SARS-2-CoV (COVID-19)

[GlockSpock]

However, something else I've been thinking about regarding the numbers.

Sure, it is easy to point out that hospitals are seeing something like a 97% un-vaccinated rate when looking at hospitalizations and/or deaths, etc etc. However, if instead of separating people into groups of vaccinated or un-vaccinated we separate them into groups of those that take the virus seriously or those that do not take the virus seriously, consider how that may shape the numbers. For the people that take the virus seriously, a larger percent of them probably took the vaccine early. They are also more likely to exercise things such as social distancing, mask wearing, etc. For those that do not take the virus seriously, they are more likely to not get vaccinated, not social distance, and not wear a mask, and thus for all of those reasons combined be more likely to get COVID.

It's just extremely interesting to me to look at every statistic in a correlation/causation standpoint.

[FUJIMO]

2 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

However, something else I've been thinking about regarding the numbers.

Sure, it is easy to point out that hospitals are seeing something like a 97% un-vaccinated rate when looking at hospitalizations and/or deaths, etc etc. However, if instead of separating people into groups of vaccinated or un-vaccinated we separate them into groups of those that take the virus seriously or those that do not take the virus seriously, consider how that may shape the numbers. For the people that take the virus seriously, a larger percent of them probably took the vaccine early. They are also more likely to exercise things such as social distancing, mask wearing, etc. For those that do not take the virus seriously, they are more likely to not get vaccinated, not social distance, and not wear a mask, and thus for all of those reasons combined be more likely to get COVID.

It's just extremely interesting to me to look at every statistic in a correlation/causation standpoint.

If it's one thing the MSM has always excelled at it's spewing partial statistics to align with their narrative. This is nothing new.

[Erik88]

3 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

However, something else I've been thinking about regarding the numbers.

Sure, it is easy to point out that hospitals are seeing something like a 97% un-vaccinated rate when looking at hospitalizations and/or deaths, etc etc. However, if instead of separating people into groups of vaccinated or un-vaccinated we separate them into groups of those that take the virus seriously or those that do not take the virus seriously, consider how that may shape the numbers. For the people that take the virus seriously, a larger percent of them probably took the vaccine early. They are also more likely to exercise things such as social distancing, mask wearing, etc. For those that do not take the virus seriously, they are more likely to not get vaccinated, not social distance, and not wear a mask, and thus for all of those reasons combined be more likely to get COVID.

It's just extremely interesting to me to look at every statistic in a correlation/causation standpoint.

I think the argument can also be made that some that have taken the vaccine are no longer being careful. I know I fall into this category. I stopped wearing a mask months ago and go all sorts of places that are full of people. I still wash my hands because people are nasty but I could definitely be more careful. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Erik88

[mikegideon]

1 minute ago, Erik88 said:

I think the argument can also be made that some that have taken the vaccine are no longer being careful. I know I fall into this category. I stopped wearing a mask months ago and go all sorts of places that are full of people. I still wash my hands because people are nasty but I could definitely be more careful. 

I know people that caught covid right through those BS masks. I have no faith in them.

[FUJIMO]

5 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I think the argument can also be made that some that have taken the vaccine are no longer being careful. I know I fall into this category. I stopped wearing a mask months ago and go all sorts of places that are full of people. I still wash my hands because people are nasty but I could definitely be more careful. 

This goes through my mind when they are promoting vaxxed only get togethers. That gives a person a false sense of security

[GlockSpock]

5 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

I know people that caught covid right through those BS masks. I have no faith in them.

That's not science. What if every single one of those people touched a dirty doorknob then licked their fingers while eating a cheeseburger? Or maybe they stood close to someone who coughed in their eyeball because they were sick and not wearing a mask?

I bet you could find evidence of people dying while wearing a bullet-proof vest. Does that mean they are ineffective and shouldn't be worn?

Edited August 26, 2021 by GlockSpock

[gregintenn]

11 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

That's not science. What if every single one of those people touched a dirty doorknob then licked their fingers while eating a cheeseburger? Or maybe they stood close to someone who coughed in their eyeball because they were sick and not wearing a mask?

I bet you could find evidence of people dying while wearing a bullet-proof vest. Does that mean they are ineffective and shouldn't be worn?

