SARS-2-CoV (COVID-19)

[E4 No More]

1 hour ago, mikegideon said:

I don't remember the shingles vaccine giving me any trouble. 

Yeah, my wife got the one and done vaccination and had no problems. I normally have nothing more than a sore arm after vaccinations, but not this time.

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, Snaveba said:

Because the unvaccinated population can keep the virus in circulation. 
 

This has recently been a problem with anti-vaxxers and measles outbreaks. It has also been happening with polio in other countries. 
 

If enough of the population does not get vaccinated for a particular virus, then it can hang around and pose a threat to people who can’t have the vaccine (like the very young). 
 

 

The very young don’t get sick from it. Again, if you can’t  contract it, I don’t see the concern.

[gregintenn]

I’m still amazed that there were virtually no flu cases last winter.

[MacGyver]

9 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

Yeah, my wife got the one and done vaccination and had no problems. I normally have nothing more than a sore arm after vaccinations, but not this time.

For what it's worth, I work with someone who didn't worry about getting the shingles vaccine - and then came down with shingles.

She described it as the worst choice she's ever made. She was out of work for almost a month - and still isn't back to 100%.

You definitely made the right choice.

[MacGyver]

41 minutes ago, xtriggerman said:

 First of all, I think you have Universal Health care confused with medicare. VERY different plans.  As for Repubs/Conservatives supporting the passage of it? This article would suggest otherwise.

A History of the Fight for Universal Healthcare and the Cry of Socialism | History News Network

You can read Nixon in his own words to Congress:

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/special-message-the-congress-proposing-national-health-strategy

If it walks like universal healthcare and quacks like universal healthcare - it's universal healthcare.

This would have been a bigger overhaul than even the ACA was under Obama 35 years late.

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

For what it's worth, I work with someone who didn't worry about getting the shingles vaccine - and then came down with shingles.

She described it as the worst choice she's ever made. She was out of work for almost a month - and still isn't back to 100%.

You definitely made the right choice.

I've had them and would heartily recommend the vaccine.

[E4 No More]

2 hours ago, MacGyver said:

For what it's worth, I work with someone who didn't worry about getting the shingles vaccine - and then came down with shingles.

She described it as the worst choice she's ever made. She was out of work for almost a month - and still isn't back to 100%.

You definitely made the right choice.

Yeah, we have good friends and my MIL that got shingles. They preached to us about the vaccine.

[xtriggerman]

I had face shingles back in 05 and was hospitalized for 2 days on morphine IV.  Despite that, "if" the shingles vaccine uses the most common adjuvant that is a manufactured aluminum particle that has been proven recently by Harvard University to blow threw the blood brain barrier like eggs threw a hen, I'll pass on that Vaccine also. Pharma was adamant that the new aluminum was not being retained in brain cells but Harvard proved them wrong. Pictures of the particle shows it has a very tenacious surface like a virus its self. this fabricated surface aids in "sticking" around so boosters are less needed.  My take on this is these adjuvants may in fact have something to do with the high rate of neurological diseases such as dementia and Alzheimers. I hope I'm wrong on that but I'm not about to gamble on it. I take care of my mother that has Dementia. My wife's mom has Dimentia also at 89 yo.  An awful lot the sheeple are not being told.  You know the Covid vaccine is not actually approved for use. Its only threw the emergency act that it can be given at this point. The reason you don't hear anything about the treatments that have been proven effective against Covid is the FDA legally held back for approving a vaccine if there is a proven viable treatment that kills the disease. Now you put that to dollars if you have the cents and bingo..... a rich man!

[Omega]

I got the Shingrix series, which doesn't use aluminum as the adjuvant.  My doctor suggested I get it, and after doing a little research and seeing what my mom went through I figured why not. 

[E4 No More]

1 hour ago, xtriggerman said:

I had face shingles back in 05

I can't even imagine how that felt.

[xtriggerman]

On 5/20/2021 at 3:05 PM, E4 No More said:

I can't even imagine how that felt.

