughts on the subject? 

[DaveTN]

17 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

Some years ago, I somehow acquired one of those collapsible batons. I've never carried it, but now I'm considering sticking it in my back pocket.  Anybody use one? Thoughts on the subject? 

Might work for a small dog, or maybe a cat.

[The Big Guy]

I now carry 3 mags for what it's worth; 49 rounds total. 

After seeing Kyle Rittenhouse defend himself against the first guy... then to be chased by a crowd and attacked by several others after shots had already been fired... 

Some of these people are really dumb. So dumb in fact they'll chase after someone who just used his firearm, and then attack that person again. 

I'd rather have too much than too little since 2020 is a flaming dumpster fire.

 

[Defender]

31 minutes ago, crake said:

I now carry 3 mags for what it's worth; 49 rounds total. 

After seeing Kyle Rittenhouse defend himself against the first guy... then to be chased by a crowd and attacked by several others after shots had already been fired... 

Some of these people are really dumb. So dumb in fact they'll chase after someone who just used his firearm, and then attack that person again. 

I'd rather have too much than too little since 2020 is a flaming dumpster fire.

 

I also usually carry extra.  I keep one spare mag for my primary on me, and several more along with an extra box of ammo in my bag, as well as 2 spare mags for my backup.  If things keep going sideways, I can see taking a long gun along as well.

[hipower]

Very good topic here. I've enjoyed it and been thinking on it as well.

Point 1, I'm not a regular church goer. I know that's my failing. I intend to remedy that with my wife.

Point 2, Dennis, I really liked your post. It's well thought out and asks the right questions. Too bad I don't have all the answers. But you are working in that direction, so I feel you are moving in a fashion you need to be.

Your comment a bout a good CCW vest is very intriguing. I wore a lot of vests back in my high school days, But I was a much slimmer guy back then. lol Anyway I like vests and always like one with the few suits I own. I've seen some carry vests and not cared for most, but it's time to look again.

I would say that one with a built in weapon/mag holder is my take for one, I think it's a bit less "look I got something to hide" than one long enough to cover for IWB/OWB carry.

Just my thought on the matter. I recently ran across an old Galco shoulder rig I got in a`

  buy long ago. Really go me to looking at how I would use it. Being way too round, it of course doesn't fit right. I need to lengthen the belt hooks.

I'm really liking this and a vest as something for me. I'm going to give it a try. With the "anything goes" in clothing these days, I believe and old guy like me can pull it off. Maybe.

Point 3, Batons. I've really wondered about them. Are they legal for civilians? Heard yes and no on them. I like the idea of an expandable stick in my pocket or on a belt. Even in the hands of a novice, these can be a formidable weapon. Very close range though, and I'd think one had better be in good enough shape to not have it taken away on used on oneself. That could be very bad.

So, in my rambling reply...any thoughts or comments? They will always be appreciated.   

 

[TGO David]

@Dennis1209 -- I am a member of my church's safety team.  We take an "all hazards" approach, meaning we try to be ready to deal with any manner of emergency.  Be it a medical issue (the most likely scenario), or a weather disaster, a disruptive visitor or attendee, a domestic squabble (especially involving child custody) and of course the aggressive human actor.

Our church carries insurance especially for the safety team and those of us that go armed are held to the same standards as Tennessee's Armed Guard program as far as proficiency with sidearms and regularity of qualification in controlled, administered drills.  We choose to push ourselves far beyond that standard in terms of proficiency.

My weekly "load out" for church has become close to what an undercover police officer might carry, albeit without body armor and handcuffs.  I do carry a handgun, concealed, two spare magazines, a knife, a flashlight, a tourniquet, an Individual First Aid Kit (IFAK) with gunshot / blowout supplies, my smartphone and a two-way radio with earpiece.   This is honestly pretty standard for the members of my team.  Our church is fairly casual, and all of this hides pretty easily under a button-up, untucked fishing / camp shirt and inside the pockets of camp/cargo pants or jeans.