Do you wear one everywhere you go? A vest that is?

[Omega]

1 hour ago, btq96r said:

If we're getting a <0.01% chance of something become the driver of headlines, we're just not going to make it as a society. 

That didn't stop them from making all the headlines about this CCP virus when it was well under that.

[btq96r]

Just now, Omega said:

That didn't stop them from making all the headlines about this CCP virus when it was well under that.

True enough when it comes to death...but there's no denying how contagious it is, and the risk of too many people being so sick they can't safely work at one time for orderly functions as we know them (think truckers or police working at 75% availability).

[xsubsailor]

[GlockSpock]

8 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Do you wear one everywhere you go? A vest that is?

No, neither do I a mask. I was simply pointing out the line of equivalent thinking. Something can be helpful but not foolproof. If used correctly something can help keep you safe. A hardhat doesn't protect you if you get hit on the head by a 10 ton boulder. A seat-belt doesn't help you if you get squished between two 18-wheelers. A gun doesn't protect you if you get caught-up in a missile strike.

Is it possible that a mask helps slow the spread of viruses? Pointing to two people you know and saying "they wore masks but still got COVID" does not mean that masks do not work at all.

[gregintenn]

31 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

No, neither do I a mask. I was simply pointing out the line of equivalent thinking. Something can be helpful but not foolproof. If used correctly something can help keep you safe. A hardhat doesn't protect you if you get hit on the head by a 10 ton boulder. A seat-belt doesn't help you if you get squished between two 18-wheelers. A gun doesn't protect you if you get caught-up in a missile strike.

Is it possible that a mask helps slow the spread of viruses? Pointing to two people you know and saying "they wore masks but still got COVID" does not mean that masks do not work at all.

I agree it probably doesn’t hurt. The point I was trying to make is that there are myriad things we can do to make our lives marginally safer, but we weigh the risk/reward and decide it just isn’t worthwhile. I’m somewhat claustrophobic, and a mask makes me feel like I am smothering. I cannot believe breathing one’s own exhaled breath over and over would be very healthy over an extended period of time.

[mikegideon]

1 hour ago, GlockSpock said:

That's not science. What if every single one of those people touched a dirty doorknob then licked their fingers while eating a cheeseburger? Or maybe they stood close to someone who coughed in their eyeball because they were sick and not wearing a mask?

I bet you could find evidence of people dying while wearing a bullet-proof vest. Does that mean they are ineffective and shouldn't be worn?

Get the vaccine and you most likely won't die. Vaccine availability is free and unlimited. THAT's science. 

Next problem.

[Omega]

6 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I agree it probably doesn’t hurt. The point I was trying to make is that there are myriad things we can do to make our lives marginally safer, but we weigh the risk/reward and decide it just isn’t worthwhile. I’m somewhat claustrophobic, and a mask makes me feel like I am smothering. I cannot believe breathing one’s own exhaled breath over and over would be very healthy over an extended period of time.

I've read some reports, done before the CCP virus, that stated that masks may actually cause more contagion due to people fiddling with them all the time.  Unless you use the disposable kind, and throw them away each time you wear one, you are just collecting possible virus molecules and no amount of hand washing is going to prevent contamination on the next time you use it.  There was a great video done of a teacher passing an invisible powder around to just about all the kids without actually touching many kids in just a few minutes time.

[Moped]

1 hour ago, btq96r said:

If we're getting a <0.01% chance of something become the driver of headlines, we're just not going to make it as a society. 

You know, when you look at it like that, then why are we concerned with the death rate?  It's about that too...

[btq96r]

1 hour ago, Moped said:

You know, when you look at it like that, then why are we concerned with the death rate?  It's about that too...

The death rate is what the media gets to make sensational stories about.  I don't want anyone to die, but fell the death rate from COVID as it is today isn't anything society can't handle.  That's a broad statement as crass as it sounds; I know each death is a tragedy for the family and friends, so I don't want to belittle that. 

My worry since March of last year was the contagion of this and how stretched out the entire economy is with regards to what we deem essential services. 