Its like this..... The sores grow inside your molar gums near the roots so on one side of the face the top & bottom molars are feeling like they are in full blown absess. Then in the ear canal, there are sores or a sore that is pressing hard on the ear drum. Add to that, that side of the face has multiple sores erupting inside the skin that feel like you have burning gasoline from the nose to your ear. I ate numerous Tylenol #3's and they did nothing. I walked around all night untill the wife woke up at 7 and then told here I needed an ER visit.  If pain killer on the level of Morphine did not exist. I had figured a single 45 round to the heart out in the yard would fix the problem leaving the 645 in locked open safe condition.  I'm about 200 lbs and they started me out at 20mg Morphine every 20 minutes and gradually widened the time between IV line injection. I still have numb skin in patches from the corner of my mouth to my ear.  Iv been told chest shingles is not as bad.  I would tend to believe that.  I'v read that if you have had face shingles, you have a higher percentage of getting a stroke. If my chances with that is like winning the lottery, I think I'll be fine there. I'm convinced it came about from from stress at work from mandatory 16 hour shifts that were hitting almost every day consecutively for a number of weeks.  Short staff in a state prison really sucks!

Edited May 22, 2021 by xtriggerman

[Garufa]

Sounds like vaccines are good.

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, Garufa said:

Sounds like vaccines are good.

Especially the ones that are engineered and tested correctly.

[Omega]

9 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Especially the ones that are engineered and tested correctly.

And not made mandatory by coercion and intimidation.

[MacGyver]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

Especially the ones that are engineered and tested correctly.

Would you believe me if I told you the speed in developing these vaccines was due to cutting bureaucratic red tape and removing the funding delays that typically slow things down? That’s how we got it from an average of 12 years down to 11 months.

I’m not a public health person - but I am a scientist - and I can say confidently that there’s not been a vaccine developed since they started blowing dried pustules from cows into open lacerations on people that has been done in a more open and public manner.

These are literally the most advanced vaccines that have ever been made.

And with the success of the mRNA technology that Moderna and Pfizer have brought to market - if you pay attention over the next ten years you’re going to see advancements against diseases that have plagued humanity for hundreds of years.  Moderna has already gotten good phase I results from a malaria vaccine.  That has the potential to change the world for the better.

Now to testing, I get the hesitancy over the EUA. It was a trade off to combat a disease that went from zero to a top 3 cause of death in a year. Is there risk there? Yes.  But it’s a measured (and closely monitored) risk with limit stops in place.  You saw the J&J vaccine get paused to study the risk of certain blood clots.  That’s the system working as designed.

The process to full FDA approval can’t be shortcut.  There is data required that has path dependencies that are time based.  We need six to nine months to collect those samples.  On the plus side, we’ve got a huge pool to draw from - so that path should be shorter rather than longer.

I know there are talking heads who are saying these were rushed, not designed well, and not tested.  Of course there was a rush - but there is a robust testing process that is working.  You can see evidence of that by the vaccine candidates that didn’t move forward. 
 

[ReeferMac]

I appreciate the information and sharing your opinion @MacGyver.  Education and training such as yours is much needed in the public debate surrounding this issue.

I am not a trusting-by-nature type person, polar opposite in fact.

There are several issues surrounding these medications (gene therapy, its NOT a vaccine) that I take issue with, the simplest being the blatant coersion. It ties in with my mental wiring of not trusting people. I _really_ don't trust people who try shoving something down my throat. When someone deliberately mis-uses language (its NOT a vaccine) to foster a sense of comfort, that right there is an Orwellian red flag use of Newspeak in my book (otherwise known as propaganda).

"Mostly peaceful riots"

That stuff gets my radar active. Kinda like when someone looks up and to the right when you ask them a simple question - you know they're about to lie to you? Things like that set off triggers that predispose my attitude towards something/one. If I catch you doing that (looking up/right), everything you say is immediately suspect. Ditto any use of Newspeak - it tells me you're either an idiot who doesn't understand English, or you are trying to manipulate me with language. Either one creates a very short conversation.

Stir in all the other factors surrounding Covid, and you have a giant stew of stay-the-####-away-from-me.

I understand the public health implications of a percentage of the population being unvaccinated, truly. All of that blather about doing your part falls on deaf ears here, as ones opinion of the severity of this disease outbreak predicates the need for vaccination. If one were to be of the opinion this is 'a bad flu', or some such shade of gray thats short of 'global depopulation event', than the need for mass vaccination doesn't even exist. In that context, suggesting I HAVE to get it throws another red flag for me. (I'm not suggesting @MacGyver is trying to tell me I have to get the jab, merely pointing to the current media message).

This is why when the world + dog says "oh won't you think of the children!" I find myself scratching my head and asking why, and who benefits? Useful life skill right there folks....

And once you start down THAT rabbit hole, well, lets just say that its the entire foundation surrounding the current situation I'm just not comfortable with. The whole topic has taken on so much more than a medical debate about thresholds and treatment protocols. 