 

The best advice that I can give you is two things:

1.) Your church should have an organized approach to safety and your primary objective regarding bad human actors should be to keep the threat outside the church.

2.) I would contact Ken Alexandrow at Agape Tactical here in the Franklin, TN area.  He and his team do church security consulting and training and he can clear away any myths or misconceptions that you and your church leadership might have heard from well-intentioned but badly informed people in the past.

https://agapetactical.com/services/church-security-planning/

 

Finally, you are right to be asking these questions and to be concerned about the safety of your congregation.  This world will only become increasingly hostile to followers of Jesus Christ.

 

[The Big Guy]

I don't know about the baton thing personally. It makes me wonder how fast a baton fight could turn into a knife fight, in which case you're at a disadvantage because you are now reacting to them raising the stakes. I'd probably get some bear mace if I wanted a non-lethal with some reach. 

[The Big Guy]

Also, practice shooting from retention and clearing malfunctions (just in case clothing, or some other contact with the slide induces a malfunction. or just carry a wheel gun lol). It's easy to forget training this sort of technique.

[TGO David]

1 minute ago, crake said:

I don't know about the baton thing personally. It makes me wonder how fast a baton fight could turn into a knife fight, in which case you're at a disadvantage because you are now reacting to them raising the stakes. I'd probably get some bear mace if I wanted a non-lethal with some reach. 

Chemical sprays are a problematic approach inside of a confined space.  Also consider how any parishioners with respiratory problems, diminished health, or how children might respond to inhaling it.   Pepper gels are a lot more controlled but still also problematic for the good guys trying to physically subdue a person who has become combative enough to warrant using them.

Employing impact weapons can be just as risky as employing a knife or gun.  All of these things require training.  Tennessee requires a baton certification for security guards who will carry an impact weapon, recognizing that one used improperly can be plenty lethal.  The term "less lethal" as relates to these things still has the word "lethal" in it for a reason.

 

De-escalation while moving the threat outside the building is the most powerful tool that a person can attempt to use.  If you can't de-escalate and it becomes violent, the dynamics of the situation will unfortunately dictate what the right level of response is.

 

[TGO David]

2 minutes ago, crake said:

Also, practice shooting from retention and clearing malfunctions (just in case clothing, or some other contact with the slide induces a malfunction. or just carry a wheel gun lol). It's easy to forget training this sort of technique.

Watch the security camera footage of the West Freeway Church of Christ (White Settlement, Texas) church shooting from last year.  The second member of the church to be shot by the gunman was an armed safety team member who clearly was having trouble clearing his firearm from his holster, beneath his sport coat.  The delay likely contributed to his unfortunate fate.

Whatever you carry, become very proficient with it.  Obsessively and regularly practice drawing from your form of concealment.  Figure out what works and what doesn't, and then only use the carry position and carry gear that works.  Don't change up your gear or carry method without obsessively and regularly practicing until deploying it is second nature.

Free advice. 

 

[The Big Guy]

10 hours ago, TGO David said:

Watch the security camera footage of the West Freeway Church of Christ (White Settlement, Texas) church shooting from last year.  The second member of the church to be shot by the gunman was an armed safety team member who clearly was having trouble clearing his firearm from his holster, beneath his sport coat.  The delay likely contributed to his unfortunate fate.

Whatever you carry, become very proficient with it.  Obsessively and regularly practice drawing from your form of concealment.  Figure out what works and what doesn't, and then only use the carry position and carry gear that works.  Don't change up your gear or carry method without obsessively and regularly practicing until deploying it is second nature.

Free advice. 

 

Yeah, I saw that footage on bitchute. 

Thanks for the advice. I dry fire with my setup and a shot timer almost everyday. Before corona I was shooting in my backyard everyday and shooting IDPA or USPSA every Saturday. 

I don't know anything about knife fighting or baton fighting, and never used bear mace so I'll likely just stick with my handgun and deescalation. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by crake

[TGO David]

10 minutes ago, crake said:

I don't know anything about knife fighting or baton fighting, and never used bear mace so I'll likely just stick with my handgun and deescalation. 

