SARS-2-CoV (COVID-19)

[Raoul]

7 minutes ago, Omega said:

Yea, no.  The administration started looking at the numbers and wanted to investigate how numbers were reported, and they decided not to be caught lying, so corrected their data to reflect more realistic data. 

You're such an optimist

[Omega]

5 minutes ago, Raoul said:

You're such an optimist

I am a thinker, and I've heard too many medical professionals reporting that death certificates are not being recorded properly.  One nurse has good video evidence showing the crooked happenings in the NY hospital she was assigned to, and I am sure it wasn't the only one.  Then there is the chart that cuomo put up, from the 2nd largest numbers to almost flatline...yea, right.

[Oh Shoot]

1 hour ago, Omega said:

I am a thinker, and I've heard too many medical professionals reporting that death certificates are not being recorded properly.  One nurse has good video evidence showing the crooked happenings in the NY hospital she was assigned to, and I am sure it wasn't the only one.  Then there is the chart that cuomo put up, from the 2nd largest numbers to almost flatline...yea, right.

The CDC also keeps up with overall death counts, and the Covid era shows an uncharacteristic uptick that is actually greater than the generally reported total that has no apparent explanation other than Covid. Indeed, the Covid attributions may be well under counted, due to all the folks who died while not under medical care and received no autopsy, which is pretty common in rural communities and small towns.

Ya know, there's every indication that Covid deaths will at least equal the total US military deaths during WWII. And just think, we here at home have had few of the hardships the general population suffered during that. No rationing, hard work stints in munitions factories, etc. All we really needed to do is adhere to a few reasonable science based defenses.

But unlike during WWII, there's no national will to do that and that starts at the top. Even the most severe part of our national sacrifice, loss of income, could have been ameliorated by a concerted federal response. There has only been irrational raving, blame chasing, mis/dis information, and token legislation/orders.

 DJT has been Covid's best friend, and all only because of his perception of what's best for him.

We don't need herd immunity, we need herd intelligence, even though there's none at the top to nurture it.

- OS

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Oh Shoot
speeeling and such

[Omega]

57 minutes ago, Oh Shoot said:

The CDC also keeps up with overall death counts, and the Covid era shows an uncharacteristic uptick that is actually greater than the generally reported total that has no apparent explanation other than Covid. Indeed, the Covid attributions may be well under counted, due to all the folks who died while not under medical care and received no autopsy, which is pretty common in rural communities and small towns.

Ya know, there's every indication that Covid deaths will at least equal the total US military deaths during WWII. And just think, we here at home have had few of the hardships the general population suffered during that. No rationing, hard work stints in munitions factories, etc. All we really needed to do is adhere to a few reasonable science based defenses.

But unlike during WWII, there's no national will to do that and that starts at the top. Even the most severe part of our national sacrifice, loss of income, could have been ameliorated by a concerted federal response. There has only been irrational raving, blame chasing, mis/dis information, and token legislation/orders.

 DJT has been Covid's best friend, and all only because of his perception of what's best for him.

We don't need herd immunity, we need herd intelligence, even though there's none at the top to nurture it.

- OS

 

Quite delusional, Trump didn't send positive cases back to the nursing homes, didn't balk at putting travel restrictions on China, make it illegal for an old known drug to be used.  As a nation we will rally around a cause when those in power work together and as one give us a plan, but no, POTUS has to go it alone, with practically every Demo fighting him tooth and nail.  You can believe what you want, but I'll stick to what I can verify, and what I see, and that is that 99% or more are safe from this, and there was no need to shut down this economy for as long as it has.  Once the science started, and it has for a long time, showing who were most at risk, they should have adjusted.  But even now, there are states with draconian laws in place, arresting people for not wearing masks, all the while refusing to stop these riots.  Yea, all Trump's fault, SMFH.   

Edited September 1, 2020 by Omega

[Oh Shoot]

4 hours ago, Omega said:

Quite delusional, Trump didn't send positive cases back to the nursing homes,

Took no action period. When you create a void, there are 50 states that have to fill it for better or worse.

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didn't balk at putting travel restrictions on China, ...

Partially. For those with Chinese passports only though. There were still 50-75 flights per day coming into LA, SF, and NY from Beijing. 

Quote

make it illegal for an old known drug to be used.  

Which has close to zero effectiveness, if any at all.

