SARS-2-CoV (COVID-19)

[ReeferMac]

Nothing to see here, move along please....

https://www.aier.org/article/who-deletes-naturally-acquired-immunity-from-its-website/

[Erik88]

37 minutes ago, ReeferMac said:

Giving up your rights, liberty, and security in exchange for the facade of effective preventative measures is exactly what our forefathers warned us about.

What liberty are you sacrificing? Many of you won't even wear a cloth mask and you keep making excuses for how masks don't even work. Maybe the next time you have surgery you can convince your surgeon to not wear any PPE because it's just a scam. 

Nearly all businesses are still open or allowed to operate right now in TN. The businesses being impacted the most are ones you probably wouldn't frequent anyways so I don't know what liberty you are being asked to give up. Regardless of how other countries may or may not be doing, the US is doing horrible. So many swore COVID would just vanish after the election yet it's only getting worse. Now I've seen those same people move the goal post and say it will vanish once Trump leaves office. 

COVID is kicking our ass. Our hospitals are at a breaking point and I'm getting really tired of people making claims about lost liberty when the reality is that we're really not being asked to do that much. Hell, half of TGO lives an eremite lifestyle so I would think that staying away from people would be an easy request. 

 

[E4 No More]

21 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

Maybe the next time you have surgery you can convince your surgeon to not wear any PPE because it's just a scam. 

There is a huge difference between walking around the grocery store and your surgeon standing over your OPEN body for a long period of time.  

[Erik88]

8 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

There is a huge difference between walking around the grocery store and your surgeon standing over your OPEN body for a long period of time.

I agree. But the logic behind why we're being asked to wear them is the same. I don't really feel like debating masks. If people don't want to wear one by now then nothing is going to change their mind. The entire world is behind mask usage so if it were really just a scam to make us fall into submission you would think it would be limited to only the USA. 

Personally, I've enjoyed wearing them when it's cold out as it keeps my face warm.  Maybe I'll wear a mask the rest of my life just to trigger some folks. 

[drewski]

Why does this conversation continue between "I'm scared, everybody allow the gov't decide what's best for me and everyone must comply" and "eff the gov't".  Should be simple.  If you are scared of the virus, stay home and protect yourself.  Order delivery or pickup instead of going into stores/restaurants.  Its not that hard, but it does suck.  Not everyone needs to do this.  Survival rate still in the 99%, right?  We don't need the authorities making mandates punishable by fines or jail for this stuff.  If you think we do, you are OK with tyrants.  

Don't be a  by demanding others live as you do.  you are in charge of your own safety. 

[DaveTN]

Prior to Covid my hair was kept short. I haven’t had a haircut since this started and it is down to my shoulders. I feel that getting a haircut with someone standing over you and putting their hands all over you face is about as personal as it gets. But I don’t think the shops should be closed and if someone wants to get a haircut; they should be able to.

I feel the same about restaurants and other business. If they want to stay open and people want to go to them; they should be able to do that. Even though I won’t do it.

What happened to personal responsibility? It’s your responsibility to stay away from places and people that may/may not make you sick.

I see too many people that have constantly spouted off about not needing/wanting the government to protect them; all of a sudden wanting the government to close businesses and destroy peoples livelihoods and jobs to protect them. What changed?

I wear a mask. Most people are getting their hackles up not because of wearing a mask; but the threats of punitive action if they don’t. Private businesses open to the public have the right to post that they won’t allow you on the premises without a mask. I see no problem with that. Why does the government need to be involved?

Luckily I’m retired and this isn’t hitting me as hard as some others. Other than the fact that my wife still works and it will probably only me a matter of time before she is exposed, which in turn will expose me.

But there was a time in my life when I was living paycheck to paycheck trying to support a family. I can’t imagine what its like for people in that situation that have had their income cutoff or greatly reduced.

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by DaveTN

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, drewski said:

Why does this conversation continue between "I'm scared, everybody allow the gov't decide what's best for me and everyone must comply" and "eff the gov't".  Should be simple.  If you are scared of the virus, stay home and protect yourself.  Order delivery or pickup instead of going into stores/restaurants.  Its not that hard, but it does suck.  Not everyone needs to do this.  Survival rate still in the 99%, right?  We don't need the authorities making mandates punishable by fines or jail for this stuff.  If you think we do, you are OK with tyrants.  

Don't be a  by demanding others live as you do.  you are in charge of your own safety. 

