"Concealed means concealed"

[Guest c.a.s.]

If you look at the more recent court cases, there have been several rulings that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right. The biggest success being the federal court in Washington DC admitting that. A couple people sued, and now you can own a gun in DC. The Founding Fathers made it very cclear that the 2nd is an individual right, and the only thing keeping it from such is the government's fear of the people.

"Who are the Militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared then, that we shall turn our arms against his own bosom? Congress have no power to disarm the Militia. Their swords and every other terrible implement of a soldier are the birthright of an American. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of the Federal or State governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain. In the hands of The People." --[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxMWxgWDmUY[/ame] 4:22 (I can't spell his name anywhere near right...)

[Guest Hyaloid]

Who is looking down their nose at you? There are people on this forum that have actually been in shootings. Not in combat, but encountering a criminal face to face on the street in exactly the type of scenario that you may find yourself in some day. If those people try to share their experiences of what you need to know to stay alive or to even avoid a shooting in the first place; that is not looking down their nose at you.

I think there are some posts that seem to drip with a condescending tone. I come here precisely to read what people who may be more knowledgeable and have more experience than I have, have to say about any number of things. Sharing experience and offering sound advice is much different than implying that one opinion is the only one, and that anyone who differs in thought or level of experience is somehow unqualified to make conclusions.

If you are saying that now that you have been through your 8 hours of smoking and joking at the range and paid your money to the state; that makes you Jack Bauer... most folks are looking down their nose at you.

Wow... talk about a stretch. Never even implied that. I'd be interested where you find that inference in my postings.

You listen to everyone, you take any advice at the range that is offered, you look at who is offering the info, why, and if they have a clue. You keep the good and throw out the bad.

Agreed... see we can find common ground.

There are bad guys out there that are experts and have as much experience as probably anyone of this forum. Do not think that because they are criminals they won’t shoot you dead in a confrontation?

Huh? If I didn't believe that there were bad guys who would shoot me, what in the blazes do I need a CHP for?

Look at both sides of things. You don’t like me telling you that you don’t have right to own a firearm in Tennessee. Your reaction to that is emotional; not logical.

I asked some questions so I can better understand your position, never said I agreed or disagreed with your premise. Do you have an example of an emotional argument that I used? I sure cannot find one. I don't really see where I argued any point for or against your statement.

Sure we could all run around yelling that the 2nd amendment gives us the right to bear arms. I mean after all we all are patriots and that’s what patriots do right? Wrong, patriots don’t pick and choose what parts of the Constitution they agree with, they don’t pick and choose what laws they want to abide by. Our Federal Courts have established that the 2nd amendment is protection for the state; not an individual right. You and I may not agree that is what our founding fathers intended; but that is the law. There is nothing right about violating parts of the carry laws in Tennessee that you don’t agree with.

Do you have links to cases or decisions from the Federal Courts upholding your argument?

IRT your last sentence, I never advocated violating parts of the carry laws. Again, can you show me where I did? Maybe you have me confused with another poster?

I may be a little passionate about this, but I have lived in states that allow no one to carry firearms except the Police.

Glad you made it out of those places.

As far as your driving abilities…. I submit that Danica Patrick would embarrass you and she’s a girl.

Wholeheartedly agree. Never said I was on par with an Indy driver, much as I am not on par with many of the shooters on this forum... that was the metaphor.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Have you done it? Have you stood face to face with and armed assailant and taken his life? Do you know what goes through your mind? Do you know how your mind and body reacts?

Any Police Officer? Broad Brush?

Have I stood face to face with an assailant? Absolutely . More than once. But they were wise enough to figure out THEY were about to die. It is generally pretty obvious when someone is about to kill you.They realized they were on the fast track to the afterlife and adjusted their actions accordingly. I guess I was just lucky to not have to press the trigger.Shootings are expensive.

If a BODY COUNT is how you judge whether someone has their crap together or not, that speaks to some internal issues you should see some professional counselor about.

If you can find me ANY police officer who has put in over 200 hours of firearms and defensive tactics training in a SINGLE YEAR that paid for it out of their own pocket you get a gold freakin' star and so do they. While you are at it why don't you see if you can find us a unicorn too.

I'm curious since you seem to know so much what is your level of experience, level of training and level of skill? That MIGHT give us some insight into where you are coming from. References? I know A LOT of folks in the training community. It would be easy to verify if you are as tuned in as you seem to imply that you are......