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As a nation we will rally around a cause when those in power work together and as one give us a plan, but no, POTUS has to go it alone,   

His "going it alone" has mainly been to downplay the extent and seriousness of Covid since the gitgo, squelch the science of his own agencies, suggest hare-brained stuff like bleach infusion, and hold super spreader events.

Quote

with practically every Demo fighting him tooth and nail. ..

What has he even seriously proposed that they fight him on? He doesn't even know what's in the legislation that gets submitted, will pick out one little part to opine on at best. Hell, he didn't (and presumably still doesn't) know what "Covid 19" even stands for, suggesting there would be a "Covid 20, and so on.

Quote

You can believe what you want, but I'll stick to what I can verify, and what I see, and that is that 99% or more are safe from this,...

I would debate that stat, and also the definition of "safe" as regards all who contract it. I'd say the long term jury is still out for all the folks who have kicked it with "minor symptoms" too.

Quote

and there was no need to shut down this economy for as long as it has.  ..

Seeing 190, 000 deaths (just so far and perhaps only half the final total) as an acceptable loss for more coin in the pocket is a pretty harsh judgement, sounds like the Obama "death panels" railed against so fiercely from the right re the ACA.

Quote

Once the science started, and it has for a long time, showing who were most at risk, they should have adjusted.  But even now, there are states with draconian laws in place, arresting people for not wearing masks, all the while refusing to stop these riots.  Yea, all Trump's fault, SMFH.   

Yep, it is. Since he has denied any responsibility for the whole shebang (in his own words), and with no national guidelines except the ones from his own health agencies that he denigrates,  he has simply created a void that gets filled in 50 different ways and with hundreds of subsets therein,  often with just as crackpot "solutions" as his own, both from the left and the right.

This country was transformed forever in so many ways starting overnight after 9/11, And that was over a loss of 3,000 folks. We've been losing over 1,000 per DAY for months. With absolutely no cohesive federal plan beyond drink bleach, open everything up, and we'll have a vaccine next week

Since the majority of those deaths have been seniors, it really shows the priorities regarding the (previous)  "every life is sacred" part of the GOP platform. But of course, there really isn't a GOP anymore -- it was telling that for the first time, there wasn't even a written platform during the RNC, appropriate since the party has abandoned any semblance of fidelity to at least half it's former tenets. It's simply TrumpVille, follow whatever whim the psycho goes with.

Btw, these ignored seniors vote in the highest percentage of any age group.

- OS

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Oh Shoot

[btq96r]

10 hours ago, xsubsailor said:

You just don't know what to believe anymore  

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has issued a new report detailing how many COVID-19 deaths in America also involved other underlying health conditions.

According to the report, only 6% of the COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. list COVID-19 as the only cause of death. 94% of COVID-19 deaths involved at least one other underlying health condition, and on average involved "2.6 additional conditions or causes of death."

 

https://disrn.com/news/new-cdc-report-says-94-of-covid-deaths-had-underlying-conditions

Not surprising that many who've died had underlining conditions...plenty of American's do.  Just using myself, I'm hypertensive and overweight.  The devil is in the details, though.  My blood pressure is kept well in norms with proper medication and physician visits every six months, and while I've got a belly to show how well fed I am, I can also walk three miles in an hour without keeling over for breath, and then go about my day after a shower.  If I get sick from COVID and kick the bucket, neither of those conditions will have killed me, the COVID did because without it, I was living an ordinary life with proper medical treatment and exercise.

But I'm a-okay not having to prove that point.

[Chucktshoes]

3 hours ago, btq96r said:

Not surprising that many who've died had underlining conditions...plenty of American's do.  Just using myself, I'm hypertensive and overweight.  The devil is in the details, though.  My blood pressure is kept well in norms with proper medication and physician visits every six months, and while I've got a belly to show how well fed I am, I can also walk three miles in an hour without keeling over for breath, and then go about my day after a shower.  If I get sick from COVID and kick the bucket, neither of those conditions will have killed me, the COVID did because without it, I was living an ordinary life with proper medical treatment and exercise.

But I'm a-okay not having to prove that point.

I would actually disagree with that. It comes off quite a bit like the guy leaned over the toilet throwing up his guts going on about how he “shouldn’t have had that last drink,” never mind the 11 before it. 
 

