SARS-2-CoV (COVID-19)

[Raoul]

2 hours ago, MacGyver said:

If they’d actually leave me alone, I might agree to it. 

Amen to that.

[bud]

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Edited December 24, 2020 by bud

[DaveTN]

18 minutes ago, bud said:

I know this all sounds cold and calculating and money driven, but people working is what keeps us all alive. We know this is what Governor Lee and politicians are weighing, and I care about the real numbers and dollars and cents too, and wish to be informed so that I can weigh the impact myself. 

Someone is running these numbers for every Governor of every state. Who is this person and how do we get the numbers?

You are correct. I have thought that from the beginning. We can’t keep business shut down unless we are willing to pay the ultimate price, the collapse of our economy. I suspect that death toll would far exceed the virus.

I have the feeling that is what Trump and other leaders are deciding right now. First, he said he would be making an announcement on Tuesday. Yesterday he said it would be in the next few days.

I assume he is coordinating with the Governors. But I don’t expect you or I to see any numbers to decide on the impact. Your decision nor mine carries any weight.

BTW… I’m 65 years old and retired, so I’m one that you have already decided is useless. But the numbers absolutely don’t show that only the old will die; best of luck to you and your family. But if they have to choose between putting my health at risk and the economy collapsing; I’m okay with opening things back up.

[bud]

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Edited December 24, 2020 by bud

[DaveTN]

14 minutes ago, bud said:

 I didnt infer that you were useless, and didn't mean to hurt your feelings by talking real dollars and cents and about the fact that your remaining lifespan will likely have less of a positive economic impact on the country, than someone who is say 45. I have parents your age and an immuno-compromised father.

Even if it hurts your feelings, the politicians and deciders are talking about the same numbers I'm talking about wanting here. 

You didn’t hurt my feelings. I’m just pointing out that if you are trying to justify killing a bunch of old people to save the economy; that won’t work. Kids are going to die, and you have to be okay with sacrificing them too.

I’m not arguing with you; I’m agreeing with what you obviously want to do. I just don’t think you are being realistic or honest about the cost.

[bud]

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Edited December 24, 2020 by bud

[DaveTN]

19 minutes ago, bud said:

 Got it. Thanks. I was just talking average age of those who die of coronavirus. I don't even know what that age is, but I'm guessing it would be 50 plus?As a father of a young child myself am very afraid for the children who would lose their lives.

They now believe that very few people are infected with casual interaction or torching surfaces. They believe most transmissions are from extended interactions in a confined area. (Work home, school) Is that true? I have no idea. So even if schools are not started back up, but Mom and Dad are working; the chances of the kids being infected if the parents are infected are pretty good. If school resumes the chances are even greater.

 The CDC estimates 61,000 people died during the 2017–2018 influenza season. We didn’t shut anything down.

[bud]

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Edited December 24, 2020 by bud

[DaveTN]

My “local internet resources” are supplied by Xfinity, not Google. So I assume this means Google is having issues with their servers.

Quote

 

In response to community issues caused by COVID-19, we’re temporarily adjusting your camera quality and bandwidth in an effort to conserve internet resources.

With so many people working and attending school from home, we’re stretching our resources in ways we haven’t before—including the internet. As local internet resources are stretched past their limits, you and many others may have noticed interruptions like dropped video calls or frozen screens. During this time, it’s critical for us to work together to ensure we find ways to help the community at large.

To answer the global call from ISPs to prioritize bandwidth for learning and working, in the next few days we’re going to be adjusting the quality and bandwidth setting on Nest cameras to the default setting.

This change is temporary, and you may notice a difference in quality, but only the quality and bandwidth setting will be adjusted. All other settings will stay the same, and all core features will continue to work. However, if your needs require a higher video quality setting, you can easily change it back at any time by going to your camera settings.

You’ll see a notification from your Nest app when the change has been made, and we’ll let you know when this setting is restored to its original state. You don’t need to do anything, but if you have questions or need help you can find more information on our support page.

This is one of the many ways Google is helping people stay safe, informed, and connected. One way you can help is by making sure your cameras are only on when you need them by using a schedule, or using Home/Away Assist. We thank you for being part of our Nest community, and together we can help ensure that everyone stays connected during this unprecedented time.

