Coronavirus: The cure can’t be worse than the problem!

[DaveTN]

I have never seen President Trump dance around an issue like he did after making that statement yesterday. He finally said he is NOT talking months to get people back to work. I’ve been doing my part and staying at home, but I’ve told my wife, our country can’t continue like this until August; that’s crazy. I think everyone knows that, but now it is time for plan B.

He now says (Press conference today) he wants the country open by Easter. 19 days from now.

If business doesn’t open back up; our economy will collapse and that will kill people also. Manufacturing can’t be run from home. I guess the next few days will tell.

[MacGyver]

Morality aside - it doesn’t matter what Trump says.

The economy isn’t going to open back up until this is under control. It’s not like the economy is just some magic machine - it takes people.  And if the people get sick and are dying - they’re not going to work.

And, it’s a demand shock that our economy can’t really handle regardless. 80% of American GDP is consumer spending.  Well, what happens when no one is buying?

I get it that Trump is upset that six of his hotels are closed. I get it that the airlines are upset that no one is flying. I get it that the cruise companies (that are largely foreign flagged to bypass labor laws) are upset no one is taking their vacations.

But, if I told you that right now you could fly to New York, take a chartered bus across the city, stay in a nice hotel, have dinner in a fancy restaurant, then get on a cruise the next day and spend the next two weeks touring all the ports in Italy - and you can do it for $20/person. Would you do it?

That’s the heart of our problem right now. When you can’t sell at any price - it doesn’t matter what the political class says.

People aren’t buying. And, they’re not going to change that behavior until this pandemic is under control. 

[peejman]

Politicians gotta be politicking. 

Very little will change until we start to see the downslope of the virus curve. We're definitely not there yet. I hope that comes as soon as Easter, but I doubt it. 

[gregintenn]

I see a point rapidly approaching where the risk of starvation will be worse than the fear of a cold like virus.

I do not operate a hotel chain, airline, or cruise line.

Edited March 24, 2020 by gregintenn

[DaveTN]

No matter how much he is hated; it does matter what the President of the United States says. If he has the support of Medical professionals; people will go along with what he says.

Will asking people to go back to work cause the economy to recover? Not completely, people won’t be vacationing, traveling, or flying; but they may have an income.

I’m a 65 year old former smoker. So I’m high risk. I am retired and work part time from home. Would I be willing to go to work and risk getting a virus that kills ~1% of those infected, if it would help keep our economy from collapsing? Absolutely. My wife woks for a food company and their employees are “essential” and are working. My wife is putting herself at risk to help. I couldn’t ask that of her and me not be willing to do it.

[MacGyver]

14 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

No matter how much he is hated; it does matter what the President of the United States says. If he has the support of Medical professionals; people will go along with what he says.

Will asking people to go back to work cause the economy to recover? Not completely, people won’t be vacationing, traveling, or flying; but they may have an income.

I’m a 65 year old former smoker. So I’m high risk. I am retired and work part time from home. Would I be willing to go to work and risk getting a virus that kills ~1% of those infected, if it would help keep our economy from collapsing? Absolutely. My wife woks for a food company and their employees are “essential” and are working. My wife is putting herself at risk to help. I couldn’t ask that of her and me not be willing to do it.

There's not a medical professional alive that's going to go along with that - it's against their oath.

I get it that people are frustrated. As a small business owner - I hope that I've still got a viable business when this thing is done - and that I can last long enough to make it to that point.

The two are certainly connected - and there's a balance.  There's no universe in which you can focus on one to the exclusion of the other. It's not even a real argument.

I'm certain there are people who look at New York and California and think, "that's what they get for living on top of each other in these big cities. It won't be that bad here."

But, I'd encourage you to look at what's happening in Lander, Wyoming right now.  When this does hit rural America -whose hospitals have already been closed due to "streamlining" - the impact is going to be huge.

You're not going to restart the economy until this thing is under control.  Full stop. 