 As someone who is 60+ lbs overweight and borderline hypertensive with signs of insulin resistance likely hurtling me towards Type 2 diabetes, if I catch COVID-19 and kick the bucket it wasn’t the ‘Rona that killed me. My diet and lifestyle did. If I have a heart attack tomorrow, they may put that on my death certificate, but it was my diet and lifestyle that did me in. It’s no different than if I did heroin and picked up a blood infection. Was it the blood infection that killed me, or my lifestyle and heroin addiction? 
 

The advanced ability of modern medicine to paper over our illnesses allows most of us to ignore the fact that we are killing ourselves with our diet and lifestyles. So what I see on that list is a lot of folks that wouldn’t have died if they hadn’t already spent decades pushing themselves to the edge of the cliff. 

[Erik88]

27 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

I would actually disagree with that. It comes off quite a bit like the guy leaned over the toilet throwing up his guts going on about how he “shouldn’t have had that last drink,” never mind the 11 before it. 
 

 As someone who is 60+ lbs overweight and borderline hypertensive with signs of insulin resistance likely hurtling me towards Type 2 diabetes, if I catch COVID-19 and kick the bucket it wasn’t the ‘Rona that killed me. My diet and lifestyle did. If I have a heart attack tomorrow, they may put that on my death certificate, but it was my diet and lifestyle that did me in. It’s no different than if I did heroin and picked up a blood infection. Was it the blood infection that killed me, or my lifestyle and heroin addiction? 
 

The advanced ability of modern medicine to paper over our illnesses allows most of us to ignore the fact that we are killing ourselves with our diet and lifestyles. So what I see on that list is a lot of folks that wouldn’t have died if they hadn’t already spent decades pushing themselves to the edge of the cliff. 

I get your point but there is a line between being accountable and victim blaming. Some people have hereditary issues through no fault of their own. Other people are lazy slobs that don't take care of themselves. Saying a COVID death shouldn't count if someone was fat is a bit harsh in my opinion.  I know that's not exactly how you put it, but it's how it sounds.

The truth is, we have no idea how many COVID deaths have been from people that were already near death or severely unhealthy. 190,000 deaths is embarrassing. We're the 11th worst in the world for deaths per million people. There are 3rd world ####holes(as Trump called them) doing better than us. On a policy level I'm not sure what Trump could have done but his overall lack of leadership, and repeatedly calling this a "hoax" is the real failure in my opinion. He has a cult-like following and people take what he says as gospel, even when he's so obviously wrong. 

[Chucktshoes]

21 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I get your point but there is a line between being accountable and victim blaming. Some people have hereditary issues through no fault of their own. Other people are lazy slobs that don't take care of themselves. Saying a COVID death shouldn't count if someone was fat is a bit harsh in my opinion.  I know that's not exactly how you put it, but it's how it sounds.

The truth is, we have no idea how many COVID deaths have been from people that were already near death or severely unhealthy. 190,000 deaths is embarrassing. We're the 11th worst in the world for deaths per million people. There are 3rd world ####holes(as Trump called them) doing better than us. On a policy level I'm not sure what Trump could have done but his overall lack of leadership, and repeatedly calling this a "hoax" is the real failure in my opinion. He has a cult-like following and people take what he says as gospel, even when he's so obviously wrong. 

Folks in this country eschew a lot of blame for their actions. Individually and collectively as a nation nobody seems to want to accept responsibility for their own messes. Folks also make up a lot of stuff claiming Trump said it. Like calling COVID-19 a hoax. He never actually did that. 

[Omega]

7 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

Took no action period. When you create a void, there are 50 states that have to fill it for better or worse.

Partially. For those with Chinese passports only though. There were still 50-75 flights per day coming into LA, SF, and NY from Beijing. 

Which has close to zero effectiveness, if any at all.

His "going it alone" has mainly been to downplay the extent and seriousness of Covid since the gitgo, squelch the science of his own agencies, suggest hare-brained stuff like bleach infusion, and hold super spreader events.

What has he even seriously proposed that they fight him on? He doesn't even know what's in the legislation that gets submitted, will pick out one little part to opine on at best. Hell, he didn't (and presumably still doesn't) know what "Covid 19" even stands for, suggesting there would be a "Covid 20, and so on.

I would debate that stat, and also the definition of "safe" as regards all who contract it. I'd say the long term jury is still out for all the folks who have kicked it with "minor symptoms" too.