The Google Nest team

 

 

[Erik88]

61,000 people died in a 6-7 month period. We've had 24,000 die since March 25th. 338 a day versus 1,200. And that's after shutting down 42 states. Having said that, I still wonder if we've done more damage than was necessary. I have no idea what to think at this point but I know I'm not going to compare it to the flu. 

 

[E4 No More]

1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

 The CDC estimates 61,000 people died during the 2017–2018 influenza season. We didn’t shut anything down.

The big differences here are that there are flu vaccines for those who wish to receive one, and this virus appears to be a lot more contagious than the flu. If this virus were to start mutating like the flu or cold does then we'd REALLY be screwed. Even if the flu vaccine that you get doesn't cover the particular strain that you get infected with it still reduces the severity of your body's response. This is not the case for COVID-19 since there is no vaccine to begin with. And the shutting down thing was so that this highly contagious virus doesn't overwhelm the health system thus causing more deaths than necessary.

[GlockSpock]

6 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

My “local internet resources” are supplied by Xfinity, not Google. So I assume this means Google is having issues with their servers.

 

It doesn't matter what your ISP is or isn't. What's happening is Google is cutting the resolution of your Nest cameras as a whole to reduce overall network use.

You have ISP A, B, and C. They can transport 10 DATA units each. That's 30 DATA units whole. Google has a service, Called NEST. All of their cameras, nationwide, use 20 DATA units. That means ISP A, B, and C only have a "spare" 10 DATA units. Google says, "Hey we will help!". They cut their resolution in half, therefore on a national level Google only uses 10 DATA units and now ISP A, B, and C have a spare 20 DATA units.

That's essentially what happened. Netflix did the same thing in the UK (maybe worldwide) amongst others. It's to "free up the tubes" since the amount of videoconferencing, etc has went up potentially exponentially. 

 

Of course data units are called bytes and I made these numbers up out of nowhere, you get the general idea.

[DaveTN]

6 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

61,000 people died in a 6-7 month period. We've had 24,000 die since March 25th. 338 a day versus 1,200. And that's after shutting down 42 states. Having said that, I still wonder if we've done more damage than was necessary. I have no idea what to think at this point but I know I'm not going to compare it to the flu. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

The big differences here are that there are flu vaccines for those who wish to receive one, and this virus appears to be a lot more contagious than the flu. If this virus were to start mutating like the flu or cold does then we'd REALLY be screwed. Even if the flu vaccine that you get doesn't cover the particular strain that you get infected with it still reduces the severity of your body's response. This is not the case for COVID-19 since there is no vaccine to begin with. And the shutting down thing was so that this highly contagious virus doesn't overwhelm the health system thus causing more deaths than necessary.

Okay, so lets stay shut down. I have absolutely no doubt that will result in more deaths than the virus, and families left in financial ruin. But I could be wrong.

[gregintenn]

I’d like to see a comparison of how many people die on an average day versus how many are dying on a given day now.

I’d bet that if you figure in how many people haven’t died in a workplace accident, car accident, aborted, medical malpractice, etc., there wouldn’t be much of an increase over normal death rates.

Do we have any statisticians or actuaries on the forum?

Edited April 14, 2020 by gregintenn

[E4 No More]

9 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

 

Okay, so lets stay shut down. I have absolutely no doubt that will result in more deaths than the virus, and families left in financial ruin. But I could be wrong.

Had they not shut many down there would be a hell of a lot more people infected in this country than currently are. That would have grossly overwhelmed the hospitals and a far greater death toll would be the result. This is clearly something that required being managed, and you can't leave it up to A-hole employers to do the right thing as evidenced by the Gallatin nursing home that told a sick employee to come to work or be fired and thus infected the entire nursing home resulting in numerous deaths. In my decades on this earth I have encountered numerous employers just like that , so it is certainly NOT an anomaly. 

IMHO, they need to open back up in phases and allow at-risk employees to continue working from home without retribution.

[DaveTN]

6 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

Had they not shut many down there would be a hell of a lot more people infected in this country than currently are. That would have grossly overwhelmed the hospitals and a far greater death toll would be the result. This is clearly something that required being managed, and you can't leave it up to A-hole employers to do the right thing as evidenced by the Gallatin nursing home that told a sick employee to come to work or be fired and thus infected the entire nursing home resulting in numerous deaths. In my decades on this earth I have encountered numerous employers just like that , so it is certainly NOT an anomaly. 

IMHO, they need to open back up in phases and allow at-risk employees to continue working from home without retribution.

