SARS-2-CoV (COVID-19)

[Worriedman]

2 hours ago, GlockSpock said:

Sue them for what exactly?

As has been stated, Tennessee is an At Will Employment State.   They can let you go,  you would have to prove wrongful discharge, and even though those suits scare businesses with just their nuisance value, they are hard to win., But, has anyone seen these restaurants closed due to lack of workers.  Quality help is very hard to find these days and bidding wars are taking place.  I answer as many calls from head hunters as I do from my subs these days.

My bunch is not a Mom and Pop, one of the largest of our type in the Southeast.  They need my relationships with the Owner Reps and Purchasing agents , we do 75% repeat business.  Projects in the triple digit $millions, I am 67 and do not give a lusty crap any more.

I have pulled more stuff and gotten by with it than these college children can even imagine.  They don't have to fire me I will quit.  They cannot cover the jobs we have now and I will not take one more than three hours from the house anymore, will not get on a commercial air liner ever again.  26 years of being their company man, well I don't have to have the aggravation anymore.  17 years ago when my wife's kidneys failed, I had a trip scheduled to Mexico to move a large process manufacturer and had done all the lead up negotiations, they said we would lose the project and would send nurses to my house to take up my slack, remember they provided the insurance...the question of if I would bleed the company colors then was answered as I left her in the hospital and my FIL did not speak to me for 6 months he was so pissed.

They sure do not want me going over to one of the clients and being THEIR watchdog.

Cut me loose, set me free!

[GlockSpock]

10 minutes ago, ReeferMac said:

I understand, and think you're playing devil's advocate here a little? I say that because I too like to probe peoples beliefs and expand the conversation.

I agree with your assessment as well that things might not go the way people want/believe they should. Courts can be a funny thing.

I think the disagreement between sides on this stuff will make for some stellar courtroom scenes, given sone good attorneys on both sides.

Ultimately there are fundamental legal issues that will determine the case. At this point I think the stuff shakes out on the side of the employee. It may take a couple appeals, and ultimately go all the way to the supreme court. My feeling is since its still an EUA, the employers will lose the mandate issue, but I could be wrong, I'm not a workplace attorney.

If nothing else, the workplace participation factor may make the legal issue moot. I can think of very few industries that can afford to lose out on a large percent of their employable options. As others have stated, if enough people opt out, legal challenges may not be needed.

Not so much that but more-so just acknowledging a lot of the precedence that has been set for a very long time. Not that it couldn't change but if it does change I do not expect it to swing in the direction of the individual/employee.

https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-vaccine-supreme-court

While many states allow for exceptions (some do not), most if not all school systems require vaccinations of some sort. Between international travel and also military service, mandatory vaccination has been a general thing for a while in various terms. Although the methodology was different (inoculation vs vaccination), Washington required it against Smallpox for his troops.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/08/29/george-washington-smallpox-inoculation-army/

[45guy]

My wife deals with the corporate attorneys all the time as the HR person for her company.  She is told be the attorneys that her company can require the vaccine.  They have not yet but I would also like to see if they are responsible for negative side effects.  The last I saw over 11k have died because of the shot. 

25 years ago I worked for the largest company in the world in the wholesale food business. I increased sales a million a year in my territory which put me far ahead of the other reps.  I was the first to get laid off.  Been self employed since then.  

My son was testing normal until he got his second set of shots as a baby, he is now 22 years old but mentally is 10.  He will require care for the rest of my life and the rest of his, try planning for that.  For that reason and others my 18 daughter has never had a shot and we did the religious exemption for school.  We are very religious by the way.  Of course it was not the shots that caused the issue with my son, it was just a coincidence.  

Needless to say no one in my house has had the 19 vaccine or are we planning on getting it.  

 

Keep in mind the 3rd leading cause of death in the US are doctors and hospitals.  

Edited September 7, 2021 by 45guy

[gregintenn]

24 minutes ago, Worriedman said:

As has been stated, Tennessee is an At Will Employment State.   They can let you go,  you would have to prove wrongful discharge, and even though those suits scare businesses with just their nuisance value, they are hard to win., But, has anyone seen these restaurants closed due to lack of workers.  Quality help is very hard to find these days and bidding wars are taking place.  I answer as many calls from head hunters as I do from my subs these days.

My bunch is not a Mom and Pop, one of the largest of our type in the Southeast.  They need my relationships with the Owner Reps and Purchasing agents , we do 75% repeat business.  Projects in the triple digit $millions, I am 67 and do not give a lusty crap any more.

