Legal Sign??

[nod]

I came across this sign today. To my understanding this sight doesn't meet the regulation (no force of law). Am I correct?

Thanx

 

[hatz215]

I believe it also has to contain wording similar to:

 

AS AUTHORIZED BY TCA § 39-17-1359, POSSESSION OF A WEAPON ON POSTED PROPERTY OR IN A POSTED BUILDING IS PROHIBITED AND IS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE

[nod]

I have been looking online and the only sign I could find was a new sign that was introduced in 2016.

 

[DaveTN]

39-17-1359. Prohibition at certain meetings — Posted notice — Handgun carry permit holder.
(a) 
(1) Except as provided in § 39-17-1313, an individual, corporation, business entity, or local, state, or federal government entity or agent thereof is authorized to:
(A) Prohibit the possession of weapons by any person who is at a meeting conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the individual, corporation, business entity, or government entity; or
(B) Restrict the possession of weapons by any person who is at a meeting conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the individual, corporation, business entity, or government entity by allowing a handgun to be carried in a concealed manner only by persons authorized to carry a handgun pursuant to § 39-17-1351 or § 39-17-1366.
(2) The prohibition in subdivision (a)(1) shall apply to any person who is authorized to carry a firearm by authority of § 39-17-1351 or § 39-17-1366.
(b) 
(1) Notice of the prohibition or restriction permitted by subsection (a) shall be accomplished by displaying the notice described in subdivision (b)(3) in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited or restricted. The notice shall be plainly visible to the average person entering the building, property, or portion of the building or property, posted.
(2) The notice required by this section shall be in English, but a duplicate notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons, customers, or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited or restricted.
(3) 
(A) A sign shall be used as the method of posting.
(B) 
(i) A sign prohibiting possession in accordance with subdivision (a)(1)(A) shall include the phrase “NO FIREARMS ALLOWED”, and the phrase shall measure at least one inch (1″) high and eight inches (8″) wide. The sign shall also include the phrase “As authorized by T.C.A. § 39-17-1359”.
(ii) The sign shall include a pictorial representation of the phrase “NO FIREARMS ALLOWED” that shall include a circle with a diagonal line through the circle and an image of a firearm inside the circle under the diagonal line. The entire pictorial representation shall be at least four inches (4″) high and four inches (4″) wide. The diagonal line shall be at a forty-five degree (45°) angle from the upper left to the lower right side of the circle.
(C) 
(i) A sign restricting possession in accordance with subdivision (a)(1)(B) shall include the phrase “CONCEALED FIREARMS BY PERMIT ONLY”, and the phrase shall measure at least one inch (1″) high and eight inches (8″) wide. The sign shall also include the phrase “As authorized by T.C.A. §§ 39-17-1351, 39-17-1359, and 39-17-1366”.
(ii) The sign shall include a pictorial representation of the phrase “CONCEALED FIREARMS BY PERMIT ONLY” that shall include a circle with a diagonal line through the circle and an image of a firearm inside the circle. The entire pictorial representation shall be at least four inches (4″) high and four inches (4″) wide. The diagonal line shall be at a forty five degree (45°) angle from the upper left to the lower right side of the circle.
(4) An individual, corporation, business entity, or government entity that, as of January 1, 2018, used signs to provide notice of the prohibition permitted by subsection (a) shall have until January 1, 2019, to replace existing signs with signs that meet the requirements of subdivision (b)(3).
(c) 
(1) It is an offense to possess a weapon in a building or on property that is properly posted in accordance with this section.
(2) Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500).
(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to alter, reduce or eliminate any civil or criminal liability that a property owner or manager may have for injuries arising on their property.
(e) This section shall not apply to title 70 regarding wildlife laws, rules and regulations.
(f) Except as provided in subsection (g), this section shall not apply to the grounds of any public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof. The carrying of firearms in those areas shall be governed by § 39-17-1311.
(g) 
(1) Except as provided in subdivision (g)(2), nothing in this section shall authorize an entity of local government or a permittee thereof to enact or enforce a prohibition or restriction on the possession of a handgun by an enhanced handgun carry permit holder or concealed handgun carry permit holder on property owned or administered by the entity unless the following are provided at each public entrance to the property:
(A) Metal detection devices;
(B) At least one (1) law enforcement or private security officer who has been adequately trained to conduct inspections of persons entering the property by use of metal detection devices; and
(C) That each person who enters the property through the public entrance when the property is open to the public and any bag, package, and other container carried by the person is inspected by a law enforcement or private security officer described in subdivision (g)(1)(B) or an authorized representative with the authority to deny entry to the property.
(2) Subdivision (g)(1) does not apply to:
(A) Facilities that are licensed under title 33, 37, or 68;
(B) Property on which firearms are prohibited by § 39-17-1309 or § 39-17-1311(b)(1)(H)(ii);
(C) Property on which firearms are prohibited by § 39-17-1306 at all times regardless of whether judicial proceedings are in progress;
(D) Buildings that contain a law enforcement agency, as defined in § 39-13-519;
(E) Libraries; or
(F) Facilities that are licensed by the department of human services, under title 71, chapter 3, part 5, and administer a Head Start program.
 

