"Concealed means concealed"

[Guest Kingfish]

"Concealed means concealed"

I read this all the time on this forum and others when talking about carrying in places that are off limits.

Will someone please explain this to me. I thought we were all supposed to be law abiding citizens, not just when it suits us or when we won't get caught.

[Guest macho999]

It's called civil disobedience. Some hypocrite popularity whore in a big building somewhere may define your morals. They do not mine.

Was Thomas Jefferson, or any of the patriots law abiding citizens? If we forget how our freedoms came about, those in charge may forget to acknowledge them.

[TGO David]

I'm going to be the Devil's Advocate here and just say what I think most people mean when they say "Concealed means concealed" since you're not likely to get many replies from folks admitting to do something wrong.

People who I've spoken with and who have that mentality tend to figure that the law of Self Preservation (aka the God-given right to life) outranks the laws of the land. These are sometimes the same people who have carried a concealed weapon for years before any sort of legal provision to do so was granted. These are the folks who figure that the real bad guys don't observe the law and therefore don't play by the rules, so the only way to keep from becoming prey is to similarly skirt the law but do so in as benign of a fashion as possible.

Honestly, this sort of survival mindset (if you'll forgive me from using a word that I think has become ridiculously trivialized by advertising propaganda) has existed from the earliest days of good vs. evil. History tells us that the British were befuddled when Colonial American soldiers began adopting "guerilla warfare" tactics rather than observe the formal rules of combat that the British expected honorable men to follow.

There's nothing honorable about ending up dead, the Colonials started realizing that, so they took the kid gloves off and did what the "law" thought unthinkable.

[Guest GT_Rat]

If the people have to overthrow the government for failing to represent us I guarantee you we will be breaking "the law."

[fury2neon]

Civil Disobedenance requires that when caught you take the punishment perscribed without complaint or apology.

If the "cost" is to high then obey the law.

I prefer to keep my permit and not pay a fine so I will lock my carry piece in the car or leave it at home when nessesary.

There are cases where you could be carring concealed and not have the chance to store safely. But then again if caught even when not intending to break the law the punishment still must be taken "as a man".

[ZZRguy]

Like the old saying goes " Do you want to be judged by 12 or carried by 6".

[towerclimber37]

It's called civil disobedience. Some hypocrite popularity whore in a big building somewhere may define your morals. They do not mine.

Was Thomas Jefferson, or any of the patriots law abiding citizens? If we forget how our freedoms came about, those in charge may forget to acknowledge them.

I don't think anyone could have said it better, Macho.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

I've done some research.

The statute defining homicide is reciprocal between places guns are allowed and where they are not allowed.

If you are killed somewhere that does NOT allow you to carry a gun you will still be dead in places that do allow you to carry a gun.

[Marswolf]

Civil Disobedenance requires that when caught you take the punishment perscribed without complaint or apology.

Very true. Thoreau's actions are a clear example. On Civil Disobedience is one of my favorite reads.

I prefer to keep my permit and not pay a fine so I will lock my carry piece in the car or leave it at home when nessesary.

Certainly your privilege. But others see preservation of self and family as a higher value than obeying the law.

[Guest Kingfish]

It's called civil disobedience.

So, you Open Carry your firearm everywhere huh? Laws and personal property rights be damned. That is impressive.

Unless you keep it concealed. In that case you really need to look up the definition of Civil Disobedience. Wiki Websters Dictionary.com

In the word of the great Inigo Montoya... "I do not think that word(s) mean what you think it means."

[Guest Kingfish]

Some hypocrite popularity whore in a big building somewhere may define your morals. They do not mine.

If your morals are based on religion and your religion happens to be Christian you might want to read this passage. Romans 13

[molonlabetn]

If your morals are based on religion and your religion happens to be Christian you might want to read this passage. Romans 13

While that is certainly true, even Christ himself would not stop doing what he was sent for... the truth that was within himself. He did indeed stand up to the authorities' will.

He only submitted in the form of accepting his punishment. And he did that for all of our eternity, not for respect of the law. The law was merely the mechanism which he used to bridge the rift between God and man through sacrifice.

[Guest Kingfish]

While that is certainly true, even Christ himself would not stop doing what he was sent for... the truth that was within himself. He did indeed stand up to the authorities' will.

He only submitted in the form of accepting his punishment.

So you are comparing the actions of God himself to carrying a gun into Applebee's? Or how are laws that restrict carry in restaurants against God's law.

There is nothing immoral about restricting where we carry our weapons...Unacceptable, inappropriate, inconceivable, unconstitutional, repugnant, repulsive, and down right wrong....But not immoral.

