Transfer question

[pops572]

Not sure if this is the right place, so mods feel free to move to the appropriate forum. I know it is legal to sell FTF without a FFL, but can someone point out the actual law. I am trying to convince someone that it is not necessary to involve a FFL in a transfer but they are hesitant, because they " don't want the gun still registered in their name" they don't believe the 4473 they filled out is not a registration. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Guest bkelm18]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

[Guest bkelm18]

That being said, some people refuse to believe the truth and only believe the rumors they heard, no matter what you show them.

[Luckyforward]

That being said, some people refuse to believe the truth and only believe the rumors they heard, no matter what you show them.

Very, very well said, sir . . .

[pops572]

Aha, gracias. Maybe this will convince them. thanks again

[Guest bkelm18]

Aha, gracias. Maybe this will convince them. thanks again

No problemo.

[Punisher84]

That being said, some people refuse to believe the truth and only believe the rumors they heard, no matter what you show them.

Now wait, so you're telling me there really aren't alligators in the sewers? Cause I know a guy who was on the bus next to a guy who's cousin dated a guy...

[Guest bkelm18]

Now wait, so you're telling me there really aren't alligators in the sewers? Cause I know a guy who was on the bus next to a guy who's cousin dated a guy...

Hey, lets maintain a little class around here ok?

[Punisher84]

Hey, lets maintain a little class around here ok?

Sorry Dad.

[Oh Shoot]

Aha, gracias. Maybe this will convince them. thanks again

Well, ya know, you CAN fill out a bill of sale which he can keep for proof that it wasn't him that went on the killing spree with it, if it'll make him feel better.

- OS

[Smith]

If I read that correct I can "rent" a gun to someone out of state and not have to use a FFL? Interesting loop hole I might try out!

[Guest jwp]

If I read that correct I can "rent" a gun to someone out of state and not have to use a FFL? Interesting loop hole I might try out!

In your own state, or in a state which you are physically located at the time with reasonable proximity to the weapon.

[pops572]

Well, this is the last response I got after sending the ATF link and trying my best to explain.

"For it to be on federal record that I sold this gun to you, you/we will need to go through a licensed FFL, since they are required to send the notice of transfer to the gov't for their records.

I realize for legal purposes this does not need to happen, however, I do not want to keep up with a 'bill of sale' between us so in the future, if need be, I have to prove that the gun is no longer in my possession & responsibility.

Sorry if this is an inconvenience. I can meet you at Guns & Leather and your guy can do the transaction so we can both have a copy of the transaction.

thank you"

It is an auction that I am winning right now, but now I kinda hope someone outbids me. I guess it's true some people just won't believe the truth even when smacked in the face with it.

[Guest bkelm18]

Well, this is the last response I got after sending the ATF link and trying my best to explain.

"For it to be on federal record that I sold this gun to you, you/we will need to go through a licensed FFL, since they are required to send the notice of transfer to the gov't for their records.

I realize for legal purposes this does not need to happen, however, I do not want to keep up with a 'bill of sale' between us so in the future, if need be, I have to prove that the gun is no longer in my possession & responsibility.

Sorry if this is an inconvenience. I can meet you at Guns & Leather and your guy can do the transaction so we can both have a copy of the transaction.

thank you"

It is an auction that I am winning right now, but now I kinda hope someone outbids me. I guess it's true some people just won't believe the truth even when smacked in the face with it.

If you don't want to go through the trouble, don't pay for it. Tell him so. If he leaves a non paying bidder report, report back the he was unwilling to go through with a lawful transfer or something. Not much you can do though.

[Guest c_o_jones]

Seller is stuck on stupid. I'm afraid there is no fix for that.

[Guest bkelm18]

To add, and I hate to say it, but you shoulda consulted with him before placing the bid. One thing I dislike about GB is there is no way to retract a bid.

[pops572]

To add, and I hate to say it, but you shoulda consulted with him before placing the bid. One thing I dislike about GB is there is no way to retract a bid.

Yeah, I know but got caught up in the moment and have done several FTF so it didn't occur to me that he wouldn't be willing tomeet, until I asked if he would be willing to meet North of Nashville for the FTF and he threw in the "sure be willing to meet at a dealer". So it is my fault, and I did make the bid, and i will go through with the sale if I win, just kinda hate the extra hassle. Oh well at least he will meet me close to home.

Edited February 16, 2009 by pops572

[Guest Disney]

If HE insists on going through an FFL, the HE should be the one to pay for the transfer.

[I_Like_Pie]

Pay the $35 and when at the gun shop...make sure the person doing the transfer lets the seller know that he is 7 shades of stupid.

After the sale is done...Can also personally tell him he is a fool.

[DaveTN]

It doesn’t sound to me like he doesn’t believe what you are saying. It sounds like he just wants to go through an FFL. I have seen that requirement posted in ads right here on this forum. I wouldn’t require it, but I can see how some people might want to do it.

[S&WForty]

I'll revive the thread with a twist. What if you purchase a gun FTF from someone with a bill of sale, and you later learn they only work in your state, but live a few miles away over the state line?

[Guest bkelm18]

I'll revive the thread with a twist. What if you purchase a gun FTF from someone with a bill of sale, and you later learn they only work in your state, but live a few miles away over the state line?

Well, its a little late at that point. If I were in that situation, I'd shred the Bill of Sale and move on.

[Oh Shoot]

I'll revive the thread with a twist. What if you purchase a gun FTF from someone with a bill of sale, and you later learn they only work in your state, but live a few miles away over the state line?

Save us the tax bucks to prosecute you - just drive on over to Leavenworth and assume the position, eh?

- OS

[DaveTN]

I'll revive the thread with a twist. What if you purchase a gun FTF from someone with a bill of sale, and you later learn they only work in your state, but live a few miles away over the state line?

Then the violation was committed by him in the state of Tennessee. I don’t see you having any problems. Unless of course he was to get arrested for the illegal sale; in which case your gun would be seized as evidence.

[S&WForty]

Thanks for the replies.