SARS-2-CoV (COVID-19)

[Darrell]

[No_0ne]

5 hours ago, Darrell said:

Me too. The booster made me every bit as unwell as the second shot did, but added a very sore arm that I didn't experience with the first two. I wonder how long until booster-2 is required.

One of my old Marine Corps buddies took the J&J vaccine and still got Covid. He had to have the infusion treatment. Fortunately he's doing fine now.

I never felt much of anything after the booster, other than the slightly sore arm you get after any shot ...

[papa61]

On 8/17/2021 at 8:25 PM, TGO David said:

I have as much of a problem with people who criticize pharmaceutical companies for paying their executives and top scientists well as I do people who criticize captains of industry who get compensated well too.  People take big risks for the chance of big reward.  People invest huge amounts of talent, knowledge and effort into work that might generate big reward.

Practically all of the significant medical advancements that we have seen in the past century and which greatly improved the quality of life or survivability of humans in previously dire scenarios came as a result of "Big Medical" (not just pharmaceutical companies) who profited greatly from it.

I see nothing wrong with this.

Yes, we need some healthcare reform in our country but I would really suggest we start with the health insurance companies.  You're going to find that most of the greed you're searching for in healthcare resides there and the ripple effect causes all other prices to rise.

 

if my insurance company didn't have doctors, nurses, and lawyers on staff trying to figure out how not to cover what I pay them to cover my doctor would have more staff to care for me and spend less time arguing on how to treat my illness.

[xtriggerman]

there was a study once that interviewed a large number of pre med students in College and when asked why they had chosen the medical field of study, 80 percent said it was for the money while the rest said it was to help people in need. That about sums up todays situation all around. A must read is "Selling Sickness" .  Its old but extremely relevant in whats going on today. Stumbled onto a number of postings about the Swedish study on Covid19 in vetro work. This link has the most quoted info from the study. Seems this varifys the same reason they ditched MRNA Protein vaccines for animals some 18 years ago. Too bad we have to go outside the cash walls of US Pharma to get any new study works.

Study Finds COVID Spike Protein Created in Vaccines ‘Hijacking’ Human Body DNA Repair and Adaptive Immune System Mechanisms - Vision Times

[xtriggerman]

The some what best rebuttle yet is this one.... Like this guy points out, There needs to more serious testing that covers his assertions.

Right off the bat, I question the biological relevance of these findings for 2 reasons:
(1) These experiments are conducted in HEK293 cells, a cell line derived from human embryonic kidney cells. This doesn't necessary disqualify the relevance of the findings, but the impact of these observations is weakened when we are discussing a respiratory pathogen with a tropism for cells types in the air ways (e.g. human alveolar epithelial cells). This may seem like a pedant criticism but it's really not - cell lines in eukaryotes matter when it comes to physiological relevance.
(2) The paper is making a big to-do about V(D)J recombination but neglect to perform any experiment using a lymphoid progenitor cell line - i.e. cell types that give rise to B-cells, which are the antibody-producing adaptive immune cells. Instead, they do this work in HEK293 cells - again, natural coronavirus infection will predominantly impact airway epithelial cells. Similarly, spike mRNA-based vaccination is localized to the muscle of the upper arm where it's expected that the tissue-derived Spike proteins will generate strong local immune response. Additionally, tissue-derived Spike proteins can be capture via the lymphatic system and delivered to lymph nodes to promote affinity maturation, the selection process by which B-cells with the highest affinity antibody to the Spike protein will proliferate and give rise to antibody-secreting plasma and memory B-cells.
The point here is that V(D)J recombination, the process by which lymphocytes enable somatic hypermutation and produce T-cell receptors (TCRs) and antibodies, occurs predominately in B-cell and T-cell progenitor cell lines - these are actual cells of the adaptive immune system, whereas HEK293 cells are essentially irrelevant. Accordingly, both infection- and vaccine- derived Spike proteins are expected to encounter lymphocytes in tissues (e.g. macrophages, dendritic cells) and secondary lymphoid organs (spleen and lymph nodes; e.g. B-cells and T-cells). Given that the physiologically relevant V(D)J recombination occurs in the context of lymphocytes, the authors entirely neglect to do anything with a lymphocyte cell line.
Additionally, something supremely important to consider here is how antigens are actually produced and presented. The adaptive immune cells are not going to generate antibodies and TCRs by learning* from the full-length Spike protein. Rather, target cells (a.k.a. altered-self, infected cells) process foreign proteins via the endogenous pathway, which is entirely cytosolic (no nucleus involved), and presents pieces of the original protein at the cell surface as targets for immune activity. In contrast, phagocytic/endocytic cells (macrophages, B-cells, dendritic cells) pick up and process foreign proteins and present them at the cell surface, too. The point here being that foreign proteins (e.g. Spike) are picked up by cells and processed into smaller fragments called antigens that the immune system targets. In this paper, the authors use a vector to overexpress Spike protein in the cytoplasm, which is quite subject to artifacts, including non-physiologically relevant events like atypical subcellular localization.
Other notable things:
The authors are sure to mention that other coronavirus proteins have been found to localize in both the cytoplasm and nucleus but never discuss how their findings differ from the reference (i.e. 19 in the paper), which found exclusively cytoplasmic localization of Spike.
Perhaps the authors view their work to be purely explorative, but their conclusion is pretty poorly supported and of questionable biological relevance. This makes sense considering that it was published in a lower impact factor journal (MDPI's Viruses) at a time when anyone with something novel on SARS-CoV-2 should be expected to get something published in a medium impact factor journal with considerably less scrutinizing peer review than would be expected during normal circumstances (i.e. not during a pandemic).