I wish that weren't the case, but the world we live in isn't black and white. Had the issue not taken on a political dimension, had the media and fedgov not viciously attacked and tried banning anything not following WHO orthodoxy, had MD's and scientists like yourself not been fired/cancelled/blacklisted/banned for simply suggesting alternative therapys to the jab, I might play along in a few years after more testing and data analysis can take place. On that we most certainly agree: we are about to get a very large pool of data to work with. 

I do hope my fears are unfounded. If I am wrong, that would be great! If I'm right however... 

I'll ask a rhetorical question, its a simple test to ask yourself, anyone can do it, but as a scientist (I don't know what your specific field is, but its irrelevant assuming you're not at retirement age or independently wealthy): would you publish a research paper you did on the effectiveness of Hydroxycholoroquine, Ivermectin, and Vitamin D therapies against Covid infections today?

 

Guess how I know you're over the target?

[gregintenn]

7 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Would you believe me if I told you the speed in developing these vaccines was due to cutting bureaucratic red tape and removing the funding delays that typically slow things down? That’s how we got it from an average of 12 years down to 11 months.

I’m not a public health person - but I am a scientist - and I can say confidently that there’s not been a vaccine developed since they started blowing dried pustules from cows into open lacerations on people that has been done in a more open and public manner.

These are literally the most advanced vaccines that have ever been made.

And with the success of the mRNA technology that Moderna and Pfizer have brought to market - if you pay attention over the next ten years you’re going to see advancements against diseases that have plagued humanity for hundreds of years.  Moderna has already gotten good phase I results from a malaria vaccine.  That has the potential to change the world for the better.

Now to testing, I get the hesitancy over the EUA. It was a trade off to combat a disease that went from zero to a top 3 cause of death in a year. Is there risk there? Yes.  But it’s a measured (and closely monitored) risk with limit stops in place.  You saw the J&J vaccine get paused to study the risk of certain blood clots.  That’s the system working as designed.

The process to full FDA approval can’t be shortcut.  There is data required that has path dependencies that are time based.  We need six to nine months to collect those samples.  On the plus side, we’ve got a huge pool to draw from - so that path should be shorter rather than longer.

I know there are talking heads who are saying these were rushed, not designed well, and not tested.  Of course there was a rush - but there is a robust testing process that is working.  You can see evidence of that by the vaccine candidates that didn’t move forward. 
 

I believe that you believe this. My doubt is that it is actually factual.

Just as Al Gore stood to make billions off his carbon bank scam, you’d be hard pressed to convince me that political folks like Faucci aren’t positioned to profit from this vaccine.

Further, you’d find it really difficult to convince me that it was as big an issue as the government and media made it out to be.

If the medical community can solve this problem in a year, I don’t understand why we still have cancer and the common cold, other than the fact treatment is more profitable than a cure or prevention.

If I’ve learned one thing in this life, it is that when there’s a considerable sum of money involved, somebody’s getting shafted.

I’m glad to see that everyone isn’t as cynical as me. 

[RED333]

3 hours ago, ReeferMac said:

Hydroxycholoroquine, Ivermectin, and Vitamin D therapies

I have asked myself where are these today and why are they not being used, I can not find the answer, other than money!

 

3 hours ago, gregintenn said:

If the medical community can solve this problem in a year, I don’t understand why we still have cancer and the common cold, other than the fact treatment is more profitable than a cure or prevention.

I have often thought of this, I truly believe one day man will come around to where money just aint what "IT" is about!

[btq96r]

4 hours ago, gregintenn said:

If the medical community can solve this problem in a year, I don’t understand why we still have cancer and the common cold, other than the fact treatment is more profitable than a cure or prevention.

Cancer and the common cold don't shut down commerce, or overwhelm the medical system like unchecked COVID threatened to do.   The economic motivator was to get this virus to controllable levels where life could get back to normal so businesses could get back to it without restrictions, and tax coffers can start to get their cut as well. 

[ReeferMac]

2 hours ago, RED333 said:

I have asked myself where are these today and why are they not being used, I can not find the answer, other than money!

More importantly, ask why are you not allowed to talk about it? Why are YouTube videos and articles being memory-holed? Why are Dr's and scientists blackballed when trying to get the word out?

One side shuts down the debate by saying "the science is settled!"

Again with the manipulation of language...