Staffing in organizations has been tweaked for efficiency and cost savings with the minimal number of people possible, not flexibility by having folks ready to pick up more work, or take over from others.  Even if you're 99.99% likely to recover from COVID over time, that doesn't mitigate the risk of your being taken out of the workforce for however long it takes for that recovery to happen, or even if you're asymptomatic, to not be contagious anymore.  White collar work from a computer at home can be done in many cases, but we all know society is truly kept running at the first two stages of Maslow's hierarchy of needs by folks who go into work and make things happen, not guys like me who spend most of their day in email and excel spreadsheets.

Like other examples I've probably given across the prior 156 pages here...how many nurses and doctors can a hospital lose before they can't see patients...clerks at the grocery store before they can't keep shelves stocked...truckers to deliver products to the aforementioned hospitals and grocery stores before supplies run out.  The answer to that question is not very many.  Our economy and government services are not ready to absorb casualties like a military unit can still function at some level.  Every measure for COVID has been to keep this thing spread out enough so it doesn't overwhelm our systems.  I hope they hold, because we're still stress testing it all.

[Omega]

8 minutes ago, btq96r said:

The death rate is what the media gets to make sensational stories about.  I don't want anyone to die, but fell the death rate from COVID as it is today isn't anything society can't handle.  That's a broad statement as crass as it sounds; I know each death is a tragedy for the family and friends, so I don't want to belittle that. 

My worry since March of last year was the contagion of this and how stretched out the entire economy is with regards to what we deem essential services. 

Staffing in organizations has been tweaked for efficiency and cost savings with the minimal number of people possible, not flexibility by having folks ready to pick up more work, or take over from others.  Even if you're 99.99% likely to recover from COVID over time, that doesn't mitigate the risk of your being taken out of the workforce for however long it takes for that recovery to happen, or even if you're asymptomatic, to not be contagious anymore.  White collar work from a computer at home can be done in many cases, but we all know society is truly kept running at the first two stages of Maslow's hierarchy of needs by folks who go into work and make things happen, not guys like me who spend most of their day in email and excel spreadsheets.

Like other examples I've probably given across the prior 156 pages here...how many nurses and doctors can a hospital lose before they can't see patients...clerks at the grocery store before they can't keep shelves stocked...truckers to deliver products to the aforementioned hospitals and grocery stores before supplies run out.  The answer to that question is not very many.  Our economy and government services are not ready to absorb casualties like a military unit can still function at some level.  Every measure for COVID has been to keep this thing spread out enough so it doesn't overwhelm our systems.  I hope they hold, because we're still stress testing it all.

And yet, they have shut down many businesses, forced others to halve their patronage, and forced quarantines for people that have ultimately come up negative in tests.  I feel that something is very wrong in the reported numbers, and may, or may not be proven right when total TN deaths come out.  We make a giant deal out of a very small percentile when it benefits the talking points, but ignore them when it counters them.  Just doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy about ANY official info anymore.

[No_0ne]

10 hours ago, RED333 said:

One example: Viagra was studied in 3000 participants

That's still a lot of boners ...

[Daniel]

8 hours ago, mikegideon said:

I know people that caught covid right through those BS masks. I have no faith in them.

 The mask is to protect us from YOU not you from US.

[Daniel]

7 hours ago, xsubsailor said:

Why do people keep up with this russian propaganda?  

[Daniel]

7 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I agree it probably doesn’t hurt. The point I was trying to make is that there are myriad things we can do to make our lives marginally safer, but we weigh the risk/reward and decide it just isn’t worthwhile. I’m somewhat claustrophobic, and a mask makes me feel like I am smothering. I cannot believe breathing one’s own exhaled breath over and over would be very healthy over an extended period of time.

Surgeons do it every day.  People who work on paint lines do too.  I have been wearing a mask daily for months.

[gregintenn]

14 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Surgeons do it every day.  People who work on paint lines do too.  I have been wearing a mask daily for months.

They all have a valid reason to do so. I still don’t think it would be a healthy as breathing fresh air.

[Quavodus]

13 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

They all have a valid reason to do so. I still don’t think it would be a healthy as breathing fresh air.

I have to wear one every day at work. 19 days in a row. SUCKS!

[mikegideon]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 The mask is to protect us from YOU not you from US.

Sorry dude. Get the shot. How can I hurt you?

Edited August 27, 2021 by mikegideon

[gregintenn]

19 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

Sorry dude. Get the shot. How can I hurt you?

You just don’t understand.