Seeing 190, 000 deaths (just so far and perhaps only half the final total) as an acceptable loss for more coin in the pocket is a pretty harsh judgement, sounds like the Obama "death panels" railed against so fiercely from the right re the ACA.

Yep, it is. Since he has denied any responsibility for the whole shebang (in his own words), and with no national guidelines except the ones from his own health agencies that he denigrates,  he has simply created a void that gets filled in 50 different ways and with hundreds of subsets therein,  often with just as crackpot "solutions" as his own, both from the left and the right.

This country was transformed forever in so many ways starting overnight after 9/11, And that was over a loss of 3,000 folks. We've been losing over 1,000 per DAY for months. With absolutely no cohesive federal plan beyond drink bleach, open everything up, and we'll have a vaccine next week

Since the majority of those deaths have been seniors, it really shows the priorities regarding the (previous)  "every life is sacred" part of the GOP platform. But of course, there really isn't a GOP anymore -- it was telling that for the first time, there wasn't even a written platform during the RNC, appropriate since the party has abandoned any semblance of fidelity to at least half it's former tenets. It's simply TrumpVille, follow whatever whim the psycho goes with.

Btw, these ignored seniors vote in the highest percentage of any age group.

- OS

 

So, Never Trump huh?

[Chucktshoes]

Just now, Omega said:

So, Never Trump huh?

I used to be.
 

 

Until I wasn’t. 

[Erik88]

12 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Like calling COVID-19 a hoax. He never actually did that. 

Ok. He said this was the democrats new hoax. So if you want to get that specific, that's fine. My point was that he repeatedly downplayed COVID for weeks and weeks while giving contradicting statements during that same time. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/44-times-trump-downplayed-the-coronavirus/2020/03/05/790f5afb-4dda-48bf-abe1-b7d152d5138c_video.html

[Erik88]

2 minutes ago, Omega said:

So, Never Trump huh?

Nice Punt....

[FUJIMO]

8 minutes ago, Omega said:

So, Never Trump huh?

I never bought in to TDS until OS contracted it

[Omega]

7 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

Nice Punt....

I'd call that a spike.

[FUJIMO]

56 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Folks in this country eschew a lot of blame for their actions. Individually and collectively as a nation nobody seems to want to accept responsibility for their own messes. Folks also make up a lot of stuff claiming Trump said it. Like calling COVID-19 a hoax. He never actually did that. 

THIS saved me a lot of typing. Theres many old posts of mine on here during Baracks presidency stating the same changes in responsibility of society. Thats long before Trump, BLM wave 1, Antifa,etc. 

I understand its hard for a parent to accept the fact they raised a pu$$y but their caving to pressure from group think via social media is now starting to cost us on a large scale.

Edited September 1, 2020 by FUJIMO

[Chucktshoes]

10 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

Ok. He said this was the democrats new hoax. So if you want to get that specific, that's fine. My point was that he repeatedly downplayed COVID for weeks and weeks while giving contradicting statements during that same time. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/44-times-trump-downplayed-the-coronavirus/2020/03/05/790f5afb-4dda-48bf-abe1-b7d152d5138c_video.html

Then you should say that. While it doesn’t doesn’t have the same punch as saying he called it a hoax, it’s also more accurate and less easily dismissible. 
 

On the flip side, if one were to look at my posts since this all began you would find my views on it have changed significantly as well. I started off believing it was every bit as serious and deadly as the most chicken little of the press would have folks believe.

 

I’m decidedly less convinced of that being the case than I was 6 months ago. 

[Chucktshoes]

3 minutes ago, FUJIMO said:

THIS saved me a lot of typing. Theres many old posts of mine on here during black jesus' presidency stating the same changes in responsibility of society. Thats long before Trump, BLM wave 1, Antifa,etc. 

I understand its hard for a parent to accept the fact they raised a pu$$y but their caving to pressure from group think via social media is now starting to cost us on a large scale.

I’ve wagged my finger at folks for using derisive names for Trump, and I’ll hold to the same line here. 
 

Political discussion and debate is debased when we use unseemly names like “Black Jesus” or “Cheeto Jesus” (one I used and regret during the 16 campaign) to refer to public figures. Call folks whatever you want elsewhere, but here, please use their actual names. It’s a fine line, but one I’ve drawn here. Call Obama a liar, Trump a fascist, AOC and Bernie commies if you want, I don’t really care. But call them all by their names when you do. 