I have pulled more stuff and gotten by with it than these college children can even imagine.  They don't have to fire me I will quit.  They cannot cover the jobs we have now and I will not take one more than three hours from the house anymore, will not get on a commercial air liner ever again.  26 years of being their company man, well I don't have to have the aggravation anymore.  17 years ago when my wife's kidneys failed, I had a trip scheduled to Mexico to move a large process manufacturer and had done all the lead up negotiations, they said we would lose the project and would send nurses to my house to take up my slack, remember they provided the insurance...the question of if I would bleed the company colors then was answered as I left her in the hospital and my FIL did not speak to me for 6 months he was so pissed.

They sure do not want me going over to one of the clients and being THEIR watchdog.

Cut me loose, set me free!

I hear ya! I’m retiring at the end of the month. I worked 30 years to get their promised pension and retiree’s insurance. I’m taking it. My boss asked why I was leaving. I told him because I can!

[Quavodus]

Prayers

 

[Erik88]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

Did your dad get over it? How's he doing?

He seems to have mostly recovered and is happy to be back at work. Thanks for checking. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Erik88

[gregintenn]

26 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

He seems to have mostly recovered and is happy to be back at work. Thanks for checking. 

Glad to hear it, my friend!

[45guy]

I am told if your employer forces you to get the vaccine and you have complications it should be covered by their workman's comp. 

[Raoul]

It's about time everyone take a little responsibility and quit being dogmatic asswagons.

Flame away. I'm disappointed in some folks ignorance and lack of responsibility.

Adios friends.

[Garufa]

10 minutes ago, 45guy said:

I am told if your employer forces you to get the vaccine and you have complications it should be covered by their workman's comp. 

“Should” and “will” are entirely two different things.

[Alleycat72]

1 hour ago, 45guy said:

I am told if your employer forces you to get the vaccine and you have complications it should be covered by their workman's comp. 

We are not eligible for workman's comp. The job is deemed too hazardous. We had a dollar amount associated to any particular injury. Basically a first offer. I've never seen vaccination on there though. LOL

[Pain103]

4 hours ago, 45guy said:

I am told if your employer forces you to get the vaccine and you have complications it should be covered by their workman's comp. 

I wouldn't hold my breath. I saw worker's comp refuse coverage to two guys in my office who were in direct contact with positive people on the job and it was documented and caught it and had to take off. Their answer was you can't prove that is the person you caught it from. To many variables and unknowns and that always is in their favor.

[gregintenn]

4 hours ago, Raoul said:

It's about time everyone take a little responsibility and quit being dogmatic asswagons.

Flame away. I'm disappointed in some folks ignorance and lack of responsibility.

Adios friends.

Again, if the vaccine works, and you’ve taken it, there’s no reason for you to care if I’ve had it. If it doesn’t work, why’d you take it, and why should I take it?

Edited September 8, 2021 by gregintenn

[user1776]

4 hours ago, Raoul said:

It's about time everyone take a little responsibility and quit being dogmatic asswagons.

Flame away. I'm disappointed in some folks ignorance and lack of responsibility.

Adios friends.

All emotion aside, what are the facts you are basing your criticism on?

In my well-researched and educated opinion, this vaccine sort of sucks at being a vaccine. 

1. It doesn't prevent you from getting COVID-19 nor does it keep the virus from replicating in your body (although it does make you more likely to be asymptomatic... thereby inadvertently making you into a superspreader as you walk around not realizing you're sick because you don't get COVID tests daily)
2. It doesn't keep you from spreading it (see above)
3. There are tons of reported side effects/complications from taking the vaccine, with one of the key doctors behind mRNA technology expressing concern over the spike proteins used in the vaccine delivery technology + stories of spike proteins being found in places they weren't expected to be found in some people who've had the vaccine
4. It makes the most severe symptoms less severe... but so does being healthy (losing weight, eating better) and being healthy has not been associated with any negative side effects besides needing to buy new clothing perhaps

So if you want to take the vaccine for the benefit of #4 (a personal benefit applicable only to you) that's certainly your choice. But you aren't doing me any favors by getting the vaccine, so I invite you to dismount from your high horse

[ReeferMac]

Got 22 minutes to spare?

 

 

Maybe its propaganda, maybe its someones red-pill. Either way, was worth my time to watch it. YMMV. If you can't see the parallels however, you're not paying attention.

 

[RED333]

14 hours ago, Erik88 said:

He seems to have mostly recovered and is happy to be back at work. Thanks for checking. 

Good news is always welcome.