Yep, it's pretty simple.  You chose to go out or not.   If you want the government to force others to close their businesses to ensure your safety, you are not only naïve but a communist and tyrant.   If I'm afraid of catching something at Bob's Barber shop, guess where I don't go.   However, I don't ask my Supreme Leaders to shut Bob down and ruin his livelihood.  I just don't go there. 

The decisions here are pretty simple.  You either value freedom or oppression.   It's literally that simple.    What style of hair clippers you buy to do your haircut at home may require more thought than the former. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Guest

[Erik88]

It really isn't that simple. Healthy people are unintentionally and unknowingly spreading the virus to people that really can't afford to have it. It has nothing to do with being scared of the virus. I would think that losing a long time member that was only 65 would have had some sort of impact on folks but I thought wrong. 

That "just stay home if you're scared" argument doesn't work for everyone.  Many still need groceries and have errands to run. If you think that's an option, have you offered to help any of your elderly neighbors? 

[DaveTN]

16 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

It really isn't that simple. Healthy people are unintentionally and unknowingly spreading the virus to people that really can't afford to have it. It has nothing to do with being scared of the virus. I would think that losing a long time member that was only 65 would have had some sort of impact on folks but I thought wrong. 

That "just stay home if you're scared" argument doesn't work for everyone.  Many still need groceries and have errands to run. If you think that's an option, have you offered to help any of your elderly neighbors? 

So go get your groceries, wear a mask, gloves, use sanitizer, wash your hands and face. What's the problem?

What do you want to do?

How long do you think our economy can with stand this crisis?

What do you want to do with people that are out there not wearing their mask?

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

So go get your groceries, wear a mask, gloves, use sanitizer, wash your hands and face. What's the problem?

What do you want to do?

How long do you think our economy can with stand this crisis?

What do you want to do with people that are out there not wearing their mask?

And beyond that, how much of TN's population (95%?) is within a reasonable driving distance of a Kroger?  Kroger will bring your groceries to your car for free as long as you order $35 worth, and I presume for some fee if under $35.    Other stores have similar services as well.   As for the small % that live far away from stores with such services... might they explore neighbors, etc.?   

Again we fall back to individual's rights, individuals' responsibilities, and the ability of individuals to help each other out.   

Mandating that we destroy our country by shutting everything down achieves no good and ends hope of freedom and prosperity for the world. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Guest

[jgradyc]

5 hours ago, ReeferMac said:

...the press doesn't like to talk about Sweden and their ilk because ...

<getting on my soapbox> Guess what's really interesting about COIVD in Sweden? Sweden has been disproportionately hit hard in its immigrant populations, whereas native Swedes are 3x less likely to get COVID. Yes, culture plays a part, but one factor that is continually overlooked is that native Swedes have high vitamin D levels, whereas their immigrant populations (Africans and darker-skinned Middle Easterners) tend as a group to have low vitamin D levels. The US groups that have been hit hardest -- African Americans, seniors, the obese, diabetes -- all tend to have low vitamin D levels. As I type this, 67 FDA-approved clinical trials on vitamin D are underway... impressive for a lowly vitamin! You'd think Dr. Fauci would be mentioning it... but no...

If I could, I would line up Fauci, Birx, et al and Stooge Slap the entire group. People are dying and they could help by getting off their sanctimonious mantra of masks, social distancing and tell people to take vitamin D. Fauci, when directly asked, admitted that he takes vitamin D, but he refuses to even mention it to the public!!! <getting off soapbox... >

https://tenor.com/WW5M.gif

[jgradyc]

Sorry, multiple post

I keep trying to post the Stooge slap gif, but I don't know how. Maybe someone should Stooge slap me!!

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by jgradyc

[jgradyc]

Sorry multiple post

Edited December 24, 2020 by jgradyc
Multiple post

[E4 No More]

2 hours ago, Erik88 said:

I agree. But the logic behind why we're being asked to wear them is the same. I don't really feel like debating masks. If people don't want to wear one by now then nothing is going to change their mind. The entire world is behind mask usage so if it were really just a scam to make us fall into submission you would think it would be limited to only the USA. 

Personally, I've enjoyed wearing them when it's cold out as it keeps my face warm.  Maybe I'll wear a mask the rest of my life just to trigger some folks. 

No, it is not the same. 

The masks do not prevent you from spreading the virus; it only reduces the amount of virus spread by trapping large droplets from sneezes and coughs. A lot of viruses are emitted into the environment through the leaks around the mask. The surgical staff wear the masks to prevent large droplets from falling directly from their mouth/nose and into your open body. They scrub their hands with anti-biotic soap, wear sterile gloves, and don sterile gowns yet patients still get post-operative infections, (mostly bacterial infections). 