[FUJIMO]

One doesn't need to look any further than through the 85 pages of this thread to see how the wave has changed. Somewhere near the beginning the CDC said it was bad,wear mask, tuck your panties,etc. Trump said they were wrong, public opinion says Trumps a idiot for not listening. Now CDC says hey,we were off, its not that bad, maybe you even don't need testing if you aren't showing symptoms. Common sense chit but sheep need a leader so whatever. But because it aligns with what Trump said to start with NOW the CDC has fallen under Trumps spell and you abandon the CDC , lmao. People crack me up 

[FUJIMO]

1 minute ago, Chucktshoes said:

I’ve wagged my finger at folks for using derisive names for Trump, and I’ll hold to the same line here. 
 

Political discussion and debate is debased when we use unseemly names like “Black Jesus” or “Cheeto Jesus” (one I used and regret during the 16 campaign) to refer to public figures. Call folks whatever you want elsewhere, but here, please use their actual names. It’s a fine line, but one I’ve drawn here. Call Obama a liar, Trump a fascist, AOC and Bernie commies if you want, I don’t really care. But call them all by their names when you do. 

My apologies CTS, I fixed it. 

[Chucktshoes]

2 minutes ago, FUJIMO said:

My apologies CTS, I fixed it. 

I appreciate it. I do believe that often little things go a long way towards maintaining civility. 

[E4 No More]

1 hour ago, Chucktshoes said:

Folks in this country eschew a lot of blame for their actions. Individually and collectively as a nation nobody seems to want to accept responsibility for their own messes. Folks also make up a lot of stuff claiming Trump said it. Like calling COVID-19 a hoax. He never actually did that. 

And the Kamala birther thing. He said that he had no idea about that, yet someone on this very forum recently claimed that he said it.

[Omega]

Back to China Virus; How does this virus affect the overall death rate...not much!  As a matter of fact, it seems higher during Obama's last term.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/death-rate

 

[btq96r]

5 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

I would actually disagree with that. It comes off quite a bit like the guy leaned over the toilet throwing up his guts going on about how he “shouldn’t have had that last drink,” never mind the 11 before it. 
 

 As someone who is 60+ lbs overweight and borderline hypertensive with signs of insulin resistance likely hurtling me towards Type 2 diabetes, if I catch COVID-19 and kick the bucket it wasn’t the ‘Rona that killed me. My diet and lifestyle did. If I have a heart attack tomorrow, they may put that on my death certificate, but it was my diet and lifestyle that did me in. It’s no different than if I did heroin and picked up a blood infection. Was it the blood infection that killed me, or my lifestyle and heroin addiction? 
 

The advanced ability of modern medicine to paper over our illnesses allows most of us to ignore the fact that we are killing ourselves with our diet and lifestyles. So what I see on that list is a lot of folks that wouldn’t have died if they hadn’t already spent decades pushing themselves to the edge of the cliff. 

Fair points, and even in my hypocrisy I agree personal responsibility has fallen by the wayside.  But the examples you gave have direct relationships to each other.  COVID-19 is an independent variable transmitting.  Obesity and hypertension can absolutely lead to heart attacks in a natural progression if left unchecked or after so long- but they can't lead to COVID-19.

While I'm sure there are some who died while  having COVID-19 with it not exacerbating the underlining condition enough to make a difference, I'm thinking there are a lot more people who would be alive today- even if not for long and/or in bad shape- had COVID-19 never gotten out of the lab or wet market.

[Omega]

8 hours ago, btq96r said:

Fair points, and even in my hypocrisy I agree personal responsibility has fallen by the wayside.  But the examples you gave have direct relationships to each other.  COVID-19 is an independent variable transmitting.  Obesity and hypertension can absolutely lead to heart attacks in a natural progression if left unchecked or after so long- but they can't lead to COVID-19.

While I'm sure there are some who died while  having COVID-19 with it not exacerbating the underlining condition enough to make a difference, I'm thinking there are a lot more people who would be alive today- even if not for long and/or in bad shape- had COVID-19 never gotten out of the lab or wet market.

I can get behind that, but when you muddy the water by counting those that die due to accidents and the like, and when you intentionally infect some who may not of contracted the virus in the first place, well then many of the rest come into question.