[DJTC45]

I'm getting my third today, I choose to do so do to my weekend Immune system do to stage 4 colon cancer and liver cancer. I'm not scared about getting the third dose I've got a death sentence any way they gave me 5yrs but I'm not going to help speed that time-line up by not taking a precaution with this going around. At least I'll have a fighting chance if I do catch it. I had no reaction to the first one. This debate about wether to get it or not is getting so crazy. I bet Phil Valintiine wishes he got the shot. Hears my opinion on it, and this will be my last post on this subject here on this forum, either get the vaccination or not, roll the dice and see what happens if you catch it and die, I couldn't care less it's your life not mine. Have a good day. (I hope Mr. spell checker reads this and tells me what I spelled wrong)

[gregintenn]

2 hours ago, DJTC45 said:

I'm getting my third today, I choose to do so do to my weekend Immune system do to stage 4 colon cancer and liver cancer. I'm not scared about getting the third dose I've got a death sentence any way they gave me 5yrs but I'm not going to help speed that time-line up by not taking a precaution with this going around. At least I'll have a fighting chance if I do catch it. I had no reaction to the first one. This debate about wether to get it or not is getting so crazy. I bet Phil Valintiine wishes he got the shot. Hears my opinion on it, and this will be my last post on this subject here on this forum, either get the vaccination or not, roll the dice and see what happens if you catch it and die, I couldn't care less it's your life not mine. Have a good day. (I hope Mr. spell checker reads this and tells me what I spelled wrong)

See, here is the thing. It isn’t really a debate. No one here is trying to get you to mot take the vaccine. Since you want it, I think it is great that it is available for you. What I don’t like is folks trying to make that same decision for me.

[AuEagle]

10 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Again, if the vaccine works, and you’ve taken it, there’s no reason for you to care if I’ve had it. If it doesn’t work, why’d you take it, and why should I take it?

Exactly. The same logic applies to masks, if they work, the masked have nothing to fear from the unmasked.

Great Post! Quoted for truth.

Edited September 8, 2021 by AuEagle

[btq96r]

20 hours ago, ReeferMac said:

Start with violations of the Nuremburg Code.

If this is going to be the internet story where you link this to forced medical experimentation...that implausible to being with reasoning is completely done for any vaccines with FDA approval (currently Pfizer, presumably soon to be Moderna and J&J).

[ReeferMac]

20 minutes ago, btq96r said:

...that implausible to being with reasoning is completely done for any vaccines with FDA approval (currently Pfizer, presumably soon to be Moderna and J&J).

Re-read the release.

Pfizer is NOT FDA approved.

All are still under EUA.

[btq96r]

3 minutes ago, ReeferMac said:

Re-read the release.

Pfizer is NOT FDA approved.

All are still under EUA.

Where pray tell is the approval lacking?

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine

https://www.fda.gov/media/151710/download

 

As I said, the other two are probably coming soon enough.  But with one FDA approved, the legal avenue exists for employee mandates in states without restrictions on it.

[GlockSpock]

30 minutes ago, ReeferMac said:

Re-read the release.

Pfizer is NOT FDA approved.

All are still under EUA.

Pfizer received full FDA approval I believe 08/23. It is still allowed to be used under it's EUA for ages 12-15 as the full FDA approval was only for those 16 and older.

 

[ReeferMac]

47 minutes ago, btq96r said:

Where pray tell is the approval lacking?

So the FDA has “fully approved” the Pfizer jab for Covid.

In doing so standing alone they have broken the law and thus have irrevocably destroyed their authority and any reason for anyone to ever do anything based on them ever again.

Let me explain.

Under black letter law an EUA is illegal if there is an alternative that is considered safe, effective and available. This was the reason the FDA did not (for 18 months!) run the studies and evaluate them on other early-intervention drugs for Covid-19. We all know what they are. I’m living proof they work too, as are millions of others worldwide.

But, more-importantly, this “full approval” voids all other vaccine EUAs for Covid-19. That is, under the law the Moderna and J&J instantly became illegal to offer or use within the United States.

The makers can apply for full authorization, of course, but the EUAs are void as of this morning and under black letter law cannot be administered to anyone in the United States as they are now unlicensed and unlawful products in human beings until and unless they are given full approval themselves. No medical provider can offer or administer any other than the Pfizer Covid-19 shot in the United States as of the moment of that approval.

You can bet the law will be ignored; note MRNAs stock price this morning. It should have instantly been cut in half.

In addition the FDA broke the law itself when it issued the “approval.” The law requires a full hearing and the data from the full set of trials; the trials are not capable of being completed until early 2022 by the original submissions and they deliberately did not hold the hearing. This is a black letter violation of the law as well, but nobody cares

 

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243355

[TGO David]

17 hours ago, Raoul said:

It's about time everyone take a little responsibility and quit being dogmatic asswagons.

Flame away. I'm disappointed in some folks ignorance and lack of responsibility.

Adios friends.

WAIT!  You can't teach me a new word like "asswagon" and then leave!   If I hit my thumb full-swing with a hammer, I am capable of swearing like a wounded pirate... but I've never even thought of combining those two words.