[molonlabetn]

So you are comparing the actions of God himself to carrying a gun into Applebee's? Or how are laws that restrict carry in restaurants against God's law.

There is nothing immoral about restricting where we carry our weapons...Unacceptable, inappropriate, inconceivable, unconstitutional, repugnant, repulsive, and down right wrong....But not immoral.

It is immoral to allow a scumbag to rape and murder my family just because of a wrong law.

[Guest Kingfish]

It is immoral to allow a scumbag to rape and murder my family just because of a wrong law.

Then don't. So you don't go where you are not allowed. Do you try to carry your gun onto an airplane? *Although I think we should be allowed to carry and the Airline should issue frangible ammo for the trip.

[Marswolf]

Could we move this out of the realm of religion and the absurd and back to practical considerations?

[TGO David]

So, you Open Carry your firearm everywhere huh? Laws and personal property rights be damned. That is impressive.

This part gets me every time. Sure, you have the right to insist that no one bring a gun onto your property. However, who exactly are you going to be pissed off at?

a.) The criminal who conceals a gun, comes onto your property and harms you

b.) The good guy who conceals a gun, comes onto your property, leaves and you were never the wiser

c.) The good guy who conceals a gun, comes onto your property and saves your ass when the criminal from a.) tries to harm you

Just wondering. Because most people who claim the thing about personal property rights tend to view it a little differently when item C becomes the case.

[molonlabetn]

Then don't. So you don't go where you are not allowed. Do you try to carry your gun onto an airplane? *Although I think we should be allowed to carry and the Airline should issue frangible ammo for the trip.

What if there was a law against free speech in restaurants or commercial aircraft? Should the majority of consumers be allowed to dictate how and where I exercise my rights?

Collective rights are what the left would have us believe are all we have. Not so. The Bill of Rights applies to individuals.

[TGO David]

*Although I think we should be allowed to carry and the Airline should issue frangible ammo for the trip.

This is going off topic quite a bit, but I'll say that I do not agree with the sentiment that we should be allowed to carry handguns onto airplanes. I do believe that the cabin crew should be armed and I do believe that there should be trained Air Marshals on each and every flight.

You also have the right to own an overly aggressive pitbull or doberman, but you shouldn't have the right to take that dog onto a playground and turn it loose among a group of children. There comes a point where your rights end and mine begin, and I don't want you popping off rounds inside an airplane at 30,000 feet.

[Guest Kingfish]

Collective rights are what the left would have us believe are all we have. Not so. The Bill of Rights applies to individuals.

I am in TOTAL agreement. We either need to change the stupid state/county/local laws, or utilize our other constitutional rights and overthrow if the government is indeed tiranical.

[molonlabetn]

I think it goes back to the question of whether a Business or Government actually has rights... or whether just the individual people who coexist within them do.

I don't think that a 'business' has any authority to infringe mine, any more than a government does. But I do think that the owner/employees/customers within the business have the right to their (false) security. There is a difference.

It is not acceptable to implement broad restrictions which discriminate based on individual choices of people to exercise certain rights. Allow each airline to decide... hell, allow each pilot/crew to decide.

What if Applebees decided to only allow (or specifically dis-allow) Honda owners in their parking-lot and restaurant?

Somebody would sue them, and win.

Some say "just go to another restaurant"... well, I can't do that if they are all off-limits!

Perhaps alcohol should be banned, so that no resturaunt could serve it and thus prohibit me? Of course not! That would be 'unfair' to people who wanted a drink... Well the same logic applies to my access to self-protection.

[Guest Kingfish]

This is going off topic quite a bit, but I'll say that I do not agree with the sentiment that we should be allowed to carry handguns onto airplanes. I do believe that the cabin crew should be armed and I do believe that there should be trained Air Marshals on each and every flight.

You also have the right to own an overly aggressive pitbull or doberman, but you shouldn't have the right to take that dog onto a playground and turn it loose among a group of children. There comes a point where your rights end and mine begin, and I don't want you popping off rounds inside an airplane at 30,000 feet.

Was a joke dude.

[TGO David]

What if Applebees decided to only allow (or specifically dis-allow) Honda owners in their parking-lot and restaurant?

As a Mustang owner, that would be A-OK with me.

Wait, my wife's daily driver is a Honda...

Was a joke dude.

I know, I was just using it to illustrate the point.

[Marswolf]

We have a right to eat at restaurants?

[molonlabetn]

We have a right to eat at restaurants?

No. Of course not.

But, doing so should not require other rights to be stripped from us, or those who choose not to, to be effectively discriminated against.

Resturaunts invite the general public to come to them. If they want patronage to be exclusive, then, make everyone they serve fill out an application for membership... otherwise, mind their own business.