The very fact that one side wishes to debate, would indicate the science is in fact not settled. Rather if one is interested in 'science', they should welcome rigorous debate and probing questions. True science is never satisfied, constantly probing further, testing and re-testing hypothesis'. We all KNEW the Earth was flat at one time, and the sun and stars orbited our home. The science was settled.

 

[GlockSpock]

24 minutes ago, ReeferMac said:

More importantly, ask why are you not allowed to talk about it? Why are YouTube videos and articles being memory-holed? Why are Dr's and scientists blackballed when trying to get the word out?

One side shuts down the debate by saying "the science is settled!"

Again with the manipulation of language...

The very fact that one side wishes to debate, would indicate the science is in fact not settled. Rather if one is interested in 'science', they should welcome rigorous debate and probing questions. True science is never satisfied, constantly probing further, testing and re-testing hypothesis'. We all KNEW the Earth was flat at one time, and the sun and stars orbited our home. The science was settled.

 

I’m not sure this is a good time to use flat-earth in this argument. 

[Darrell]

2 hours ago, btq96r said:

Cancer and the common cold don't shut down commerce,

On the contrary, they're billion dollar business.  I just read that the COVID pandemic has created "x" (too lazy to look it up right now) new billionaires in the pharmaceutical industry. 

I got the vaccine, just as I get the flu vaccine every year and most everything else that my doctor says is sensible. But I see why some people don't want it.

And as an aside, I see that CDC is now recognizing the huge difference between "died of COVID" and "died with COVID". An awful lot of those "COVID" fatalities were going to be dead soon anyway. I don't mean to minimize those deaths, but I do mean to maximize the concern I have over the propaganda associated with this outbreak.  I'm with ReeferMac in my concern when authority starts using ambiguous, rather than straight-forward, language.

[btq96r]

19 minutes ago, Darrell said:

On the contrary, they're billion dollar business.  I just read that the COVID pandemic has created "x" (too lazy to look it up right now) new billionaires in the pharmaceutical industry. 

I understand that some folks are making money off of COVID.  Some directly, like the big pharma...others indirectly like the insurance companies who had a lot less claims to pay out in 2020, and those who benefited when work from home went big (Amazon, Zoom, Microsoft).  On the inverse, a lot of companies took it on the chin like the airlines, hotels, food service industry...so it balances out somewhat.  I readily admit government stimulus tipped some scales here.

What I was trying to say is, as a society, we've been able to understand and keep diseases at a manageable level where they are aren't a threat to everyday interaction writ large.  COVID shut everything down because we didn't know anything for sure in the beginning aside from how contagious it was, how it stayed in your system for a few weeks, and for some it kept them in a state where productivity wasn't happening. 

The common cold, while transmissible in many ways similar to COVID only takes you out for a day or two, could be mild enough where you just need a day or two at home and you're better.  Whereas COVID infections last for almost two weeks, with some varying degrees of how it hits you, and possible lingering after effects.  Cancer, hideous as it is, isn't transmissible person to person so it's a completely different medical discussion. 

[gregintenn]

12 minutes ago, btq96r said:

I understand that some folks are making money off of COVID.  Some directly, like the big pharma...others indirectly like the insurance companies who had a lot less claims to pay out in 2020, and those who benefited when work from home went big (Amazon, Zoom, Microsoft).  On the inverse, a lot of companies took it on the chin like the airlines, hotels, food service industry...so it balances out somewhat.  I readily admit government stimulus tipped some scales here.

What I was trying to say is, as a society, we've been able to understand and keep diseases at a manageable level where they are aren't a threat to everyday interaction writ large.  COVID shut everything down because we didn't know anything for sure in the beginning aside from how contagious it was, how it stayed in your system for a few weeks, and for some it kept them in a state where productivity wasn't happening. 

The common cold, while transmissible in many ways similar to COVID only takes you out for a day or two, could be mild enough where you just need a day or two at home and you're better.  Whereas COVID infections last for almost two weeks, with some varying degrees of how it hits you, and possible lingering after effects.  Cancer, hideous as it is, isn't transmissible person to person so it's a completely different medical discussion. 

My son had Covid and said a cold was worse.

[mikegideon]

4 hours ago, gregintenn said:

My son had Covid and said a cold was worse.

Some folks weren't as lucky. Unfortunately, the politics around this thing were probably more toxic than the disease.

I am not real concerned about the safety of the vaccine. And, I'm not all that scared of Covid, even though it would probably kill me. The main reason I got vaccinated was so I can use the Kat Timpf quote, "I'm vaccinated, so f#ck off".