SARS-2-CoV (COVID-19)

[gregintenn]

7 hours ago, Swamp ash said:

What could go wrong with a for-profit medical system that values money over lives?

Serious question. Do you donate all of your talent and labor, or do you expect to profit from some of it?

[Swamp ash]

4 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Serious question. Do you donate all of your talent and labor, or do you expect to profit from some of it?

Great question but there is a vast difference between being compensated versus maximizing health care profit.

I

 

[gregintenn]

26 minutes ago, Swamp ash said:

Great question but there is a vast difference between being compensated versus maximizing health care profit.

I

 

Please expound.

[Raoul]

6 hours ago, Daniel said:

Lol guess I’m useless. 

I truly hope that's not the case..

[Quavodus]

9 hours ago, Swamp ash said:

What could go wrong with a for-profit medical system that values money over lives?

What could go wrong indeed? Scary sounding. They make lots more money when they can't actually cure you. I have nothing at all against people that work in medical jobs. 

[Swamp ash]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

Please expound.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/sacklers-received-12-billion-to-13-billion-in-profits-from-oxycontin-maker-purdue-pharma-11570221797

Great example of maximizing profit over public health. Carry on.

[gregintenn]

35 minutes ago, Quavodus said:

What could go wrong indeed? Scary sounding. They make lots more money when they can't actually cure you. I have nothing at all against people that work in medical jobs. 

 

26 minutes ago, Swamp ash said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/sacklers-received-12-billion-to-13-billion-in-profits-from-oxycontin-maker-purdue-pharma-11570221797

Great example of maximizing profit over public health. Carry on.

You both make valid points. Thanks

[TGO David]

1 hour ago, Swamp ash said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/sacklers-received-12-billion-to-13-billion-in-profits-from-oxycontin-maker-purdue-pharma-11570221797

Great example of maximizing profit over public health. Carry on.

I have as much of a problem with people who criticize pharmaceutical companies for paying their executives and top scientists well as I do people who criticize captains of industry who get compensated well too.  People take big risks for the chance of big reward.  People invest huge amounts of talent, knowledge and effort into work that might generate big reward.

Practically all of the significant medical advancements that we have seen in the past century and which greatly improved the quality of life or survivability of humans in previously dire scenarios came as a result of "Big Medical" (not just pharmaceutical companies) who profited greatly from it.

I see nothing wrong with this.

Yes, we need some healthcare reform in our country but I would really suggest we start with the health insurance companies.  You're going to find that most of the greed you're searching for in healthcare resides there and the ripple effect causes all other prices to rise.

 

[btq96r]

One thing COVID did was shine a light at how medical care is developed and delivered in this country...and I'm afraid we were found wanting.

I could type up a whole soliloquy about how medical research is different than the delivery of care; how the hospitals needing to run at an income level to cover expenses isn't good enough, they need to return value to shareholders in many cases; and how insurance companies are a leach that keep the doctors and patients locked in some form of bureaucratic combat with each other, and with them.  All these things keep better care than we could have from getting to patients.

I often see folks say the US has "the best care in the world".  We may have the best doctors, and the best procedure skills...but let's not pretend access isn't severely lacking for some.  As as much as folks hate government intervention in healthcare, I'm convinced the entire industry would collapse in on itself if Medicare wasn't around, to say nothing of how undignified things would get for the elderly who can't afford it.

I think every aspect of this industry had a very ugly 2:55am moment in the club (when the lights come on and you see just how dreary it really is) when push came to shove because of COVID.  I got a first hand look at this in my job supporting a provider group in the thick of it.  Boy oh boy was it an education, and a worry for the future.

[RED333]

49 minutes ago, btq96r said:

how insurance companies are a leach that keep the doctors and patients locked in some form of bureaucratic combat with each other, and with them.

This is the issue that has to change. There are more than one or two things we need to take back, making our own health care dissensions and being self governed are just a start.