My guess would be that those that can work from home are a miniscule percentage of the work force, and the percentage of manufacturing workers or the service industry that could do that is zero.

[gregintenn]

10 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

Had they not shut many down there would be a hell of a lot more people infected in this country than currently are. That would have grossly overwhelmed the hospitals and a far greater death toll would be the result. 

I hear this time and again. Can it be proven?

[bud]

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Edited December 24, 2020 by bud

[E4 No More]

10 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

My guess would be that those that can work from home are a miniscule percentage of the work force, and the percentage of manufacturing workers or the service industry that could do that is zero.

I'll give you a personal example. I WFH normally and my wife is currently, BUT if they had their way she'd be sitting at her desk right now although the only physically present task is she has is to sign checks once a month. I know this because they denied her WFH at the beginning of this until a case turned up in their building. I would imagine someone pointed out liability concerns at that point.

My house contains 4 at risk people including my wife and I with me being the most at risk. If this crap comes in this house before a solid treatment is decided only I would likely die.

Edited April 14, 2020 by E4 No More

[E4 No More]

Just now, bud said:

I think you are right about the country as a whole. Now we need to move forward based on state specific conditions and not treat this a a federal mandate. As you know,  Tn is more ready to re-start than many others.

I would agree with that.

[E4 No More]

3 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I hear this time and again. Can it be proven?

Prove something that was prevented? OK, look at how quickly Seattle and NYC were overwhelmed. Imagine that had no action been taken at all.

[DaveTN]

1 minute ago, bud said:

Now we need to move forward based on state specific conditions and not treat this as a federal mandate.

That is what Trump has said time after time. He wants this handled at the state level, but is meeting with the great minds to see what they recommend. Of course all the media, and the Trump haters is interested in doing is arguing about situations that have not taken place, and laying blame.

 

[DaveTN]

15 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

I'll give you a personal example. I WFH normally and my wife is currently, BUT if they had their way she'd be sitting at her desk right now although the only physically present task is she has is to sign checks once a month. I know this because they denied her WFH at the beginning of this until a case turned up in their building. I would imagine someone pointed out liability concerns at that point.

My house contains 4 at list people including my wife and I with me being the most at risk. If this crap comes in this house before a solid treatment is decided only I would likely die.

I work from home also, but I’m a part time CNC programmer; I’m overhead and they don’t absolutely need me. They must have programmers on the floor to interface with the machine set-up men and operators.

Our economy is based on product being made and sold, or a service. Most of these “at home” jobs are people that in some way or another support a product being made or service being offered and are really not essential in the big picture.  

The other issue that I have seen too many times firsthand is that many people, especially the young, can’t work without supervision when they are in the building, let alone when they are at home. And I would bet that would be the biggest problem with "work from home". 

[E4 No More]

6 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

I work from home also, but I’m a part time CNC programmer; I’m overhead and they don’t absolutely need me. They must have programmers on the floor to interface with the machine set-up men and operators.

Our economy is based on product being made and sold, or a service. Most of these “at home” jobs are people that in some way or another support a product being made or service being offered and are really not essential in the big picture.  

The other issue that I have seen too many times firsthand is that many people, especially the young, can’t work without supervision when they are in the building, let alone when they are at home. And I would bet that would be the biggest problem with "work from home". 

Essential personnel should be given utmost protection but there are numerous examples of where they are not. The employer should be held responsible for that 

I work for a very large IT company that hires thousands of young'uns that work from home. They manage out those who refuse to perform their duties. The problem is many in senior management are either control-freaks or just plain too old to embrace change.

[DaveTN]

17 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

Essential personnel should be given utmost protection but there are numerous examples of where they are not. The employer should be held responsible for that 

I work for a very large IT company that hires thousands of young'uns that work from home. They manage out those who refuse to perform their duties. The problem is many in senior management are either control-freaks or just plain too old to embrace change.

Absolutely, you have to be a control freak to run a manufacturing operation. I’ve known many business owners that are control freaks. Some were azzhat control freaks and some were nice guy control freaks, but all were control freaks if they had a profitable business. Most were old, and most embraced change if it helped their business, change for change sake; not so much.

But keep in mind I’m talking about a manufacturing facility, not an IT company. It’s harder to find quality people, even those that will work from home, when they have to be available to come to Shelbyville, TN on a couple hour’s notice.

Edited April 14, 2020 by DaveTN