Folding brace on a Shockwave?

[jeff43]

Anybody know the laws on putting a folding brace on a Mossberg Shockwave?  If you can or can't?

Thanks Jeff

[Chucktshoes]

It’s as fine as putting a brace on anything else is. Lots of companies make brace adapters for the Shockwave. 

[Guest OMCHamlin]

16 hours ago, jeff43 said:

Anybody know the laws on putting a folding brace on a Mossberg Shockwave?  If you can or can't?

Thanks Jeff

It's actually NOT fine, the ATF cleared that up when they said that a brace is NOT a stock, and the length of a "firearm" like the Shockwave is measured with the stock brace folded.  The problem with that is that the design of most folding mechanisms and shotgun pistol grips is that if you attach it to a Shockwave, it (with the brace folded) is now under that magic 26".  That said, I have an ACE Ltd Mossberg pistol grip and folding mechanism that I will part with, as I have no need for it.

[DaveTN]

You have to read the law and decide if you are violating it. If you think the law says using a brace as a stock is okay; you are okay.

If you think because manufacturers make them, or because the BATF has issued a letter, the courts aren’t bound by that. Here is what the ATF says about that…

Quote

 

ATF publishes rulings and procedures to promote uniform understanding and application of the laws and regulations it administers, and to provide uniform methods for performing operations in compliance with the requirements of the law and regulations.  

Rulings represent ATF’s guidance as to the application of the law and regulations to the entire state of facts involved, and apply retroactively unless otherwise indicated.  

Rulings do not have the force and effect of federal statutes or Department of Justice regulations, but may be cited and relied upon as precedents in the disposition of similar cases.  

In applying published rulings, the effect of subsequent legislation, regulations, court decisions, and other rulings must be considered.  
Concerned parties are cautioned against reaching the same conclusions in other cases unless the facts and circumstances are substantially the same

 

They have issued letters saying braces are okay, then said if you use them as a stock it’s a crime, then changed that and said its not a crime. These guys are clowns. Most of you would never rely on something the BATF said. That is, until they say something you want to hear. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by DaveTN

[Guest OMCHamlin]

DaveTN, I can't argue that they are arbitrary and generally full of crap, but somehow we let them have control and until that changes, we're sorta stuck with them and their willy-nilly interpretations. That said, my response wasn't arguing that you can't have a brace on a Shockwave, but in so doing, if the brace folded reduces the OAL to <26", it's no longer classified as that oddball "firearm". 

[DaveTN]

25 minutes ago, OMCHamlin said:

DaveTN, I can't argue that they are arbitrary and generally full of crap, but somehow we let them have control and until that changes, we're sorta stuck with them and their willy-nilly interpretations. That said, my response wasn't arguing that you can't have a brace on a Shockwave, but in so doing, if the brace folded reduces the OAL to <26", it's no longer classified as that oddball "firearm". 

I’m not arguing one way or the other. I’m just pointing out that the BATF does not have the final say, and they tell you that on their web site.

It’s kind of like an Attorney General Opinion. Will an AG opinion keep you from being charged by a DA? Probably. Is the DA or the Courts bound by it? No.

When people ask these questions, they need all the information; then they need to do their research. Court is a very expensive situation, even if you win.

[Guest OMCHamlin]

I see you, until it's decided you mean. And doubtful any of us want to be on the other side of that, cost wise.

[jeff43]

Sounds like it's a really gray area like some of the other laws they have.

[Magiccarpetrides]

In the meantime here’s my 10” AOW for inspiration...

 

[chances R]

JIMO FWIW........a shotgun is a fine defensive weapon, with a stock.  It is a handicap without one.  They still need to be aimed and can be very effective even with head shots.  But not having a stock certainly limits its usefulness.

 

[Johnny Rotten]

39 minutes ago, Magiccarpetrides said:

In the meantime here’s my 10” AOW for inspiration...

 

Folding brace  BTW: nice!

Here's my old school shotgun 

 

[Magiccarpetrides]

On 5/28/2020 at 7:47 PM, Johnny Rotten said:

Folding brace  BTW: nice!

Here's my old school shotgun 

 

Spas 12?!?!?  

[RED333]

On 5/28/2020 at 6:11 PM, chances R said:

JIMO FWIW........a shotgun is a fine defensive weapon, with a stock.  It is a handicap without one.  They still need to be aimed and can be very effective even with head shots.  But not having a stock certainly limits its usefulness.

Yes it does, that is why we have more than one firearm.

