SARS-2-CoV (COVID-19)

[hipower]

On 6/7/2020 at 9:54 AM, peejman said:

Note that the hospitals here haven't been anywhere near capacity in the past 4 months.  Most have been virtually empty.   Given that society has been reopened for 2 weeks, if sick people aren't flocking to the hospitals now, I doubt they will. 

 

I rather agree with you on this.

However, while talking with another member over the weekend...this was one of the topics of conversation.

I asked his opinion, and he expressed that the Covid 19 was a possible candidate for a second, even possibly a third round of infections.

I expressed my comments saying that I was dubious, as so much hasn't truly been kosher in this whole situation.

So, we disagreed on the topic. No harm, no foul.

We all have opinions. We base them on reports from "knowledgeable and reputable" sources. The problem is, that for me, there are simply too many of these sources all contradicting themselves and the "facts."

I'd say we are split about 35/65 on those that disbelieve and those that do. I'm being loose with my interpretation of the numbers. Being a skeptic as well as a card-carrying tinfoil cap guy these days...it might even be as close as a 50/50 mix.

I base that on the number of people I see wearing vs not wearing any kind of "protective" mask.  The younger crowd seem so much more not to wear, while the percentage of we older folks seem to be more worried about it.

All opinion and speculation on my part though.

[Omega]

12 hours ago, hipower said:

I rather agree with you on this.

However, while talking with another member over the weekend...this was one of the topics of conversation.

I asked his opinion, and he expressed that the Covid 19 was a possible candidate for a second, even possibly a third round of infections.

I expressed my comments saying that I was dubious, as so much hasn't truly been kosher in this whole situation.

So, we disagreed on the topic. No harm, no foul.

We all have opinions. We base them on reports from "knowledgeable and reputable" sources. The problem is, that for me, there are simply too many of these sources all contradicting themselves and the "facts."

I'd say we are split about 35/65 on those that disbelieve and those that do. I'm being loose with my interpretation of the numbers. Being a skeptic as well as a card-carrying tinfoil cap guy these days...it might even be as close as a 50/50 mix.

I base that on the number of people I see wearing vs not wearing any kind of "protective" mask.  The younger crowd seem so much more not to wear, while the percentage of we older folks seem to be more worried about it.

All opinion and speculation on my part though.

How old is older?  I'm 55, and just today wore a mask for the first time (all of 20 minutes or so), because it was mandatory in a VA facility.  I am not worried in the least about this, I think much of this has been too politicized and that makes me even more skeptical about the whole thing.

[E4 No More]

4 minutes ago, Omega said:

How old is older?  I'm 55, and just today wore a mask for the first time (all of 20 minutes or so), because it was mandatory in a VA facility.  I am not worried in the least about this, I think much of this has been too politicized and that makes me even more skeptical about the whole thing.

I went to the VA last week for a labs. I was told that everyone had to wear a mask inside. When I went into the lab there were 4 employees not wearing masks.

[hipower]

Just now, Omega said:

How old is older?  I'm 55, and just today wore a mask for the first time (all of 20 minutes or so), because it was mandatory in a VA facility.  I am not worried in the least about this, I think much of this has been too politicized and that makes me even more skeptical about the whole thing.

From the general and personal observations I have made, I would estimate the mid 50's and older are the most likely to be seen wearing a mask in a group or public setting.

I am in agreement with you on this whole situation.

My wife watched Outbreak again last night. As the loose virus is repeatedly referred to as a weapon during the movie, she kept looking over at me and asking something like "Is this true? Think that's what's going on now?"

I just sat smugly and silently. I've trained her well.

[Omega]

2 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

I went to the VA last week for a labs. I was told that everyone had to wear a mask inside. When I went into the lab there were 4 employees not wearing masks.

Yea, I was "screened" when I went in but had to ask if mask was mandatory, but could have probably just went in without it as I had already past the screening desk when I asked.  

[Omega]

2 minutes ago, hipower said:

From the general and personal observations I have made, I would estimate the mid 50's and older are the most likely to be seen wearing a mask in a group or public setting.

I am in agreement with you on this whole situation.

My wife watched Outbreak again last night. As the loose virus is repeatedly referred to as a weapon during the movie, she kept looking over at me and asking something like "Is this true? Think that's what's going on now?"

I just sat smugly and silently. I've trained her well.

Good for her, mine is a mix, blindly voting for these libs all the while complaining about the policies. smh.

