Guns stolen from cars!!!

[bersaguy]

I have been watching that news on channel 5 where they are talking about the Broken Juvenile Justice System and they are taking to parents that have lost children being shot by guns stolen from unlocked unsecured cars and trucks and there was a couple elected officials talking about charging people who leave their guns in unlocked and unsecured vehicles and their guns are used in a crime. I figured sooner or later that issue was going to come up with over 700+ guns taken from unlocked vehicles just this year and most of them by kids. I have no clue why anyone would leave a loaded firearm in an unlocked vehicle to begin with but if it continues I'm sure steps are going to be taken to prosecute anyone who has a gun taken from an unlocked unsecured firearm in their vehicle and may even be charged as part of the crime the gun is used in. My Gun is never left unattended in my vehicle. When I get in my Jeep my gun is on my hip in a holster and when I get out my gun gets out also. I do have a secured lock box in my Jeep for an instance I need to go in someplace I am not allowed to carry it but I avoid those places when at all possible. Can anyone give me a reason why anyone would leave a gun in an unlocked car/truck when they arrive home and go in the house for the night???? I would be interested in hearing some!!!

[DaveTN]

As a former Police Officer, I get mad every time I see this topic come up. You can’t make a person a criminal because they are a victim of a burglary. Metro PD needs to get off their lazy azz and go do the job they get paid to do. The Chief of Police where I was would have laughed at this and the told those planning it “You can’t be serious”.

I keep a handgun in my car and am planning on having a rifle. My vehicle is always locked; even when parked inside, in my garage. If a gun is stolen from my vehicle in a burglary and then discovered on a criminal that has just committed a crime, what do you think the criminal is going to say when asked if the vehicle was locked? Then a DA can make a name for himself by going after the terrible citizen that left his car “unlocked” with a gun in it.

 This is BS. 

Rant off. 

[hipower]

Sort of a joke, but...Soon we are going to be told that if a firearm is stolen in a home burglary...

We will be liable for that! Didn't secure it from home theft.

[gary_boom]

Have you ever forgotten anything?

[gregintenn]

Anybody give any thought to doing something about thieves?

[DaveTN]

1 minute ago, gregintenn said:

Anybody give any thought to doing something about thieves?

Ha, Ha, Ha, I thought I covered that. Did you miss the part where I said Metro should quit eating donuts and go check their districts? 

[hipower]

3 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Anybody give any thought to doing something about thieves?

That would require a shift in thinking on the liberal/gun hating left. And that's not very likely.

[bersaguy]

Believe me Dave, I agree with you 100% when it comes to metro not doing anywhere near enough to curb the gun thefts in Metro considering the 700 plus guns are just in Nashville area according to the news. They know they have a problem and have done nothing to address the issue. They know what areas are targeted the most so place some unmarked cars with officers in those areas and catch these kids checking vehicles doors to see if they are unlocked would be a good start. If you catch them before they can steal a gun good but if you catch them with a  gun then put them in jail till Momma can come and bail them out which happens all to often also. If my son was caught doing that he would sit it out in jail till court day.

   They have made a decision that two of the kids that killed that singer will be tried in adult court. I think all of them involved should be tried in Adult court. They need to quit treating these kids with a slap on the wrist for committing adult crimes. They say that the kids are not really aware of what they are  doing is wrong. That is a crock!! They know right from wrong long before they reach teenagers and many of them have been caught several times so they know its wrong but the slap on the wrist doesn't teach them anything except if that is all I'm going to get I will do it again......JMHO   

[btq96r]

If we keep prefacing "gun owner" with the adjective "responsible", we can't shy away from a conversation on what responsible actually means.  Police will always be behind criminals in regard to this kind of theft, so "cops need to fix it" or something to that effect ignores fundamental operating conditions.

I'm all for prosecuting those who steal guns to the fullest extent, but I think it's fair to think about what liability gun owners have for securing their firearms if they're used illegally.  I wouldn't go so far as to mandate locked (case or trigger/barrel lock) inside a locked vehicle, but if someone has the gun in the console or glove compartment without any lock besides the door, I think there is some level of liability for how secure keep (or don't keep it) when it's not in their positive possession.

