Ted Cruz and Oprah Winfrey !!!

[bersaguy]

Who else has seen the debate/discussion between Oprah Winfrey and Ted Cruz?? If so what is your opinion about it?  It raises a question that I have never thought about till I read the article.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ted-cruz-oprah-white-privilege-comments

Edited August 5, 2020 by bersaguy

[Defender]

I call BS.  I dont believe white privilege exists here anymore.  Money privilege maybe...

[Whisper]

I do believe it's an advantage to be white in this country.  It probably isn't in Namibia or Thailand, but it is here.  In any country where there's a dominant majority of any sort (ethnic, religious, political, whatever) there is discrimination against minorities.  Being a member of the majority group helps avoid that discrimination and is thus advantageous.

[Capbyrd]

16 hours ago, bersaguy said:

Who else has seen the debate/discussion between Oprah Winfrey and Ted Cruz?? If so what is your opinion about it?  It raises a question that I have never thought about till I read the article.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ted-cruz-oprah-white-privilege-comments

 

What question is that? 

 

 

[bersaguy]

22 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

 

What question is that? 

 

 

My question is how many people actually feel that there is such a thing as white privilege just because a person is born white? I have never given thought to my being privileged because I was white! I was not born with a gold spoon in my mouth and my father and mother both had to work to provide for me and my 3 brothers. We lived in a suburb of extreme west Cook County and when I got old enough old work bagging groceries and toting them to the vehicles I went to work. My older brothers also worked odd jobs to help our parents out. I have worked hard all my life and when my sons were born they had the necessities and once a little something for a surprise and my wife worked once the boys went to school. We never got any public assistance and worked for everything we got all our lives so where does the White Privilege fit into my life at. When I was working there was also another bag boy and he was black and we became good friends and worked well together and attended school together.

[Capbyrd]

1 hour ago, bersaguy said:

My question is how many people actually feel that there is such a thing as white privilege just because a person is born white? I have never given thought to my being privileged because I was white! I was not born with a gold spoon in my mouth and my father and mother both had to work to provide for me and my 3 brothers. We lived in a suburb of extreme west Cook County and when I got old enough old work bagging groceries and toting them to the vehicles I went to work. My older brothers also worked odd jobs to help our parents out. I have worked hard all my life and when my sons were born they had the necessities and once a little something for a surprise and my wife worked once the boys went to school. We never got any public assistance and worked for everything we got all our lives so where does the White Privilege fit into my life at. When I was working there was also another bag boy and he was black and we became good friends and worked well together and attended school together.

Did anyone ever call the cops on you for simply existing?  Did anyone ever pass laws that targeted your subculture with harsher penalties than another?   White privilege exists but privilege might be a misnomer.  I'd hesitate to call it systemic racism but our country definitely still suffers from systemic bias.  And that bias makes it sometimes harder for certain groups of people to rise to the same levels as other groups of people.  

[Steelharp]

Sorry,  Cap.

[Capbyrd]

1 minute ago, Steelharp said:

Sorry,  Cap.

What are you sorry for?   NOW we are supposed to listen and care about the opinions of celebrities because it aligns with your point of view?  Come on now.  Either we listen to celebrities all the time, or none of the time.  You can't have both. 

 

[bersaguy]

17 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

Did anyone ever call the cops on you for simply existing?  Did anyone ever pass laws that targeted your subculture with harsher penalties than another?   White privilege exists but privilege might be a misnomer.  I'd hesitate to call it systemic racism but our country definitely still suffers from systemic bias.  And that bias makes it sometimes harder for certain groups of people to rise to the same levels as other groups of people.  

 To try and answer your questions simply existing is not against the law so no I have not. 

[Capbyrd]

Just now, bersaguy said:

 To try and answer your questions simply existing is not against the law so no I have not. 

Well it does happen to black people.  It happened recently and a kid ended up dead because of it.  He was black and walking down the street.   His blackness was so terrifying that a woman called the cops on him.   Look up Elijah McClain.  That's not an isolated incident.  

Laws and policies have been put into place in this country that target certain groups of people.  If you want to draw a line and say that they target those below the poverty line, fine.  But look at the demographics of who is below the poverty line.  Black people may be 13 percent of the overall population but they make up 21% (the greatest percentage) of Americans living below the poverty line.  Mandatory sentencing laws and plea bargains are examples of these.  

[DaveTN]

4 hours ago, Defender said:

I call BS.  I dont believe white privilege exists here anymore.  Money privilege maybe...

I agree; “white privilege” is preposterous in 2020. But of course it’s something that can’t be proven; so it will be argued from now to eternity. People are going to believe what they want.

Money privilege absolutely exists. Money not only gives you power, but it allows you to hire the best when you need them. Poor people, regardless of race don’t have that power.

[Steelharp]

33 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

What are you sorry for?   NOW we are supposed to listen and care about the opinions of celebrities because it aligns with your point of view?  Come on now.  Either we listen to celebrities all the time, or none of the time.  You can't have both. 