And, until the political class quits playing their zero sum games - the impact to both virus mitigation and the economy multiply each day.

 

[DaveTN]

12 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

There's not a medical professional alive that's going to go along with that - it's against their oath.

I get it that people are frustrated. As a small business owner - I hope that I've still got a viable business when this thing is done - and that I can last long enough to make it to that point.

The two are certainly connected - and there's a balance.  There's no universe in which you can focus on one to the exclusion of the other. It's not even a real argument.

I'm certain there are people who look at New York and California and think, "that's what they get for living on top of each other in these big cities. It won't be that bad here."

But, I'd encourage you to look at what's happening in Lander, Wyoming right now.  When this does hit rural America -whose hospitals have already been closed due to "streamlining" - the impact is going to be huge.

You're not going to restart the economy until this thing is under control.  Full stop. 

And, until the political class quits playing their zero sum games - the impact to both virus mitigation and the economy multiply each day.

 

Its not an all or nothing scenario.

Food workers are working so you can eat. Truck drivers and dock workers are working so you can eat. Firefighters and EMT’s are working so you have emergency medical help. Police Officers are working to respond to emergencies; whatever they may be.

No one is talking about forcing anyone to go back to work. That would up to the business owners and precautions can be taken.

Most of the manufacturing workers I worked with would probably be willing to work. Let those that are willing to step up do so, and those that have concerns can stay at home. No different that every other time our country ask for volunteers.

[MacGyver]

[Erik88]

It seems fairly clear to me what our choices are.

1) we pretend there isn't a problem and we go back to our daily lives. Millions will get sick. The majority of people will have minor symptoms and recover at home. 200k to 1.7M will die according to the CDC. During this time period the healthcare system will become completely overwhelmed. Unclear what impact this has on the economy. It might spare us from a depression. 

2) we continue down the path that we're on. Millions will likely still get sick but it shouldn't be at the same levels we would see if we didn't isolate. The economy will suffer greatly and the full extent won't be known until it's over. Lives will be saved if we go this route but we likely won't even know how many. Careers and businesses will be ruined.

I don't see option 1 being likely because even if Trump tries to tell us to go back to work a lot of states aren't going to do this. They will put more faith in the medical experts over a man who has no medical expertise and routinely contradicts his own medical staff.

People aren't going to start traveling and spending until this is over. I do think the public may get burned out by this though. Eventually, people will just start ignoring the shelter in place rules and will get tired of watching it on the news.

And I'm curious how this will impact the elections. Are we all gonna have to wear gloves and masks to go vote while standing 6 feet apart?

Despite what Trump says, this thing seems to be just getting started and it has exposed just how poorly prepared our government is at fighting this. God help us if we ever have a pandemic with a high mortality rate. 

[Chucktshoes]

It isn’t the manufacturing sector that has shut down, it’s the service sector. That’s become such a huge portion of our economy as we have transitioned from a manufacturing economy to a service/consumption market. I don’t have enough sense to throw my in own two cents, but I really do believe that on the back end of this as a country we need to reevaluate what kind of economy we want to be. If this whole thing is bringing anything home to me, it is the inherent risk of our vastly globalized economy and supply chains. Sure, farming out our manufacturing to third world nations has allowed us to fill our homes with a bunch of cheap crap, but at what cost?

[DaveTN]

2 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

If this whole thing is bringing anything home to me, it is the inherent risk of our vastly globalized economy and supply chains. Sure, farming out our manufacturing to third world nations has allowed us to fill our homes with a bunch of cheap crap, but at what cost?

Dang man, I hate it that it took a pandemic to make that obvious. I have been preaching that since way before Donald Trump was ever a consideration. I doubt you will be alone in coming to that realization, but I bet you are one of the few to openly admit it. 