[DaveTN]

If you look at the more recent court cases, there have been several rulings that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right.

There have only been two that matter.

The biggest success being the federal court in Washington DC admitting that. A couple people sued, and now you can own a gun in DC. The Founding Fathers made it very cclear that the 2nd is an individual right, and the only thing keeping it from such is the government's fear of the people.

Has DC changed their gun laws?

This is only the second time a federal appellate court has decided that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess firearms. The Fifth Circuit also has reached this result. In contrast, the First, Third, Fourth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth, Tenth, and Eleventh Circuits all have concluded that the Second Amendment only protects a collective right. (See Decision at 16.) The Second Circuit (which covers New York, Connecticut, and Vermont) still has not addressed the issue. As a resident of New York City, I would love to see the Second Circuit follow the D.C Circuit's lead and declare the NYC gun laws unconstitutional. Unfortunately, the Second Circuit is very liberal, so this is extremely unlikely to happen.

Undoubtedly, the D.C. Government will seek reconsideration of this decision by the full D.C. Circuit ("en banc") and/or will appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. Unless the D.C. Circuit en banc reverses this decision, I think it is very likely that the case eventually will be heard by the Supreme Court. Although the Supreme Court has discretion over which cases it agrees to hear, the existence of a disagreement among the various federal appellate courts on a major issue of constitutional law (known as a "circuit split") makes it more likely that the Supreme Court will take action to resolve the disagreement. Although the D.C. Circuit has the smallest geographical jurisdiction of the federal courts of appeal (it covers only the District of Columbia), it generally is considered the most important of the circuit courts (for several reasons). Consequently, its decision in this case will be accorded considerable weight when the Supreme Court decides whether or not to hear the case on appeal.

I don’t think any of us are going to like the way the SCOTUS rules on this if they choose to hear it.

[towerclimber37]

Oh, I don't know....I'd be willing to bet on the SCOTUS ruling...

One of the reasons NRA doesn't want a ruling, in my opinion, is that they would lose alot of membership dues...we wouldn't be frightened into being told they're going to take our rights away.

the reason that DC still has anti gun laws on the books is that the mayor is pro gun control and vowed to fight the ruling...though he hasn't tried very hard.

I'm pretty sure that the next time something comes up in DC that requires a ruling, he'll go down in flames.

Just my opinion, don't bite MY head off...

[Guest Len]

Tower, I know this sounds pretty crazy (), but I've got to agree with you on this one, especially concerning SCOTUS and NRA.

Oh, I don't know....I'd be willing to bet on the SCOTUS ruling...

One of the reasons NRA doesn't want a ruling, in my opinion, is that they would lose alot of membership dues...we wouldn't be frightened into being told they're going to take our rights away.

the reason that DC still has anti gun laws on the books is that the mayor is pro gun control and vowed to fight the ruling...though he hasn't tried very hard.

I'm pretty sure that the next time something comes up in DC that requires a ruling, he'll go down in flames.

Just my opinion, don't bite MY head off...

[Guest Hyaloid]

....Just my opinion, don't bite MY head off...

No way I would...

The tin foil hats cause indigestion!

(j/k)

[towerclimber37]

Hy, you wound me

Len, score one for the tinfoil hat brigade.

As for the rest of the idea, I'm a fella that supports the law, but when it comes to personal safety, if civil disobedience is required, then I will be the LAST one to stand up and naysay. Our country was founded on personal initiative, social justice and freedom. Thats how I feel anyhow.

[Marswolf]

Hyaloid, I'll have to remember that tinfoil hat comment in regard to the NRA. Everyone gives them hell for not "standing firm" against the anti-gunners, but never are able to give them credit when they do things like help save the Tiahrt Amendment protecting our privacy from people like Bloomberg.

Here are a couple of links that masquerade as pro-LE pages against the amendment, including one TV ad. Google "tiahrt ad" for more nonsense. NRA helped get the "public service ad" pulled from a number of stations. Be sure to note who placed the ad at the end.

Ad

Gun Guys

The NRA doesn't joust at windmills as some people want them to do but instead picks fights they can win. I think that's pretty smart.

Tower, I agree with you on the civil disobedience angle, but less on the basis of principle in this case than practicality. I just can't protect myself if my gun is in the car rather than at the dinner table with me.