The masks do not prevent you from contracting the virus because your eyes are still exposed, The virus can blow onto your eye to be flushed into your lacrimal ducts which drain into your sinuses where it can penetrate a weakness in the mucosa to enter your cell wall. Also, most viruses enter your body through vectors - touching a contaminated surface and then rubbing your eyes or picking your nose. So the virus can escape from the mask, land on a surface, you touch the surface, and then introduce the virus into your body. This is why I rely on hand-sanitizer when I am in public and pay particular attention to what I touch and how I touch it. I don't use my fingertips to open doors, I use either my knuckle or my little fingertip to key-in my PIN for debit card use. Even though I'm mindful, I immediately sanitize my hands paying particular attention to my fingertips. I am also someone who is high risk and will take the vaccine just as soon as the VA makes it available to me.

 

[Danger Rane]

4 hours ago, Erik88 said:

I agree. But the logic behind why we're being asked to wear them is the same. I don't really feel like debating masks. If people don't want to wear one by now then nothing is going to change their mind. The entire world is behind mask usage so if it were really just a scam to make us fall into submission you would think it would be limited to only the USA. 

Personally, I've enjoyed wearing them when it's cold out as it keeps my face warm.  Maybe I'll wear a mask the rest of my life just to trigger some folks. 

Just speaking from what I’ve observed where I live, more people have been wearing masks the last couple months then at any point this year.... yet the numbers continue to climb. I can’t think of the last time I was at a store and saw more than one or two people in the whole store not wearing a mask. I’m certainly not suggesting masks are the problem, I’m saying they are not the solution that has been fed to so many to give them some semblance of hope, by feeling like they are “doing something”. I learned many years ago in the military that if the “leadership” at any level doesn’t know the answer to a problem, they pull some BS out of their ass to make it look like they are “doing something”. What we have been seeing at our state level, and many of the larger cities across the country is exactly that same mentality.

[GlockSpock]

5 hours ago, BlessTheUSA said:

Yep, it's pretty simple.  You chose to go out or not.   If you want the government to force others to close their businesses to ensure your safety, you are not only naïve but a communist and tyrant.   If I'm afraid of catching something at Bob's Barber shop, guess where I don't go.   However, I don't ask my Supreme Leaders to shut Bob down and ruin his livelihood.  I just don't go there. 

The decisions here are pretty simple.  You either value freedom or oppression.   It's literally that simple.    What style of hair clippers you buy to do your haircut at home may require more thought than the former. 

Bob makes burgers.

[Links2k]

I choose to wear a mask, and I wish others would, but I’m not going to get bent out of shape about those who choose not to wear a mask.  We live in a red state, and there has been nothing nor will there be any statewide mandates that trample on everyone’s freedoms. Tennessee politicians are hot garbage, but they know their constituents. They will never go too far. 
 

It puzzles me how people in the south can always find a crisis or potential boogeyman. Nothing that people repeatedly worry about ever happens, especially in Tennessee. We should be some of the most carefree people in the world. We simply have to do whatever it takes to get back to normal. For some it seems that being slightly inconvenienced is a larger problem than COVID-19. 
 

If a worldwide pandemic can’t get everyone on the same page, nothing will. 

Edited December 25, 2020 by Links2k

[TGO David]

On 12/20/2020 at 11:15 AM, Erik88 said:

I have a friend of mine that has done everything you shouldn't do this year. Parties, bar hopping, huge group gatherings, more parties. Through all of that she never caught COVID. It wasn't until a family gathering that she and her family got it. Her dad brought it home from work. Keep this in mind as you get together with your family for Christmas, especially if you are high risk for COVID. 

 

 

There is actually strong science behind what you described and it has a lot to do with duration of exposure, the number of infected people in very close proximity to you, airflow, ambient temperature, ambient humidity, and a slew of other factors.

Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) has put together a pretty amazing tool that allows you to explore how the factors interplay with each other to increase or decrease your risk in various settings.

https://www.mit.edu/~bazant/COVID-19/

 

[TGO David]

On 12/23/2020 at 6:40 PM, BlessTheUSA said:

It's very sad.  Makes me wonder what hospitals were doing the last 10 to 11 months, all the while predicting that at some point they'd be overrun.   Didn't China build two 1,000 bed hospitals in about 10 days each? 