[Darrell]

2 hours ago, RED333 said:

how insurance companies are a leach that keep the doctors and patients locked in some form of bureaucratic combat with each other, and with them.

Of course it's more complicated that that. Isn't everything more complicated than it seems on the surface? Have you ever noticed your insurance statements that show the doctor charged $x and the insurance company paid 80% of $x ? I asked a surgeon about that one day, wondering if he simply wrote-off the difference. It turns out that doctors charge according to how much the highest-paying insurance will compensate them.  So if Joe Executive has a super whampodyne insurance plan that will pay $100 for an aspirin, then that's what the doctor will charge. My pedestrian insurance will only pay $50 for that same aspirin, but when the doctor agreed to be a preferred-provide he agreed to take the $50.  The upper limits of what a medical professional charges is dictated by the upper-limits of what the best insurance companies will pay. 

[RED333]

2 minutes ago, Darrell said:

Of course it's more complicated that that

Not really, ask what the cash price for a procedure costs.

[monkeylizard]

11 hours ago, TGO David said:

Yes, we need some healthcare reform in our country but I would really suggest we start with the health insurance companies.  You're going to find that most of the greed you're searching for in healthcare resides there and the ripple effect causes all other prices to rise.

 

Add tort reform right behind them on that list. It seems like you can't go see a doctor without him/her ordering expensive CT, MRI, and blood tests to be sure they didn't misdiagnose fingernail cancer as a simple hangnail and get sued for malpractice.

[E4 No More]

28 minutes ago, monkeylizard said:

Add tort reform right behind them on that list. It seems like you can't go see a doctor without him/her ordering expensive CT, MRI, and blood tests to be sure they didn't misdiagnose fingernail cancer as a simple hangnail and get sued for malpractice.

So you think a doctor shouldn't be sued for malpractice if he/she screws you up?

 

PS: We already have an incredibly short statute of limitations for medical malpractice suits of just 1 year. Many people don't even know that they were screwed up by the doctor until after 1 year.

Edited August 18, 2021 by E4 No More

[E4 No More]

2 hours ago, Darrell said:

Of course it's more complicated that that. Isn't everything more complicated than it seems on the surface? Have you ever noticed your insurance statements that show the doctor charged $x and the insurance company paid 80% of $x ? I asked a surgeon about that one day, wondering if he simply wrote-off the difference. It turns out that doctors charge according to how much the highest-paying insurance will compensate them.  So if Joe Executive has a super whampodyne insurance plan that will pay $100 for an aspirin, then that's what the doctor will charge. My pedestrian insurance will only pay $50 for that same aspirin, but when the doctor agreed to be a preferred-provide he agreed to take the $50.  The upper limits of what a medical professional charges is dictated by the upper-limits of what the best insurance companies will pay. 

Actually, medical fees are based off of "Usual and Customary" rates of the area that the doctor is in. A couple of decades ago, Aetna Insurance decided that doctors in Williamson County should NOT be paid as much as doctors in Davidson County even though it's a contiguous metro area of Davidson County. They were put on the U & C of Maury County so that they could pay the doctors less and increase profit. This caused most of the doctors in Williamson County to drop Aetna altogether. Having dealt with many insurance companies while I practiced, I have come to the conclusion that health insurance companies are the main cause of skyrocketing premiums and costs of procedures.

Edited August 18, 2021 by E4 No More

[monkeylizard]

3 hours ago, E4 No More said:

So you think a doctor shouldn't be sued for malpractice if he/she screws you up?

 

PS: We already have an incredibly short statute of limitations for medical malpractice suits of just 1 year. Many people don't even know that they were screwed up by the doctor until after 1 year.

What part of "tort reform" sounded like "tort elimination"?

[E4 No More]

1 hour ago, monkeylizard said:

What part of "tort reform" sounded like "tort elimination"?

What kind of "reform" do you speak of then? Tennessee is already one of the most doctor-friendly states there is as far as civil cases go. That is the words of a personal injury lawyer who specializes in medical malpractice suits.