[nod]

Thank you Dave. I must admit I find that a bit confusing. Regardless, I believe I can carry inside the law as the sign is not the correct sign. Correct me if I am wrong. I carry OWB with a t-shirt handing over the pistol. More than likely the pistol would go unnoticed anyway. If it was noticed and I was asked to leave I would leave. Six months ago there were no signs at this doctor's office.

[DaveTN]

10 minutes ago, nod said:

Thank you Dave. I must admit I find that a bit confusing. Regardless, I believe I can carry inside the law as the sign is not the correct sign. Correct me if I am wrong. I carry OWB with a t-shirt handing over the pistol. More than likely the pistol would go unnoticed anyway. If it was noticed and I was asked to leave I would leave. Six months ago there were no signs at this doctor's office.

For years there have been many discussions about signs and sign laws. Yet we have yet to have a member say they were cited for carrying past one. There was one, but he was carrying into a courthouse and he was charged criminally and got probation, so his arrest wasn’t for a sign. Signs are fine only.

I ask a Murfreesboro Officer about it and he said when they are called, they give trespass warnings. He said he has never heard of a person going back and getting arrested.

My point being, while it’s illegal, your chance of being cited for carrying past a sign, when you are concealed, is pretty slim. It could cost you $500 and some think you would lose your HCP; I don’t think you would, but I have been wrong before.

[nod]

If I have to go back I will just carry IWB. I carried over twenty years in Florida (no open carry) with out issue. Actually went a couple places I wasn't suppose to be (accidentally) and no problems. 

Thanx

[DWARREN123]

It's is somebody's property and the sign says they do not want anyone carrying there. 

[Raoul]

1 hour ago, nod said:

If I have to go back I will just carry IWB. I carried over twenty years in Florida (no open carry) with out issue. Actually went a couple places I wasn't suppose to be (accidentally) and no problems. 

Thanx

Why would you want to do business with someone who disrespects you? I just don't get you guys that would do business with someone who has very plainly shown they don't want you in their place of business.

[nod]

4 minutes ago, Raoul said:

Why would you want to do business with someone who disrespects you? I just don't get you guys that would do business with someone who has very plainly shown they don't want you in their place of business.

Actually you are correct. The doctor was an optometrist who saw my wife after she had a stroke. I asked her to tell them she wouldn't be back for a follow up due to the sign. Unfortunately she just decided she would not go back. The fact is she doesn't need to go back in a year. 

[JN01]

3 hours ago, DaveTN said:

My point being, while it’s illegal, your chance of being cited for carrying past a sign, when you are concealed, is pretty slim. It could cost you $500 and some think you would lose your HCP; I don’t think you would, but I have been wrong before.

If the permitless carry bill passes, wouldn't you then still be able to carry in TN even if the HCP was suspended/revoked?

[DaveTN]

12 hours ago, JN01 said:

If the permitless carry bill passes, wouldn't you then still be able to carry in TN even if the HCP was suspended/revoked?

Maybe. Unless of course your issues cause you to be ineligible to possess a gun.

[tnhawk]

On 3/11/2020 at 5:42 PM, DWARREN123 said:

It's is somebody's property and the sign says they do not want anyone  there. 

Fixed it for ya.  I try not to do business with those who don't appreciate my being on their property.

[m16ty]

The sign seems to indicate that if you are open carrying you are ok.