TICS/TBI Denied

[WhereIsWaldo]

So long story short went into a gun store to buy a handgun about a month ago to my surprise was denied as held guns in many other states, just not in TN and all were instant approvals.  The FFL put in an appeals form right away to start the process.  Anyways here we are about 30 days later and whenever I can TBI/TICS they say they are still working on it and it hasn't been declined, but waiting on some information from a state I once lived in.  A bit of history about me.  No felonies, no mental health issues, etc..  Illegal u-hand turn at one point about 10-12 years ago in Vegas that i let lapse and had a bench warrant and paid it off and one other scenario about 20 years ago in AZ which was a DUI, also this was taken care of and a not a felony and took care of it, so certainly nothing that should stop me from owning a gun..  I guess the part that bugs me is we are on business day 25 and have called them a few times and they say things are taking longer and it isnt declined, etc and so and so that who is working on it will be back whatever day it might be.  Anyways, my understand of the law an appeal they have 15 business days to deny or approve or they must issue "Conditional Proceed".  See below statement

 

"TICS has 15 calendar days after receipt of the appeal form to research the denial and seek missing information or clarification from the arresting agency, clerks of court, judges and prosecuting attorneys. If the information being sought by TICS is not forthcoming or obtainable at the end of the 15 days, the transaction must be placed into “CONDITIONAL PROCEED” status"

 

Source: https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tbi/documents/FFL_TN_Guide_2016.pdf

 

My question is how do I stop them from dragging their feet as they appear to have violated the law, please correct me if I am wrong?  Is this common or any suggestions how to either have them just deny it (which they have no real right to do as I have a clean record) or force them to issue a conditional proceed without the excuse of we are very backed up due to what is going on and appeals / bg checks are way up excuse that still doesn't excuse them in my opinion from the law.  Just very frustrated and looking for suggestions.  I suppose I could hire an attorney, but really dont feel like spending money on that.

 

Thanks all

[TomInMN]

I can't help on the TN-specific aspects of this, but on the Federal side your background check expires after (I think) 30 days.

So, even if you can jar something loose at the State, it might not be worth much at this point (or soon, at least).

Edited April 20, 2020 by TomInMN
Clarity

[Handsome Rob]

From my experience (non immigrant alien) If there's any slight complication, TICS tends to deny/delay an application. Generally, if you reapply 30 days later (& there are no prohibitive circumstances) your application will go through. It's happened to me twice now. No flat out denial, just a delay. I've never had to file an appeal, but if you've been actually denied, there's an appeal process you'll have to go through to clear up any issues.

Occasionally, you be assigned a delayed status but the dealer will tell you it's a denial.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Handsome Rob

[WhereIsWaldo]

It was a denial and appeal was filed at the FFL.  As quoted from above they have 15 days to make a decision whether denial is upheld or approve it or issue "condition proceed".  Obviously has been over the 15 days and they say the appeal isnt denied just taking awhile.  As mentioned have nothing ever on my record that would dis qualify me from ownership.   Just annoyed as the dealer would sell to me on "condition proceed", but for whatever reason the TICS supervisor is moving at a snails pace.  I suppose the irony in this is I have never broken the law well with expection of illegal u-hand turn and dui all long ago in my life and made right by paying the fines or what not, yet the TBI/TICS is violating their own law of 15 days which is in writing or must issue the condition proceed..  I have tried to explain this to them, but they kinda have a meh attitude as ultimately they have the power to do what they want and probably don't think I will follow through with getting them to abide by the law.  The irony is kinda humorous, yet annoying.  

 

Not much i can do other then wait it out I suspect, but how they seem to just not give a rats behind is just annoying.  

 

Appreciate the responses so far.  I might call tomorrow and try to get a supervisor on the phone to have her issue either approval or the condition proceed as cite the article i linked above which the themselves are not following.

 

TICS is nothing like the normal FBI check it is like a lawyer on top of it that appears to be causing the problems as mentioned always been auto approved other than backwards TN checks on how the complicate things or appear to.

[Guest BCR#1]

Just another reason why I like private sales.

Bill

[TomInMN]

I wrote with the assumption that the FBI background check was still being performed with the 4473. That background check transaction is only valid for (I think) 30 days from the date the check is submitted.

So even if the Feds think everything is hunky-dorey and the only holdup is on the State side, if it goes longer than that 30-day window the gun can't be transferred with that first Federal background check paperwork. A new 4473 would have to be competed and a new Federal background check submitted.

[DaveTN]

You’ve been denied. They have 15 days to act on the appeal to the denial, but I don’t know what you can do other than trying to talk to a supervisor at TBI or hire an attorney. Acting under an emergency I guess they could extend those time; but that’s just a WAG. At 30 days you have to start over.