[Chucktshoes]

1 minute ago, DaveTN said:

Dang man, I hate it that it took a pandemic to make that obvious. I have been preaching that since way before Donald Trump was ever a consideration. I doubt you will be alone in coming to that realization, but I bet you are one of the few to openly admit it. 

Yeah, the whole time I was writing that I understood that I was starting to sound like you.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Chucktshoes

[DaveTN]

1 minute ago, Chucktshoes said:

Yeah, the whole time I was writing that I understood that I was starting to sound like you.

I was going to warn you about that; but I thought I’d leave it alone. 

[DaveTN]

Trump is aiming for full churches on Easter Sunday.

Would I do that? No.

Risking your life to help others and risking your life for no reason, are two very different things.

[Chucktshoes]

Just now, DaveTN said:

Trump is aiming for full churches on Easter Sunday.

Would I do that? No.

Risking your life to help others and risking your life for no reason, are two very different things.

Can you say “outdoor service”?

[gregintenn]

22 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Trump is aiming for full churches on Easter Sunday.

Would I do that? No.

Risking your life to help others and risking your life for no reason, are two very different things.

No reason?

WOW!

[DaveTN]

4 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

No reason?

WOW!

Yes. Intermingling with a large crowd at church would be no different than the kids on the beach at Spring Break. I’m pretty sure my God will be okay with that.

[gregintenn]

2 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Yes. Intermingling with a large crowd at church would be no different than the kids on the beach at Spring Break. I’m pretty sure my God will be okay with that.

I disagree wholeheartedly.

[DaveTN]

1 minute ago, gregintenn said:

I disagree wholeheartedly.

It’s okay if I’m wrong. I have bigger things I’ll have to explain.

[btq96r]

I get that at some point, we have to get the economy in gear again, and I understand once the risk level falls below a certain level, we're going to be rolling the dice for those most vulnerable whether they like it or not.  That line is a philosophical question, fraught with moral complications...and it will almost certainly be against medical advice.   

But I'm still waiting to hear how we "get back to normal" if we haven't contained the spread of the virus.  Lifting measures currently in place before that happens could just reset to where we were a few weeks ago, and we'd be right back to where we are now (or worse if we try to push through it) once contagion reasserts itself.

Edited March 24, 2020 by btq96r

[MacGyver]

34 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Trump is aiming for full churches on Easter Sunday.

Would I do that? No.

Risking your life to help others and risking your life for no reason, are two very different things.

Somebody better call Bill Lee then - he just closed schools through the 24th.

No church wants to be like the one here in Nashville with 15 cases and counting.

I’ll be the first to admit that I dearly miss our people - but pastorally don’t see how we can put them at risk. We’re having to get creative - and it’s less than ideal - but it’s the right thing to do. 

[TomInMN]

13 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I disagree wholeheartedly.

So you're saying God will punish those who chose to avoid services in order to help mitigate the chances of exposing their fellow congregants to a potentially deadly disease?

[DaveTN]

I don’t know what will be suggested. I suspect we will be presented with two bad options.

The medical people will say we run the risk of people dying if folks go back to work.

The financial experts will say our economy is near crashing and if it does people will die.

Both are right.

And as far as Bill Lee….he will be in charge and be making the hard choices. It will be the same for all Governors, Mayors, Business Owners, etc. Heck with the authority; the Feds don’t have the ability to override them.

I’m not a financial expert and don’t pretend to be. But I don’t think you need to be to understand that we can’t simply hide behind closed doors and let those that feed us and protect us do the heavy lifting.

[Garufa]

Speaking of actual cures I read earlier today that some genius out in Arizona discovered that aquarium cleaner has some form of chloroquine in it.  He did not survive and his wife is now in stable condition.

[FUJIMO]

1 hour ago, Garufa said:

Speaking of actual cures I read earlier today that some genius out in Arizona discovered that aquarium cleaner has some form of chloroquine in it.  He did not survive and his wife is now in stable condition.

We've seen examples of stupid throughout the years on TGO. This is right up there with them .