I saw you mentioned IDPA and USPSA.

I use my PACT-3 shot timer indoors during dry-fire practice.  I set up a man-sized upper torso silhouette target in a bonus room.  I move to a spot 7 yards away from it, set a par time on the PACT timer, and then practice drawing from concealment and getting my shot within or under par.   

I have to be brutally honest with myself during these sessions for it to be of any value.  It only counts if I was within par and had a sight picture that would have done the job when I broke the trigger.  If I lie to myself here and accept a shot that would have missed, it's worthless.

This has been incredibly valuable for me both before and during the ammo shortage.

[The Big Guy]

2 minutes ago, TGO David said:

I saw you mentioned IDPA and USPSA.

I use my PACT-3 shot timer indoors during dry-fire practice.  I set up a man-sized upper torso silhouette target in a bonus room.  I move to a spot 7 yards away from it, set a par time on the PACT timer, and then practice drawing from concealment and getting my shot within or under par.   

I have to be brutally honest with myself during these sessions for it to be of any value.  It only counts if I was within par and had a sight picture that would have done the job when I broke the trigger.  If I lie to myself here and accept a shot that would have missed, it's worthless.

This has been incredibly valuable for me both before and during the ammo shortage.

The draw has always been my weakness. It's a point of frustration for me. Best I can do in dry fire on a 7-10 yard target from concealment is 1.5 seconds and this translates to my live fire time as well. This draw time seems to be my average speed in IDPA and USPSA as well but doesn't matter on the long technical stages because I make up the extra 0.5 seconds with efficiency and typically finish with a very good stage time/score. 

I've read 2 of Ben Stoegers Dry Fire books and they are excellent. They are geared toward USPSA but it doesn't matter because the dry fire drills can be adapted to anything really. He also includes some world class, and incredibly humbling PAR times for these drills. Following his books has added a lot of structure to my dry fire routine. 

I also bought some of 1/4, 1/3 and 1/2 size IDPA targets. I used them to set up simple drills and stages in my office. I set a PAR time if one isn't in a book or online somewhere and keep practicing it, driving the PAR time down. Then I keep trying to beat my own best time. 

You are correct about dry fire. It must be done with solid fundamentals every single time. 

Ben Stoeger dry fire books I've read: 

https://www.amazon.com/DryFire-Reloaded-Ben-Stoeger/dp/1542880246

https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Pistol-Reloaded-Ben-Stoeger/dp/1533397716

Here is a youtube playlist geared toward practical shooting that I've put together over the years. You probably already know most of the content but may find some of the theories to be interesting, especially when heard from some of the best in the world. 

 

[DaveTN]

12 hours ago, hipower said:

Point 3, Batons. I've really wondered about them. Are they legal for civilians? Heard yes and no on them. I like the idea of an expandable stick in my pocket or on a belt. Even in the hands of a novice, these can be a formidable weapon. Very close range though, and I'd think one had better be in good enough shape to not have it taken away on used on oneself. That could be very bad.

So, in my rambling reply...any thoughts or comments? They will always be appreciated.   

 

You must have a certification to use a Baton, and you must not be prohibited from purchasing a firearm under any local, state or federal laws.

As someone that has used mace and a baton a lot, I’ll offer the following.... Both are non lethal,  or less lethal and could fall into the category of “Better than nothing” against an unarmed person. I’ve had big men in fights fall and cry when I maced them, and I’ve had them that acted like you were spraying water on them. They are good tools for cops that are trying to subdue someone that wants to fight. But with us being old men, the best we could hope for with mace would be it might cause them to leave. With a baton, it would have to be used on someone that doesn’t have the physical ability to take it away from you and beat your azz with it; not likely for us old guys. Mace is good to have if a dog attacks you. You can repel them without having to hurt them.

As far as the legality of a baton goes, here is the law…

39-17-1307. Unlawful carrying or possession of a weapon.

