Guns stolen from cars!!!

[Defender]

The way I interpret the locked requirement is if the gun is out of sight, and the vehicle is locked, you are legal. Doesn't have to be in a locked glove box necessarily or a lockbox...Personnally I don’t leave my gun in my vehicle routinely, but there are occasions where I am kinda forced to by asinine rules like not being allowed to carry at a particular venue, but unwilling to not go there, like the post office for example. I keep a lock box in my car for extra security, not because it’s required.   The box is out of sight, locked, with a steel cable securing it to the vehicle, plus the car is also locked and alarm set too.  I drive a suv that I have been unable to find a supplier  of ready made firearms locking boxes for.  I’ve seen some nice ones for the console of some vehicles, like the Ford F-150...but not mine.

[chances R]

Looks like the water is muddied by legal responsibility vs civil, and those repercussions.  In today's political anti-gun climate I think the argument can be made and pressed with either or both.  Worse case: window open and in plain view, IMO, just like leaving your gun in the men's room.  Anything one can do to distance oneself from this worst case example the more responsible one appears.  Then one crosses the "line" Dave mentioned.  However, I think that line is very fluid, politically speaking.

[chances R]

My new gun safe:

 

[300winmag]

Change state law so that this 'enhanced' permit is an actual enhanced permit so that we do not have to leave our gun in a car at places where it is now illegal to carry.  It is difficult for a gun to be stolen when it is concealed on someone instead of left in a car.

[peejman]

11 hours ago, btq96r said:

I had to come at it from this wild scenario so I could understand it by creeping up to a point.  Do you think it should be a criminal charge if you failed to lock the car?  

 

This might be the third or fourth time I've had to clarify this...I have no desire to add to, or create a new criminal law regarding this.  I came into this thread to specifically discuss civil liability.  The conversation has just drifted to criminal because there is an actual law on the books (TCA § 39-17-1313 as I quoted a few posts up), but I'm just making inquires to see if people agree with that law how it's written or what they would change.  I'm not advocating one way or the other except for us to consider this issue.

I don't see any difference between civil and criminal liability in this case.  Stealing is stealing. Whether or not I choose to secure my property in no way justifies its theft. 

I'm talking adults, or at least people cognizant enough to know that stealing is wrong and guns can be dangerous. 

[chances R]

Really? Stealing is wrong, I get that.  But you park at a school for a football game and leave your gun obviously visible on the front passenger seat.  Some student sees it, breaks the window, and shoots the guy he had a beef with earlier in the day at school.  You really think you will get a pass on that?  The kid and his buddies  will sing to everyone that the gun was lying there in plain sight for the taking and your defense will be ‘well stealing is illegal and so is shooting someone’.  I don’t think that will turn out well for you, legally or civilly.

[DaveTN]

14 hours ago, btq96r said:

I had to come at it from this wild scenario so I could understand it by creeping up to a point.  Do you think it should be a criminal charge if you failed to lock the car?

No. Ask yourself this, does the perp have to commit a crime to get my gun?

If you think what the vehicle owner did was reckless; then charge them with that. But if you think you are going to put a criminal on the stand to testify against one of us about whether or not our vehicle was locked; that’s crazy. Although I would bet a liberal prosecutor would want to do just that.

14 hours ago, btq96r said:

This might be the third or fourth time I've had to clarify this...I have no desire to add to, or create a new criminal law regarding this.  I came into this thread to specifically discuss civil liability.  The conversation has just drifted to criminal because there is an actual law on the books (TCA § 39-17-1313 as I quoted a few posts up), but I'm just making inquires to see if people agree with that law how it's written or what they would change.  I'm not advocating one way or the other except for us to consider this issue.

But we aren’t discussing civil liability only.

This is what Doug posted in the first post:

Quote

“there was a couple elected officials talking about charging people who leave their guns in unlocked and unsecured vehicles and their guns are used in a crime.”

You can be sued civilly whether there is a criminal law or not. If an attorney thinks a Judge/jury will give him money based on how your weapon was secured, or not secured in your vehicle, and you have money to get; he will sue you. Does he need the law? No. Would it help him get more punitive damages? Yes.

 

 

[DaveTN]

14 hours ago, peejman said:

I don't see anything here that gets me to a place where my not making it hard to steal something is my fault. 

Exactly.

A DA could charge you with that if you left your windows down and a gun lying on the seat in plain view, if he thought he could get a jury to buy it.

But we are discussing those of us who may have to leave a gun in the glove box or console out of sight in a locked car vs. those that think we need a safe built into our car if we own a gun, and will still want to charge us if a criminal breaks in and gets it.

We have laws in place to deal with reckless conduct. We don’t need any new laws.

[DaveTN]

14 hours ago, Defender said:

The way I interpret the locked requirement is if the gun is out of sight, and the vehicle is locked, you are legal. Doesn't have to be in a locked glove box necessarily or a lockbox.

I agree. But I'm pretty sure that’s because that’s what I want it to say.  I can see how a DA could charge one of us if the vehicle is locked, but the glove box where the gun was stored wasn’t locked.

Since it appears this is going to be an issue; we need an AG’s opinion.

[chances R]

As per powerpoint for the ECP, the gun must be secured, out of sight.  It can be in the glove box, console, separate locking device, or simply in a locked vehicle.  Laying on the seat covered by the newspaper would be in compliance.

[QuackerSmacker]

1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

I agree. But I'm pretty sure that’s because that’s what I want it to say.  I can see how a DA could charge one of us if the vehicle is locked, but the glove box where the gun was stored wasn’t locked.

Since it appears this is going to be an issue; we need an AG’s opinion.

A locked glove box won't even stop a motivated granny with strong fingernails.

[chances R]

TCA39-17-1313 a2 is relative on storage.  This applies to schools as well,

[Grayfox54]

What about glove boxes that don't have locks? My car does, but my truck doesn't. 

[chances R]

3 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

What about glove boxes that don't have locks? My car does, but my truck doesn't. 

Did you read the TCA above?  Out of sight, doors locked.  Anything else in addition is a cherry on top.  I do prefer a small lock box with attached cable for an extra measure of security.  Nothing is fool proof, but helps keep honest people honest.

[RED333]

10 minutes ago, chances R said:

Nothing is fool proof, but helps keep honest people honest.

No such thing, honest is as honest does. Am honest person will not steal.

[GlockSpock]

On 2/18/2020 at 12:52 PM, gary_boom said:

Have you ever forgotten anything?

I have! And my iPod was stolen out of my unlocked vehicle when I did.

[tnhawk]

On 2/18/2020 at 11:52 AM, gary_boom said:

Have you ever forgotten anything?

Once, but I can’t remember what is was.