[hipower]

19 minutes ago, Omega said:

Good for her, mine is a mix, blindly voting for these libs all the while complaining about the policies. smh.

Surprisingly, my wife, having grown up in a very strong, almost rabidly Republican family; was very much a liberal when we met.

But her attributes made me look past her politics. And get your minds out of the gutters guys!

Somehow, over the years with me, and being a very smart lady, she watched the world and has changed her viewpoint. 

I was just the opposite. I grew up in a very strongly Democrat family. When I moved away and started looking at how politicans and politics were changing; I started looking and talking more conservative. Dad and I had more than a few short hot arguments over it.

[xsubsailor]

21 minutes ago, hipower said:

Surprisingly, my wife, having grown up in a very strong, almost rabidly Republican family; was very much a liberal when we met.

But her attributes made me look past her politics. And get your minds out of the gutters guys!

Somehow, over the years with me, and being a very smart lady, she watched the world and has changed her viewpoint. 

I was just the opposite. I grew up in a very strongly Democrat family. When I moved away and started looking at how politicans and politics were changing; I started looking and talking more conservative. Dad and I had more than a few short hot arguments over it.

 “If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals — if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.”

                                                                                                     Ronald Reagan

[Pollextor]

Our state finally easing the lockdown, I can finally open my auto shop and do some hunting. Finally, I can use my new Fenix PD35 https://tacticalflashlightguide.com/fenix/pd35-review/! So excited to try its performance.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Pollextor

[Grayfox54]

Who knows what to believe anymore? This thing has been a total mess from the beginning. The virus is real and people do die. That much is certain. But contradictory info from dozens of different sources just confuse matters even more. I'm 66 and have been diagnosed with COPD. I wear a mask when out in public. But I've noticed lately that more and more people aren't wearing masks. Especially younger folks. I think we may have reached a stage of apathy. People are just so tired of all the BS that they just don't care anymore. 

[MacGyver]

2 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

Who knows what to believe anymore? This thing has been a total mess from the beginning. The virus is real and people do die. That much is certain. But contradictory info from dozens of different sources just confuse matters even more. I'm 66 and have been diagnosed with COPD. I wear a mask when out in public. But I've noticed lately that more and more people aren't wearing masks. Especially younger folks. I think we may have reached a stage of apathy. People are just so tired of all the BS that they just don't care anymore. 

You may have seen in the press a couple of weeks ago where a couple of hair stylists in Missouri tested positive for COVID-19, and there was a big outcry about all the clients they had seen and how many would get sick.

Both the stylists and the clients were wearing masks at the time of contact.

The incubation period has now passed, and none of the 140+ clients have tested positive.

That by itself is a testament to masks - maybe not being perfect - but significantly lowering the risk of transmission.

So, I look at it two ways:

1. If you are in at at risk population - definitely wear a mask.

2. I look at it personally in terms of compassion - I'm going to wear a mask - because even though I'm generally low risk - I don't want to spread it to someone who may not be.

 

[peejman]

16 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

You may have seen in the press a couple of weeks ago where a couple of hair stylists in Missouri tested positive for COVID-19, and there was a big outcry about all the clients they had seen and how many would get sick.

Both the stylists and the clients were wearing masks at the time of contact.

The incubation period has now passed, and none of the 140+ clients have tested positive.

That by itself is a testament to masks - maybe not being perfect - but significantly lowering the risk of transmission.

So, I look at it two ways:

1. If you are in at at risk population - definitely wear a mask.

2. I look at it personally in terms of compassion - I'm going to wear a mask - because even though I'm generally low risk - I don't want to spread it to someone who may not be.

 

To @Grayfox54 point above... Or were the hair stylists false positives?

[Omega]

3 minutes ago, peejman said:

To @Grayfox54 point above... Or were the hair stylists false positives?

Which brings up a good point, how good are these tests?  Are the tests even a thing?  I mean, 24 hour turn-around for some places?  Hell, how long have you guys waited for CWD testing results?