(edit to add:   I realize even if the hospitals wanted to build temporary expansions, the EPA and thousand other government bodies would stand in the way.  But at the same time, I haven't heard about hospitals trying to set up temporary structures, maybe I've just missed it?)

The Internet makes it entirely possible for a person to pontificate upon matters that they know nothing about, and be taken seriously. 

I am in the industry about which you speak.  We've not sat around twiddling our thumbs for the past 10 months.  My company has turned ambulatory surgery centers into COVID treatment facilities, set up COVID testing centers in airports and rented space in cities across the country for COVID testing centers.  Only patients requiring life support are being kept in hospitals any longer than absolutely necessary.  The best course of action is to send them home to recuperate and self-isolate.

You don't build FEMA camps for that.

But, if we did build FEMA camps for it... something tells me you'd decry them as well.

[TGO David]

36 minutes ago, Links2k said:

If a worldwide pandemic can’t get everyone on the same page, nothing will. 

 

We're screwed, man.  Really we are.  People are too selfish and self-centered these days.  There is no sense of community anymore.  We live in neighborhoods surrounded by people we don't know and in many cases have never really spoken with.  We might wave at the neighbor who walks the dog, but we know nothing else about them other than "they have a dog".

Without a sense of community, there is no sense of a greater good.  Lacking that, it's every man for himself.  Lord Of The Flies becomes a way to live, not a cautionary tale.

[TGO David]

On 12/23/2020 at 8:08 PM, BlessTheUSA said:

It's a shame so many people think that instituting even more communism would be a better route. 

Now I found it.  Been searching for it in this thread, but now I found it.  I question whether you know what that word means or if you're using a straw-man argument to drag the Biden election sham into the discussion of COVID.

To be clear:

• I don't think Trump seriously mishandled COVID.
• I do think that he should have hyped less, but that's like asking rain to not be wet.
• I do think that the establishment is scared as hell of Trump and weren't going to let him have Term #2 at any cost.
• I do think we saw that play out in broad daylight.
• I do think so many people hate Trump that they don't care what crimes were committed to keep him from being re-elected.
• I do think dark times are ahead of us.
• I don't think this has any bearing on the medical treatment of COVID.

 

[TGO David]

On the subject of wearing cloth masks...

• They aren't the cure.
• They are a mitigating mechanism.
• They aren't perfect.
• Owners of private property are within their rights to require them.
• You are within your right to go somewhere else if you don't like it.
• You aren't within your right to violate their rights as property owners.

 

Oh, one last bullet point that should appeal to gun owners...

• Wearing a mask makes you the Gray Man.  You blend.  Not wearing a mask makes you stand out.  It draws attention to you.  People assume you're a dick.  They might confront you over it.  It's not worth the headache.  "When In Rome, Do As The Romans"

 

[JunkiCosmonaut]

On 12/24/2020 at 10:55 PM, TGO David said:

 

• Wearing a mask makes you the Gray Man.  You blend.  Not wearing a mask makes you stand out.  It draws attention to you.  People assume you're a dick.  They might confront you over it.  It's not worth the headache.  "When In Rome, Do As The Romans"

 

Thats the thing about masks, before all of this i had a conversation with someone about why you may want to always obfuscate your identity in public with a gator or a covering of some kind in the presence of heavy surveillance for your own reasons. You can throw on a gator and a baseball cap and almost only have your eyes showing and its perfectly normal in this social climate. 

[Daniel]

On 12/20/2020 at 1:57 PM, AuEagle said:

The filthy masks, bandanas, & various other face covering I see people wearing are akin to using paper towels to stop bullets.

They're constantly pulling at them & putting their dirty hands near their eyes. 

If one is that scared of the kung flu, one should stay home & wait till tptb give them permission to venture out.

Why is it that someone cant simply take a minimum level of precautions without being "scared?"   I am not so concerned with my own health but I am concerned for my son who has asthma, for our elderly neighbors, for my coworkers, and even the rest of my fellow citizens.   

This isnt an either or issue.  It doesnt mean you are terrified etc.  It means you have empathy for your fellow human beings and hope to prevent spreading something you may carry with no or little symptoms at all.

[Daniel]

On 12/21/2020 at 7:34 PM, MacGyver said:

It would seem the word “public” in public gathering is the word failing to carry the weight here.

Consensus is that nothing in the order would keep Dave Ramsey from having another 1000 person Christmas party in his taxpayer subsidized headquarters.

Where you find 1000 people to attend said party in this environment is beyond me. 

His payroll.