This has been discussed here many times. My experience was not the charge, but the fact that there was no disposition. It was a 25-year-old misdemeanor that was dismissed. Never stopped me from purchasing until I moved to Tennessee. I had to go through the Circuit Clerks Office where the charge occurred. They submitted the dismissal to the Feds, and I haven’t had a problem since. But they sent me notarized copies of the documents in case it happened again.

The TBI was no help; the BATF told me what the problem was and how to fix it.

12 hours ago, WhereIsWaldo said:

Not much i can do other then wait it out I suspect, but how they seem to just not give a rats behind is just annoying.  

They try their hardest to have a lot of denials for their yearly stats so they can point to them and claim they stop a lot of criminals from getting guns. It’s not important that’s not true.

[WhereIsWaldo]

Got a hold of a supervisor today.  Found out some more info..  Although tried to buy gun last month on the 27th and instant denied well close enough took about 5 mins.  Appeal faxed in by FFL that day.  Due to CV they took their time and actually the appeal process started out on the 7th, not the 27th... They had no real excuse other than CV and they were backed up, but still imo breaking the law, but without a lawyer I am kinda SOL with regards to that aspect.   With all that said tomorrow is the 15 days from the 7th and she said if they havent got the paperwork back that is causing me issues from AZ which it won't come back as all states are dysfunctional more-so than they already were prior to CV.  With that said she said they would issue "conditional proceed" tomorrow by end of day as that is their "15 day period although way beyond that".  So FFL should have paperwork tomorrow or Wednesday then will be able to get the firearm.  Least got alot better answer with a supervisor that felt a bit bad for me, but not the one handling my file as she was off today.  So hopefully will be able to pick up the gun from the FFL tomorrow as they say 9/10 times being the FFL that they will make the sell with a conditional proceed.  I suppose somehow I need to get it cleared up being the state that is causing me the issue although think it was just a traffic ticket that I failed to appear for and just paid it off and never was updated by whatever system TBI uses.  So tracking that one down from 10-20 years ago will be a joy :(.   Least it appears I should have the firearm wednesday if what she said was the truth, time will tell..  Thanks all and will circle back once I have it or don't have by the end of the week.

[Guest BCR#1]

My FFL won't accept a conditional approval and neither would I if I had an FFL. Maybe yours will.

 

Bill

[WhereIsWaldo]

They said they would on 9/10 people and said they are one of the few that do and a very large FFL dealer here in Nashville.  We shall see prefer to have a full blown approval.  Suppose one could buy out of state if they need be as have a license in another state as well although not sure if that is legal if they won't do it, but they said they do 9/10 people.  Probably a judgement call?  I have worked for the Pentagon as a Civilian contractor and various other jobs with security clearances which even makes this more wild why I can get past many other FBI and security checks, TBI holds me up lol

[Parrothead]

Two things; if you can’t get traction, contact your state rep. They are getting paid to cut through some of the red tape. 
 

If that doesn’t work, an attorney might. As you know, they typically don’t work for free. You're already paying the state rep so I’d start there. 

[WhereIsWaldo]

Just an update after having conversation with supervisor at TBI yesterday morning and basically stating they were dragging their feet and violating the law and quoting it, etc..  FFL dealer called today and issued a full approval vs. conditional.  They magically all of sudden got ahold of right entity in other state to get it cleared up..  Frustrating very frustrating, but in the end it all worked out.  Just a Ruger 9mm if curious. 

Thanks all and just closing the loop to this thread. 

[Guest BCR#1]

On 4/20/2020 at 6:24 PM, WhereIsWaldo said:

  Suppose one could buy out of state if they need be as have a license in another state as well although not sure if that is legal

That would be very illegal and that person would most likely lose more than their gun rights after their trial. Like I said earlier, private sales are the way to go if you don't want a paper trail back to you.

Bill

[TomInMN]

1 hour ago, BCR#1 said:

That would be very illegal and that person would most likely lose more than their gun rights after their trial. Like I said earlier, private sales are the way to go if you don't want a paper trail back to you.

Bill

Long guns can legally be purchased out of state, but only from an FFL and provided the FFL follows the laws of both States.

So, someone from NY can't legally go up to ME to buy that banned gun they've always wanted. But if they saw a great deal on something that was legal for them to purchase back home, and the state where they were had no prohibition on selling to folks from their state, they're good to go.

[Guest BCR#1]

6 minutes ago, TomInMN said:

Long guns can legally be purchased out of state, but only from an FFL and provided the FFL follows the laws of both States.

So, someone from NY can't legally go up to ME to buy that banned gun they've always wanted. But if they saw a great deal on something that was legal for them to purchase back home, and the state where they were had no prohibition on selling to folks from their state, they're good to go.

The OP insinuated if someone had a current DL from another state even though they no longer lived in that state and the gun is a hand gun, that person could just buy it there and then bring it back to Tennessee which is a big no-no. I thought the DMV wanted your out of state DL before they would issue a new one in your current state.

Bill