[bersaguy]

I think most of the numbers depend on who your listening to at that time and moment. Every station you watch has different numbers. If you stop and think about it a few minutes of course the numbers will change each day depending on how many test results get reported that day but many of those test may be a couple weeks old and just now being added to the total. That goes for local numbers and nation wide numbers. Until they stop testing for a 30 day period nation wide and locally and give all the test results time to all get in is the only way the numbers could be accurate. Testing only keeps everyone not knowing the real total. Even then those numbers will not be true numbers because there are still millions of people that have not been tested. The daily numbers are what the politicians are concerned about so they know if they can begin to re open the country or a local area can reopen certain businesses. Those daily numbers are no more accurate then the monthly numbers because many of the tests being reported are probably at least a week or longer old and mixed with tests from a couple days ago. This entire operation from day one has been a cluster of not really knowing what to do about the problem and will be as long as the Virus exists with no treatment for it. I think both the Governor and Mayor of Nashville have both figured out that they are chasing their tails and have quit doing the daily reports because they really have no solution to fix the real problem. I think the 2 million dollars worth of tainted masks they were handing out was the final straw in their effort to give their daily reports to the public.....JMHO

[bud]

.

Edited December 24, 2020 by bud

[Moped]

43 new cases in Knox County, since last Friday.  Hospitalizations are up to 6. No new deaths.  There have been 503 known cases, so far.

https://covid.knoxcountytn.gov/case-count.html

 

[Erik88]

1 minute ago, Moped said:

43 new cases in Knox County, since last Friday.  Hospitalizations are up to 6. No new deaths.  There have been 503 known cases, so far.

https://covid.knoxcountytn.gov/case-count.html

 

6 people out of 470,000 residents. Only 114 active cases. 

Not that anyone asked, but I don't believe the data supports closing the entire country again. It made sense in population dense areas like NY. It doesn't make sense for us. We have hospitals here in Knoxville that have only seen 1-2 COVID patients.  I'd like to see an option where high risk individuals could choose to stay home and receive unemployment assistance. I'm seeing elderly folks that are out and about and not even wearing masks. Apparently they don't care about COVID anymore. 

[hipower]

1 minute ago, Erik88 said:

6 people out of 470,000 residents. Only 114 active cases. 

Not that anyone asked, but I don't believe the data supports closing the entire country again. It made sense in population dense areas like NY. It doesn't make sense for us. We have hospitals here in Knoxville that have only seen 1-2 COVID patients.  I'd like to see an option where high risk individuals could choose to stay home and receive unemployment assistance. I'm seeing elderly folks that are out and about and not even wearing masks. Apparently they don't care about COVID anymore. 

I agree with the first comment concerning data and closing the economy.

As for the second statement; many of us older geezers have begun to suspect this was all a major scam. Many of us do wear facial covering in certain places, but from what I've seen in the last 2 weeks, usage is dropping rapidly among us.

Those I see wearing cover the most are retail workers being told to, and many of your generation are wearing cover still.

In fact on my stops this morning at a Harbor Freight and Kroger, under 30/40 were the highest numbers I saw.

Seems almost like a reversal. JMO  

[E4 No More]

I tend to help myself to the hand sanitizer frequently and keeping my distance, but I'm not wearing masks. The paper masks seem to do a pretty poor job of fitting to my face well enough to do the job. I have a cloth mask with a breathing vent, but I still can't move enough oxygen to be comfortable walking slowly through the grocery store. I bought some inexpensive neck gaiters, but they are too tight and slip down. I did order a couple of Mission gaiters because I know they aren't too tight, and I plan to wear them when I go into the store. Outside I don't care because the sun's UV light kills that crap in seconds. I also supplement my diet with vitamins and extra doses of vitamins C and D.

I also suspect that I may have had this crap in January. I went for about a two week period of what I thought was a mild case of viral pneumonia. My pulse oxygen was low and I couldn't breath well. Talked to a VA doctor last Monday who said that I may be right because they now think the virus was in the US and China a couple of months earlier than they thought. I asked if they had any antibody tests for it to which he told me that the current antibody test wasn't very accurate because there are several versions of that type of virus just as there's different types of the flu. He also said that our immunity to this virus is not like polio where you get one shot and it covers you til death. He said it'll probably need annual vaccination like the flue.

[bud]

.

Edited December 24, 2020 by bud

[xsubsailor]

[Oh Shoot]

IHME shows big jump for us.

3,652 COVID-19 deaths projected by October 1, 2020

 

This of course according to current unchecked trends and social behavior.

 

Nationwide, has jumped to:

 

169,890 COVID-19 deaths projected by October 1, 2020

 

And of course that's just in time for the winter surge, which the southern hemisphere is now starting to experience.

 

The market certainly took it all to heart today, eh?