*colloquial word for simplicity - avoids need to talk about clonal selection processes in bone marrow and lymph nodes, anergy, etc.
------
If you're curious as to my scientific qualifications, my academic and research background are predominately in microbiology with focus on molecular genetics.

[Grayfox54]

II saw my Pulmonologist.  last week. He said YES, absolutely get the booster shot. I took care of that today. 

As far as news stories go, I've become numb to them. Ever since the beginning its been he said, she said and one conflicting story after another. No matter which side you're on, you can find the definitive proof from various "experts" of your particular beliefs. I just don't care any more.  I'm tired of hearing it. 

I believe my own personal doctors whom I trust. I'll take their advice. Everybody else can go screw themselves. 

[xtriggerman]

12 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

II saw my Pulmonologist.  last week. He said YES, absolutely get the booster shot. I took care of that today. 

As far as news stories go, I've become numb to them. Ever since the beginning its been he said, she said and one conflicting story after another. No matter which side you're on, you can find the definitive proof from various "experts" of your particular beliefs. I just don't care any more.  I'm tired of hearing it. 

I believe my own personal doctors whom I trust. I'll take their advice. Everybody else can go screw themselves. 

As long as we have a choice, all is good. On the other hand, if one was inclined to see just who has their finger prints on much of the medical lesson plans taught in Medical school, finding a "Good" doctor may not be that easy. Here is the example for those poor saps.

 

Some 128,000 Americans a year now die from the effects of medications prescribed to them. This number doesn’t include overdose deaths—only people who took their drugs as prescribed.[1]

Prescription drugs have become the fourth leading cause of death in the U.S. They kill more Americans than breast cancer, prostate cancer, homicide, and suicide combined.[2] [3]

[GlockSpock]

2 hours ago, xtriggerman said:

As long as we have a choice, all is good. On the other hand, if one was inclined to see just who has their finger prints on much of the medical lesson plans taught in Medical school, finding a "Good" doctor may not be that easy. Here is the example for those poor saps.

 

Some 128,000 Americans a year now die from the effects of medications prescribed to them. This number doesn’t include overdose deaths—only people who took their drugs as prescribed.[1]

Prescription drugs have become the fourth leading cause of death in the U.S. They kill more Americans than breast cancer, prostate cancer, homicide, and suicide combined.[2] [3]

Assuming that those statistics are true, and they very likely are, it's the other side of a coin. How many Americans are saved per year by the medicates prescribed to them.?

People drown in water, does that make it inherently bad? You can overdose on iron, does that mean you should avoid it completely? Peanuts will kill some people, does that mean we should eradicate them?

I'm not saying that doctor malpractice isn't real, it obviously is. It becomes worse when you have doctors that care not about lives but only money. But where would we be without?

Edited November 18, 2021 by GlockSpock

[DWARREN123]

Should not be that many folks die from prescribed drugs if the drugs companies did their job properly.

[xtriggerman]

 Many years ago, once I learned that FDA auditors that approve drugs for market are routinely hired by the very same companies that seek FDA approval for their drugs can make over $250K a year in addition to their Gov pay by being "advisors" to these Pharma companies. If there was ever a qid pro qoe.... This is a huge in your face one that no one wants to go up against. Congressmen that tried, some how couldn't hold their seats in the next election. Billions of dollars are at steak within these Gov employees decisions. And then we have this stuff....