 

It has nothing to do with them being "celebrities." Don't be obtuse. They get camera time that we don't. 

[Trekbike]

14 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

Laws and policies have been put into place in this country that target certain groups of people.  If you want to draw a line and say that they target those below the poverty line, fine.  But look at the demographics of who is below the poverty line.  Black people may be 13 percent of the overall population but they make up 21% (the greatest percentage) of Americans living below the poverty line.  Mandatory sentencing laws and plea bargains are examples of these.  

There are targeting laws and policies that cut both ways.    Two examples are affirmative action laws, and contracts for minority owned businesses only.    While these are designed to give a helping hand and "level the playing field" to a certain group of people, they are still discriminatory to other groups of people.     

[bersaguy]

I guess maybe it is because I have never actually sat down and thought about this problem until recently but I must agree we do have a serious problem that needs to be addressed. I don't feel that all the protests and rioting and looting is not going to solve what is going on! If anything it is going to make everything worse.(opinion)

  Marin Luther King said it best when he said if we are to be accepted as equals, Violence is not the answer. I know I am not a smart man but not a dumb one either. I guess I have not paid enough attention to this problem because I never considered being white as a privilege and was just part of life. I am beginning to learn more as people explain things in ways I can understand better. I will pay much more attention in what little future I have left. 

[Defender]

I'll probably be castigated for saying this, but I honestly feel like we had just about eliminated this problem until Obama became president.  ANd I'm not talking about because he was black.  I could name half a dozen other black people I would have liked to see become President instead.

[Links2k]

3 hours ago, Whisper said:

I do believe it's an advantage to be white in this country.  It probably isn't in Namibia or Thailand, but it is here.  In any country where there's a dominant majority of any sort (ethnic, religious, political, whatever) there is discrimination against minorities.  Being a member of the majority group helps avoid that discrimination and is thus advantageous.

This was very well stated. I don’t feel like arguing today, so I’ll just add one thing and leave this alone. So many people equate privilege with wealth and prosperity,  therefore if one is not financially well off they do not feel privileged.  
 

Unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, most people regardless of color who have achieved a certain level of comfort in this world did so because they worked their butts off. That does away with the argument that because you’re poor and hard working you’re not privileged. I like how @Capbyrd described what we are experiencing as systemic bias, systemic racism puts too many people on the defensive. 
 

[Links2k]

56 minutes ago, Trekbike said:

 While these are designed to give a helping hand and "level the playing field" to a certain group of people, they are still discriminatory to other groups of people.     

How is this discriminatory when small and minority businesses were being left out of working on large projects because the same large companies were repeatedly getting the contracts?
 

My cousin was a small business owner prior to the Memphis Pyramid project, and because the city was forced to allow small companies to bid and work on the project, they now have a nice sized business that routinely gets larger contracts and affords them a very good lifestyle.  It’s repeatedly shown that many in this country will only do the right thing only if they are forced to do so.  

 

[Links2k]

34 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

I guess maybe it is because I have never actually sat down and thought about this problem until recently but I must agree we do have a serious problem that needs to be addressed. I don't feel that all the protests and rioting and looting is not going to solve what is going on! If anything it is going to make everything worse.(opinion)

  Marin Luther King said it best when he said if we are to be accepted as equals, Violence is not the answer. I know I am not a smart man but not a dumb one either. I guess I have not paid enough attention to this problem because I never considered being white as a privilege and was just part of life. I am beginning to learn more as people explain things in ways I can understand better. I will pay much more attention in what little future I have left. 

I hate MLK quotes, because few people ever quote his more radical quotes. Everyone quotes the be nice and turn the other cheek quotes. All turning the other cheek does is get you slapped on the other side of the face.

[Defender]

2 minutes ago, Links2k said:

How is this discriminatory when small and minority businesses were being left out of working on large projects because the same large companies were repeatedly getting the contracts?
 

My cousin was a small business owner prior to the Memphis Pyramid project, and because the city was forced to allow small companies to bid and work on the project, they now have a nice sized business that routinely gets larger contracts and affords them a very good lifestyle.  It’s repeatedly shown that many in this country will only do the right thing only if they are forced to do so.  

 

I'd bet they weren't left out because of racial discrimination, they were left out because their bids were not adequately low.  Possibly because that sort of system is kinda geared for the big boys who can afford to bid lower or have a smaller profit margin.  Fair?  Maybe, maybe not, but not racist at all.

[Links2k]

1 hour ago, Defender said:

I'll probably be castigated for saying this, but I honestly feel like we had just about eliminated this problem until Obama became president.  ANd I'm not talking about because he was black.  I could name half a dozen other black people I would have liked to see become President instead.

The problem was not nearly eliminated. Prior to Obama most of society had decided that regardless of your feelings towards other ethnicities, it was in poor taste to be openly racist. Again, I say most. There were several times when taking my kid back to school in Tuscaloosa where I blew my horn and waved at the KKK standing on the corner in the middle of the day.  
 