I can see an argument that government areas shouldn't be able to restrict carry, but I still think a private business can exercise that prerogative if they wish.  Needing to do basic day to day things will eventually bring you up against a no guns allowed scenario, and at that point, I think we have a duty to do more than just check the box when it comes to securing our firearms.

[DaveTN]

31 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

Believe me Dave, I agree with you 100% when it comes to metro not doing anywhere near enough to curb the gun thefts in Metro considering the 700 plus guns are just in Nashville area according to the news. They know they have a problem and have done nothing to address the issue. They know what areas are targeted the most so place some unmarked cars with officers in those areas and catch these kids checking vehicles doors to see if they are unlocked would be a good start. If you catch them before they can steal a gun good but if you catch them with a  gun then put them in jail till Momma can come and bail them out which happens all to often also. If my son was caught doing that he would sit it out in jail till court day.

   They have made a decision that two of the kids that killed that singer will be tried in adult court. I think all of them involved should be tried in Adult court. They need to quit treating these kids with a slap on the wrist for committing adult crimes. They say that the kids are not really aware of what they are  doing is wrong. That is a crock!! They know right from wrong long before they reach teenagers and many of them have been caught several times so they know its wrong but the slap on the wrist doesn't teach them anything except if that is all I'm going to get I will do it again......JMHO   

It’s a failure by the parents and it’s a failure by the community. We need to not only take the cuffs off the Police, but we need prosecutors that will get convictions and jail/prison time.

That means building more/bigger jails and prisons. The taxpayers don’t want to pay for that.

But keep in mind that burglary is not seen as a violent crime as was years ago. When I was a cop you could shoot a fleeing burglar. We didn’t have many burglars run when we caught them in the commission of a burglary, now everyone runs; they have no reason not to. Until they pull a weapon; some don’t think they are an immediate threat. When they do pull a weapon; sometimes its too late. A Metro Police Officer is going to trial charged with murder for killing a suspect that was running with a gun in his hand. What was going to happen when he got to the corner and had cover and the Officer didn’t? But Oh, that’s not important.

 Does anyone think that when they are willing to charge cops with murder for shooting violent criminals; they won’t charge a civilian when they kill an intruder? Certainly, they will.

I know that Metro, like many Departments, probably doesn’t have the Officers for proactive Policing. And they go from one call to the next.

But as you can see, even some gun owners here are okay with charging me with a crime if I simply lock my car doors when I go in somewhere that requires me to leave my gun in the car. If I was a liberal gun hating DA, I would much rather let the criminal go, that has no money for attorney fees and fines, in exchange for their testimony against a law abiding gun owner that may have the money to have to pay out attorney fees to my fellow attorneys and fines to the government.

I am not a criminal hugger and I do not believe in second chances for criminals that commit violent crimes. Their second chance is after they do their prison time. Burglary of a car is a crime that deserves jail time the first time. Burglary of a house or business is a violent crime that should require mandatory prison time.

[peejman]

32 minutes ago, btq96r said:

I think it's fair to think about what liability gun owners have for securing their firearms if they're used illegally. 

 

My car is locked and gets stolen anyway. The thief then runs a red light and plows into a bus load of kids.  I'm liable for injuries to the children because someone stole my car? 

Edited February 18, 2020 by peejman

[btq96r]

1 minute ago, peejman said:

 

My car is locked and gets stolen anyway. The thief then runs a red light and plows into a bus load of kids in my car.  I'm liable for injuries to the children because someone stole my car? 

Cars ≠ Guns.  Your car has a secondary lock in needing keys to start the ignition. 

[Mamba]

16 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

I know that Metro, like many Departments, probably doesn’t have the Officers for proactive Policing. And they go from one call to the next.

+1. We've lived in SE Nashville for 2yrs now and I sub to one of those "crime watch" sites which shows the reported incidents in my area. Many of those, every week, yet I have never seen a patrol car...ever.
I get it....more crime than police...but it's a sad change from where I grew-up. I am thankful to live in such a 2A-friendly state.