 Big Pharma falsified studies to get approval for 81 different drugs. Yet the FDA continues to allow these drugs to be sold.[5] 

That 80% of prescription medications sold in the U.S. are now made in China and India. The vast majority of these foreign factories have never been inspected by the FDA. They have miserable track records for quality and safety. [6]

That since 2013, more than 8,000 faulty drugs have been pulled from the market. They included statin pills with glass shards in them… Blood pressure drugs contaminated with a carcinogen… An arthritis drug that gave up to 140,000 patients heart attacks… And that’s just the beginning.[7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13]

   Its an interesting world out there today. Trusting your Doctor is something of a Utopian concept to me. Too many variables to get to that without doing my own research. I'v had some lazy ass MD's who had no need of keeping up with new studies. Can't blame them tho, They are booked solid peddling meds that in some cases even give kick backs! WT.....Frick...

Edited November 19, 2021 by xtriggerman

[A.J. Holst]

32 minutes ago, xtriggerman said:

Many years ago, once I learned that FDA auditors that approve drugs for market are routinely hired by the very same companies that seek FDA approval for their drugs can make over $250K a year in addition to their Gov pay by being "advisors" to these Pharma companies.

According to the story told in Dope Sick on Netflix, Purdue Pharma and the Sacklers did this very thing. 

How accurate? It's Netflix, but my guess is some truth within the televised drama.

[GlockSpock]

If you want to watch a really good show, watch Dr. Death on Peacock. It has everyone's favorite actor Alec Baldwin in it, and I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed his character in this show.

[Omega]

6 hours ago, GlockSpock said:

Assuming that those statistics are true, and they very likely are, it's the other side of a coin. How many Americans are saved per year by the medicates prescribed to them.?

People drown in water, does that make it inherently bad? You can overdose on iron, does that mean you should avoid it completely? Peanuts will kill some people, does that mean we should eradicate them?

I'm not saying that doctor malpractice isn't real, it obviously is. It becomes worse when you have doctors that care not about lives but only money. But where would we be without?

Now imagine being told you had to be treated by a certain doctor, with that kind of track record, or lose your job

[Garufa]

Delta didn’t do the job so here comes Omicron for Christmas.  

[FUJIMO]

20 minutes ago, Garufa said:

Delta didn’t do the job so here comes Omicron for Christmas.  

Also just in time for them to change the definition of what being "vaccinated" means apparently

[Erik88]

11 minutes ago, FUJIMO said:

Also just in time for them to change the definition of what being "vaccinated" means apparently

I haven't heard about this. What changed?

[FUJIMO]

2 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I haven't heard about this. What changed?

The way I understood it Walensky and Fauci were having to now reevaluate what the definition of being vaccinated means.

This is due in part to the 1st vaccinated back in March/April which iirc started with the elderly who have not received the latest round of boosters but still identify as vaxxed. 

In regards to staying current, there are areas complaining they have elderly wanting a 3rd booster but can't get it due to supply which just puzzles me because of the amounts the current administration claims to be pumping out. Just logistics maybe.

I personally don't think they need to confuse the elderly even more as I know several that have been scared to tears since this all started

 

[Garufa]

12 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I haven't heard about this. What changed?

I assume that means “vaccinated” now means having the booster shot as well. 

[FUJIMO]

1 minute ago, Garufa said:

I assume that means “vaccinated” now means having the booster shot as well. 

Correct. I just took the long road

Edited November 27, 2021 by FUJIMO

[gregintenn]

I know the stock market didn’t like it.

[MacGyver]

A lot of very serious people I know are really paying attention to this variant being sequenced out of South Africa.

None of us are out of this until all of us are out of it. 

[Grayfox54]

I saw on the news a little while ago that the Orpheum  Theater in Memphis has canceled the live stage musical of The Lion King. It was supposed to run for a week. They got in the first show, but then cast and crew members tested positive for Covid. Not sure, but I think the whole tour is now canceled.

Lots of disappointed theater fans. Tickets for this are pretty expensive. Many didn't know the show was canceled until they showed up at the theater. 

I'm not much for live theater myself. But this was a big deal in Memphis. They've been advertising it for weeks. Its a major social event here. 

 

[Erik88]

Sounds like I picked a good time to get my booster. I got the Moderna jab yesterday along with a flu shot. I can now say I've had two different two vaccines since I got the J&J dose in April. Since the J&J was least effective that was the main reason I wanted to get a booster. So far, the only side effect is the typical sore arm. 

[gregintenn]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/26/politics/travel-restrictions-south-africa/index.html

Wasn’t this reported as racist and xenophobic when the last President did it?

[Links2k]

6 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Sounds like I picked a good time to get my booster. I got the Moderna jab yesterday along with a flu shot. I can now say I've had two different two vaccines since I got the J&J dose in April. Since the J&J was least effective that was the main reason I wanted to get a booster. So far, the only side effect is the typical sore arm. 

 I got my booster about a week ago.  I’m willing to take another if needed simply because people are nasty.