I have an old Winchester 1200 pump with a 20 inch barrel and a pistol grip, not to bad to shoot, hard to aim because of the pistol grip. I also have a Shockwave, whole other matter. The birds head grip and the strap make it very easy to hit out to "across the room" distances. With the correct load and wad you can get a spread of less than 8 to 10 inches at 25 yards, that is a bit far to shoot from the hip, the way the Shockwave is meant to be used.

The Shockwave is not meant to be used out to "across the yard" distances. I keep mine in the house or in the vehicle I am traveling in, and is much easier to move around inside a vehicle than a "stocked" firearm. With 6 rounds of buck shot you have 54 30 cal pieces of lead going out to keep the feral hogs at bay.

Just my $0.02

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by RED333
Because I can

[DaveTN]

On 5/28/2020 at 6:11 PM, chances R said:

JIMO FWIW........a shotgun is a fine defensive weapon, with a stock.  It is a handicap without one.  They still need to be aimed and can be very effective even with head shots.  But not having a stock certainly limits its usefulness.

I have tried an AR Pistol, twice. I found the same thing with them. For me, without a stock its pretty much useless as a rifle, and there are way better choices in handguns. It would probably be good for short range CQC, but that wasn’t my application.

[RED333]

A 13mm and 1/2inch wrench will fit a 1/2 headed bolt, but neither will not work on a 7/16 bolt head, the reason for different size wrenches.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by RED333
fixen mistakes

[joe4vol]

1 hour ago, RED333 said:

A 13mm wrench will fit a 1/2 bolt, but neither will not work on a 7/16 bolt, the reason for different size wrenches.

 

 

A 1/2 bolt actually takes a 3/4 wrench. 

[RED333]

2 minutes ago, joe4vol said:

A 1/2 bolt actually takes a 3/4 wrench. 

Ok you have that one

[VolunteerJeff106]

I wouldn't want to answer the legality based on I'm not nearly qualified to interpret that part of the law. However, I would like to know...How is shooting the Shockwave with a brace. When I was able to get my mitts on it, I had a blast with that Raptor grip without a brace. Mind you, I was just shooting mini-shells.

[Oh Shoot]

11 hours ago, VolunteerJeff106 said:

I wouldn't want to answer the legality based on I'm not nearly qualified to interpret that part of the law. However, I would like to know...How is shooting the Shockwave with a brace. ...

You can of course fire it from the shoulder for increased accuracy. Some of the braces are just squishy enough to really mitigate recoil, too. The one on my 7.62x39 pistol is softer shooting than a real stock with a nancy pad for example.

- OS

[VolunteerJeff106]

9 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

You can of course fire it from the shoulder for increased accuracy. Some of the braces are just squishy enough to really mitigate recoil, too. The one on my 7.62x39 pistol is softer shooting than a real stock with a nancy pad for example.

- OS

Hmm... Thanks for the insight. Been seriously thinking about picking up one of these little guys. If I do, I might just invest in a brace as well.

[Moped]

I can't believe how much these have gone up in price!  Last year, you could pick up a 12ga at Bud's for under $250.  Right now they are going for over $400!  

[Magiccarpetrides]

53 minutes ago, Moped said:

I can't believe how much these have gone up in price!  Last year, you could pick up a 12ga at Bud's for under $250.  Right now they are going for over $400!  

Only if ya just gotta have one...all these guns purchased now are just depreciating assets market will be flooded with low prices halfway thru next year no matter who’s in charge.

[Moped]

52 minutes ago, Magiccarpetrides said:

Only if ya just gotta have one...all these guns purchased now are just depreciating assets market will be flooded with low prices halfway thru next year no matter who’s in charge.

I watch Harvey's Pistol & Pawn auctions on FB and people are bidding ridiculous prices on there for firearms!  Used to be a good place to pick up a deal every once in a while, but not since March. Harvey will even advertise specials on Thursday and put the same gun up for auction that weekend and it the final auction price will be $200 or $300 higher than the special price he advertised in the store.  

Example.  I picked up a brand new Taurus Tracker 357 in Stainless steel for $437, new.  I bought that one outright.  Same gun on Auction went for over $600 the other day. 

I just shake my head.  People are going to be way upside down on a lot of newly purchased firearms in the coming months, depending on how the election goes.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Oh yeah its the same cycle that happens anytime theres a tragedy or "changing of the guard"....the newbies well i can just chalk their overexuberance up to not knowing better but any old school gun owner especially the ones that frequent boards like this one that are dumb enough to overpay thats just plain incompetence and bad money management.  

[RED333]

3 hours ago, Magiccarpetrides said:

Only if ya just gotta have one...all these guns purchased now are just depreciating assets market will be flooded with low prices halfway thru next year no matter who’s in charge.

As I wait with baited breath.