 

- OS

[Patrick Henry]

Wonder if it will be just in time to push for mail in voting? 

[Omega]

38 minutes ago, Patrick Henry said:

Wonder if it will be just in time to push for mail in voting? 

Already there: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/04/judge-tennessee-must-allow-vote-by-mail-for-all-amid-virus-302574

Judge: Tennessee must allow postal voting for all amid virus

NASHVILLE, Tenn. — Tennessee must give all of its 4.1 million registered voters the option to cast ballots by mail during the coronavirus pandemic, a judge ruled Thursday.

Davidson County Chancellor Ellen Hobbs Lyle ruled that the state’s limits on absentee voting during the pandemic constitute “an unreasonable burden on the fundamental right to vote guaranteed by the Tennessee Constitution.”

The decision upends a determination by Republican Secretary of State Tre Hargett’s office that fear of catching or unwittingly spreading the virus at the polls wouldn’t qualify someone to vote by mail. The state argued such an expansion wouldn’t be feasible for the 2020 elections, claiming lack of money, personnel and equipment for increased voting by mail, among other concerns.

The ruling is likely to be appealed.

The decision requires the state to “prominently post on their websites and disseminate to County Election Officials that voters who do not wish to vote in-person due to the COVID-19 virus situation are eligible to request an absentee ballot by mail or that such voters still have the option to vote in-person during Early voting or on Election Day.”

The judge wrote that the state has taken an “unapologetic” position and has relied on “oddly skewed” assumptions — including assuming preparations for 100% of registered voters to vote absentee if all were allowed — that go against its own expert and industry standards. Eleven other states, meanwhile, have taken a “can-do approach” by relaxing voting by mail restrictions for the 2020 election, Lyle wrote.

“When, however, normal industry-recognized assumptions are used, the evidence establishes that the resources are there to provide temporary expanded access to voting by mail in Tennessee during the pandemic if the State provides the leadership and motivation as other states have done,” the judge wrote.

Tennessee has more than a dozen categories that qualify someone for an absentee ballot, from being sick to being 60 or older.

The Republican-led Legislature and GOP Gov. Bill Lee have dismissed the idea of offering absentee ballots to all voters, with lawmakers voting against Democratic expansion proposals more than once this week as they meet during pandemic times.

Instead, state election officials have recommended preparations as though all 1.4 million registered voters 60 and older — about 1 of every 3 registered voters — will cast mail-in ballots in the August primary. Historically, Tennessee has historically seen less than 2.5% of votes cast by mail, the state has said.

About a third of states, including Tennessee, require a reason to vote absentee, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Plaintiffs’ attorneys said Wednesday that about a dozen states have made the change to allow by-mail ballots this year for all registered voters. Several states have been sued to seek the expansion.

Several states who have refused have been sued, including Texas, where a federal judge last month ordered absentee voting be made available to any voter in the pandemic.

Tennessee’s voter turnout was 14% in the August 2016 primary, then almost 62% for the November 2016 general election, featuring the presidential election. In the 2018 non-presidential year, about 30% of registered voters turned out for the August primary, and 54% in the November election.

Tennessee’s August election will be another test case as U.S. states try to safely prepare for the fall general election highlighted by the re-election bid of President Donald Trump, who has been staunchly against opening up absentee voting to everyone during the pandemic.

The state court lawsuits were led by #UpTheVote901 and by the American Civil Liberties Union of Tennessee.

“This is a major victory for voting rights, said Dale Ho, director of the ACLU’s Voting Rights Project. “This ruling eliminates the excuse requirement for the 2020 elections, meaning Tennesseans will not have to risk their health in order to vote.”

The Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law and the Campaign Legal Center have filed a similar federal lawsuit.

[Erik88]

The real reason the GOP is so against mail in voting is because it will encourage more poor people to vote. There is no evidence it's going to lead to more voter fraud. Trump even established that voter fraud committee at the beginning of his term and they had to disband it after not finding the proof they were looking for. 

When I lived in Florida we always did mail in ballots and it was nice. 

After thinking about it, a lot of older people here are going to vote for Trump but they are also high risk and may want to stay home. Seems like the GOP might want to reconsider their stance or risk having people chose to stay home rather than go stand in a huge crowd. We know Georgia just failed miserably because they had fewer machines set up to help encourage social distancing. Elderly people can't stand in line for 3-4 hours. 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Erik88