Then you can add the birth certificate conspiracy from a man who won’t release his taxes and the only leadership skills he has is hatred, throwing people under the bus and lying. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Links2k

[Defender]

10 minutes ago, Links2k said:

The problem was not nearly eliminated. Prior to Obama most of society had decided that regardless of your feelings towards other ethnicities, it was in poor taste to be openly racist. Again, I say most. There were several times when taking my kid back to school in Tuscaloosa where I blew my horn and waved at the KKK standing on the corner in the middle of the day.  
 

Then you can add the birth certificate conspiracy from a man who won’t release his taxes and the only leadership skills he has is hated, throwing people under the bus and lying. 

Ok, I see where this is going.  I'm out.

[Links2k]

13 minutes ago, Defender said:

I'd bet they weren't left out because of racial discrimination, they were left out because their bids were not adequately low.  Possibly because that sort of system is kinda geared for the big boys who can afford to bid lower or have a smaller profit margin.  Fair?  Maybe, maybe not, but not racist at all.

I didn’t say it was racist.  I said it was discriminatory.  Prior to the pyramid they couldn’t get a foot in the door.  I know for a fact at one point they were willing to work at cost just to get in on the big contracts.  Now, because the city was forced to give them an opportunity, they are killing it.  They recently took down some buildings downtown at UT Medical and the Loves in West Memphis. 
 

So no one is being asked for anyone to be excluded. It’s the opposite, small and minority businesses are just asking for the same opportunities to work and build wealth. Contrary to what some my think, everyone is not satisfied with eight hundred dollars in welfare per month just to exist. That’s not living.

[gregintenn]

35 minutes ago, Links2k said:

How is this discriminatory when small and minority businesses were being left out of working on large projects because the same large companies were repeatedly getting the contracts?
 

My cousin was a small business owner prior to the Memphis Pyramid project, and because the city was forced to allow small companies to bid and work on the project, they now have a nice sized business that routinely gets larger contracts and affords them a very good lifestyle.  It’s repeatedly shown that many in this country will only do the right thing only if they are forced to do so.  

 

This is an example of the worst, most insulting, most blatant form of racism I can imagine; the soft bigotry of low expectations. 

Let’s pretend your kid and my kid apply for the same college. They are equal in every way. Same clubs in high school, same ACT scores, everything. There is only one spot available. Guess who’s going to that school. Why? Affirmative action. To me this implies that the government thinks your kid is somehow inferior to mine, so he needs a helping hand. I do not agree with that assessment. I don’t expect you do either.

Edited August 6, 2020 by gregintenn

[Links2k]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

This is an example of the worst, most insulting, most blatant form of racism I can imagine; the soft bigotry of low expectations. 

Let’s pretend your kid and my kid apply for the same college. They are equal in every way. Same clubs in high school, same ACT scores, everything. There is only one spot available. Guess who’s going to that school. Why? Affirmative action. To me this implies that the government thinks your kid is somehow inferior to mine, so he needs a helping hand. I do not agree with that assessment. I don’t expect you do either.

You may imply that, but even with diversity mandates many schools and companies still don’t except well qualified minorities. I think people like to talk about affirmative action like it’s a big deal. It’s not. At the end of the day that student or employee will have to produce. Sometimes at a higher level.

You want to know who really hates affirmative action/diversity hires...black people.  Because no matter what you bring to the table, someone is always going to think something was given to you.  

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’ll always put my family up against anyone if the stats are equal. I’ve said it before, take the names, addresses and ethnicities off of applications, and let the chips fall were they may. I’ll stand by that everyday. 

Regents Of University Of California v. Bakke 

The case established the court’s position on affirmative action for decades. A state university had to meet a standard of judicial review known as strict scrutiny: Race could be a narrowly tailored factor in admissions policies. Racial quotas, however, went too far.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Links2k

[The Big Guy]

15 minutes ago, Links2k said:

You may imply that, but even with diversity mandates many schools and companies still don’t except well qualified minorities. I think people like to talk about affirmative action like it’s a big deal. It’s not. At the end of the day that student or employee will have to produce. Sometimes at a higher level.

You want to know who really hates affirmative action/diversity hires...black people.  Because no matter what you bring to the table, someone is always going to think something was given to you.  

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’ll always put my family up against anyone if the stats are equal. I’ve said it before, take the names, addresses and ethnicities off of applications, and let the chips fall were they may. I’ll stand by that everyday. 

Which schools and companies are these? If you are a skilled programmer or engineer and also happen to be a minority Google, Facebook, Twitter and the rest will snatch you up in a heartbeat.

I've worked along side several "minorities" and guess what, they were scientists. I find it a little insulting when I see people talk like this. It's a cop-out in my eyes. If my previous coworkers were white would they get a Nobel Peace Prize for the same work, but they don't because they are a "minority"? Truth is, these guys got to where they were not because of the color of their skin but because of the content of their character.