[Grayfox54]

My big gripe is the cost of prescription drugs. When you make a pill for $.05 and sell it for $10.00, that's just plain wrong.  Yeah, I know all about the cost of research, but many of these medicines have been in common use for many years. They paid for themselves decades ago. So why are they still so expensive? 

After my little event back in 2019, my Cardiologist put me on Xarelto just as a precaution. Even with good insurance, this is expensive stuff. There is no generic either. Then two things happened. 1. I fell into the medicare "Donut hole". Basically, that means that they had a limit on how much they would spend on this stuff and I hit it. Rather quickly I might add. 2. Due to the high cost of Xarelto, my insurance just decided to drop it all together. The monthly cost of this one pill jumped to $280 for 30 pills.  Lucky for me, I had a long talk with my Doctor and he decided I didn't really need it after all. 

My oldest son is diabetic. He has a good job and makes good money. Yet he struggles due to the high cost of insulin. Dammit! The government gives free meds and needles to junkies. Why the Hell do legitimately sick, but productive citizens have to suffer? The cost of insulin seriously needs some government control. But big pharma OWNS Congress, so don't expect any change. The cost of insulin amounts to a huge racket!  

 

[Garufa]

21 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

My big gripe is the cost of prescription drugs. When you make a pill for $.05 and sell it for $10.00, that's just plain wrong.  Yeah, I know all about the cost of research, but many of these medicines have been in common use for many years. They paid for themselves decades ago. So why are they still so expensive? 

After my little event back in 2019, my Cardiologist put me on Xarelto just as a precaution. Even with good insurance, this is expensive stuff. There is no generic either. Then two things happened. 1. I fell into the medicare "Donut hole". Basically, that means that they had a limit on how much they would spend on this stuff and I hit it. Rather quickly I might add. 2. Due to the high cost of Xarelto, my insurance just decided to drop it all together. The monthly cost of this one pill jumped to $280 for 30 pills.  Lucky for me, I had a long talk with my Doctor and he decided I didn't really need it after all. 

My oldest son is diabetic. He has a good job and makes good money. Yet he struggles due to the high cost of insulin. Dammit! The government gives free meds and needles to junkies. Why the Hell do legitimately sick, but productive citizens have to suffer? The cost of insulin seriously needs some government control. But big pharma OWNS Congress, so don't expect any change. The cost of insulin amounts to a huge racket!  

 

Many people who brag on “the world’s best healthcare system simply have not been subject to the realities of how it works.

[Chucktshoes]

2 minutes ago, Garufa said:

Many people who brag on “the world’s best healthcare system simply have not been subject to the realities of how it works.

I’ve mentioned it before I think, but one of the big factors in me folding my business up and deciding to become somebody else’s employee is insurance. I haven’t had health insurance in 5 years. It was too expensive. For me to provide health insurance for my family last year would have been nearly 30k in premiums and deductibles before the insurance company would have started kicking in a dime. It was too much. 
 

 

[Grayfox54]

I agree that we do have the best health care. The best doctors, nurses and technicians in the world. The problem is the cost of this care. That cost is controlled by huge corporations that knowingly bloat these costs for huge profits. They don't give a damn about the patients, only maximum and bloated profits.  

[Quavodus]

The U.S. is number 4, behind Switzerland, Germany, and Netherlands. www.freopp.org/united-states-health-system    A little sad really.  Several years ago, it was way worse than that.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Quavodus

[Garufa]

5 minutes ago, Quavodus said:

The U.S. is number 4, behind Switzerland, Germany, and Netherlands. www.freopp.org/united-states-health-system    A little sad really.  Several years ago, it was way worse than that.

Not surprising.  Those are some of the most educated countries there are.

[Garufa]

Shelby County mask mandate goes into effect Friday.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Garufa

[Chucktshoes]

7 minutes ago, Garufa said:

Shelby County mask mandate goes into effect Friday.

Does this mean there’s still a chance for me to get a mask citation?