(a)

(1) A person commits an offense who carries, with the intent to go armed, a firearm or a club.

(2)

(A) The first violation of subdivision (a)(1) is a Class C misdemeanor, and, in addition to possible imprisonment as provided by law, may be punished by a fine not to exceed five hundred dollars ($500).

(B) A second or subsequent violation of subdivision (a)(1) is a Class B misdemeanor.

(C) A violation of subdivision (a)(1) is a Class A misdemeanor if the person's carrying of a handgun occurred at a place open to the public where one (1) or more persons were present.

(b)

(1) A person commits an offense who unlawfully possesses a firearm, as defined in § 39-11-106, and:

(A) Has been convicted of a felony crime of violence, an attempt to commit a felony crime of violence, or a felony involving use of a deadly weapon; or

(B) Has been convicted of a felony drug offense.

(2) An offense under subdivision (b)(1)(A) is a Class B felony.

(3) An offense under subdivision (b)(1)(B) is a Class C felony.

(c)

(1) A person commits an offense who possesses a handgun and has been convicted of a felony unless:

(A) The person has been pardoned for the offense;

(B) The felony conviction has been expunged; or

(C) The person's civil rights have been restored pursuant to title 40, chapter 29, and the restoration order does not specifically prohibit the person from possessing firearms.

(2) An offense under subdivision (c)(1) is a Class E felony.

(d)

(1) A person commits an offense who possesses a deadly weapon other than a firearm with the intent to employ it during the commission of, attempt to commit, or escape from a dangerous offense as defined in § 39-17-1324.

(2) A person commits an offense who possesses any deadly weapon with the intent to employ it during the commission of, attempt to commit, or escape from any offense not defined as a dangerous offense by § 39-17-1324.

(3)

(A) Except as provided in subdivision (d)(3)(B), a violation of this subsection (d) is a Class E felony.

(B) A violation of this subsection (d) is a Class E felony with a maximum fine of six thousand dollars ($6,000), if the deadly weapon is a switchblade knife.

(e)

(1) It is an exception to the application of subsection (a) that a person is carrying or possessing a firearm, loaded firearm, or firearm ammunition in a motor vehicle or boat if the person:

(A) Is not prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm by 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) or purchasing a firearm by § 39-17-1316; and

(B) Is in lawful possession of the motor vehicle or boat.

(2)

(A) As used in this subsection (e):

(i) “Boat” means any watercraft, other than a seaplane on the water, designed and used primarily for navigation or transportation on the water; and

(ii) “Motor vehicle” has the same meaning as defined in § 55-1-103.

(B) This subsection (e) shall not apply to a motor vehicle or boat that is:

(i) Owned or leased by a governmental or private entity that has adopted a written policy prohibiting firearms, loaded firearms, or firearm ammunition not required for employment within the motor vehicle or boat; and

(ii) Provided by such entity to an employee for use during the course of employment.

(f)

(1) A person commits an offense who possesses a firearm, as defined in § 39-11-106(a), and:

(A) Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921, and is still subject to the disabilities of such a conviction;

(B) Is, at the time of the possession, subject to an order of protection that fully complies with 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(8); or

(C) Is prohibited from possessing a firearm under any other state or federal law.

(2) If the person is licensed as a federal firearms dealer or a responsible party under a federal firearms license, the determination of whether such an individual possesses firearms that constitute the business inventory under the federal license shall be determined based upon the applicable federal statutes or the rules, regulations and official letters, rulings and publications of the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives.

(3) For purposes of this section, a person does not possess a firearm, including, but not limited to, firearms registered under the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. § 5801 et seq.), if the firearm is in a safe or similar container that is securely locked and to which the respondent does not have the combination, keys or other means of normal access.

(4) A violation of subdivision (f)(1) is a Class A misdemeanor and each violation constitutes a separate offense.

(5) If a violation of subdivision (f)(1) also constitutes a violation of § 36-3-625(h) or § 39-13-113(h), the respondent may be charged and convicted under any or all such sections.

 

...........................................................

39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon.

(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:

(1) Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;

(2) By a person authorized to possess or carry a firearm pursuant to § 39-17-1315, § 39-17-1351, or § 39-17-1366;

(3) At the person's:

(A) Place of residence;

(B) Place of business; or

(C) Premises;

(4) Incident to lawful hunting, trapping, fishing, camping, sport shooting or other lawful activity;

(5) By a person possessing a rifle or shotgun while engaged in the lawful protection of livestock from predatory animals;

(6) By a Tennessee valley authority officer who holds a valid commission from the commissioner of safety pursuant to this part while the officer is in the performance of the officer's official duties;

(7) By a state, county or municipal judge or any federal judge or any federal or county magistrate;

(8) By a person possessing a club or baton who holds a valid state security guard/officer registration card as a private security guard/officer, issued by the commissioner, and who also has certification that the officer has had training in the use of club or baton that is valid and issued by a person certified to give training in the use of clubs or batons;

(9) By any person possessing a club or baton who holds a certificate that the person has had training in the use of a club or baton for self-defense that is valid and issued by a certified person authorized to give training in the use of clubs or batons, and is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm under any local, state or federal laws;

(10) By any out-of-state, full-time, commissioned law enforcement officer who holds a valid commission card from the appropriate out-of-state law enforcement agency and a photo identification; provided, that if no valid commission card and photo identification are retained, then it shall be unlawful for that officer to carry firearms in this state and this section shall not apply. The defense provided by this subdivision (a)(10) shall only be applicable if the state where the out-of-state officer is employed has entered into a reciprocity agreement with this state that allows a full-time, commissioned law enforcement officer in Tennessee to lawfully carry or possess a weapon in the other state; or

(11) By a person authorized to carry a handgun pursuant to § 36-3-626 or § 39-17-1365.

(b) The defenses described in this section are not available to persons described in § 39-17-1307(b)(1).

 

[hipower]

So the short of it is that as a private citizen...a baton is a no-no. I thought this was still the case. Years ago, my late brother-in-law worked with a group training in the use of a baton for MPs.

I thought it a viable backup, but with the caveat of needing to be in very good physical condition and knowledgeable in several forms of self-defense with non-lethal force.

I guess the selling of batons by online organizations is comparable to the situation with switchblade knives years back...it's ok to sell them or to own one. just not to carry openly.

So, as a decrepit old man, I'll stay with my carry pistol and the aluminum bat behind the door at home...and my cane when out walking. lol

Thanks for the information on it.

 

[Grayfox54]

Yep, guess I'll forget the baton thing too. 

I still might pick up a small can of pepper spray next chance I get. I like the idea of having a less lethal option available. But am well aware that its use can backfire on you. Especially in a confined space. 

[AuEagle]

I've been considering a change from single stack Shield or Ultra Carry to a higher cap XD9 Compact. CZ75D PCR or something similar.

A Maglite could solve the baton issue & too bad brass knuckles are restricted.

[Alleycat72]

1 minute ago, AuEagle said:

I've been considering a change from single stack Shield or Ultra Carry to a higher cap XD9 Compact. CZ75D PCR or something similar.

A Maglite could solve the baton issue & too bad brass knuckles are restricted.

I have a set of aluminum ones my father gave me and a brass set a police officer gave me. My Daughter keeps taking them for room decorations  

[TGO David]

8 minutes ago, AuEagle said:

A Maglite could solve the baton issue & too bad brass knuckles are restricted.

I usually carry a Streamlight ProTac 2-LX light.  The crenulated bezel wouldn't feel good if you got poked with it, really hard, in the face.

 

[AuEagle]

5 minutes ago, TGO David said:

I usually carry a Streamlight ProTac 2-LX light.  The crenulated bezel wouldn't feel good if you got poked with it, really hard, in the face.

 

I like it.

Use that like the old roll of quarters...

Edited September 12, 2020 by AuEagle