[DaveTN]

13 minutes ago, Mamba said:

+1. We've lived in SE Nashville for 2yrs now and I sub to one of those "crime watch" sites which shows the reported incidents in my area. Many of those, every week, yet I have never seen a patrol car...ever.
I get it....more crime than police...but it's a sad change from where I grew-up. I am thankful to live in such a 2A-friendly state.

We are in a gun friendly state….for now.

What concerns me are the liberals that are going to want you to have to show that you saw a weapon and a “reasonable person” would think you were in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm when you run into their kid burglarizing your home in the middle of the night; and kill them.

Or they will want to charge you when you kill someone that tries to pull you out of your car during a car jacking, only to find, after you kill them; that they are unarmed.

My point is that when someone commits a criminal act against another; they should be held responsible for their crimes. The victim of a burglary can never be a criminal. And I don’t believe the state Supreme Court, or the SCOTUS will allow Nashville Metro government to do that.

[gregintenn]

3 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Ha, Ha, Ha, I thought I covered that. Did you miss the part where I said Metro should quit eating donuts and go check their districts? 

Dave, you label me as a cop basher, and I've earned it, but this isn't a police issue. It is a court issue. If we as a society do not decide to actually punish criminals harshly, we will continue to get more of the same.

I'd like to live in a society where locking one's doors is optional. That can happen again, but no one seems to have the stomach to fix the problem.

[DaveTN]

9 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Dave, you label me as a cop basher, and I've earned it, but this isn't a police issue. It is a court issue. If we as a society do not decide to actually punish criminals harshly, we will continue to get more of the same.

I'd like to live in a society where locking one's doors is optional. That can happen again, but no one seems to have the stomach to fix the problem.

Greg, we’re going to have to quit agreeing on LE issues; people will start to talk.

I wasn’t really blaming the cops, other than politicians thinking that cops should arrest victims of crimes. Most cops aren’t going to do that. But some would, and rookies would have to if that’s the law. That being enacted into law would be the problem.

 

[btq96r]

2 hours ago, DaveTN said:

The victim of a burglary can never be a criminal. And I don’t believe the state Supreme Court, or the SCOTUS will allow Nashville Metro government to do that.

I don't think we're talking criminal liability here, but civil (which I'm at least talking about) is a whole different matter.

[Garufa]

3 hours ago, btq96r said:

I’m all for prosecuting those who steal guns to the fullest extent, but I think it's fair to think about what liability gun owners have for securing their firearms if they're used illegally.  I wouldn't go so far as to mandate locked (case or trigger/barrel lock) inside a locked vehicle, but if someone has the gun in the console or glove compartment without any lock besides the door, I think there is some level of liability for how secure keep (or don't keep it) when it's not in their positive possession.

Why should one whose personal property is stolen be subject to any liability?  While leaving firearms unsecured is generally not an entirely acceptable thing, you are indicating that even though the gun is no longer in one’s possession or control they should bear some responsibility for the act of a criminal after the theft of said property.  

The idea is ludicrous and such inane laws are already becoming the norm in many states and municipalities.

Here’s just one of a thousand hypotheticals:  What If I run run out to the store and forget to lock the door of my house.  Someone invites themselves in, gets into the liquor cabinet, falls down the steps and breaks their neck, am I responsible for that?  What If they take an axe from the garage and kills someone with it?  Is that my fault?

Edited February 18, 2020 by Garufa

[peejman]

4 hours ago, btq96r said:

Cars ≠ Guns.  Your car has a secondary lock in needing keys to start the ignition. 

Correct, cars aren't equal to guns. Far more people are killed by/in cars than guns.  And lots of newer cars can be stolen with only a laptop.  

Not only would the thief have to break into my house, they'd also have to break into my gun cabinet, and then they'd have to disengage the safety prior to discharge. 

But it would still be my fault?

Edited February 19, 2020 by peejman

[Grayfox54]

I got an e-mail from Tennessee Firearms Association on this very subject today. Here's what they say.

Quote

February 18, 2020                  

 

On Monday, February 17, 2020, Newschannel 5 in Nashville ran an investigative report by reporter Phil Williams on the issue of the rising numbers of guns being stolen from cars in the Nashville area.  The news report highlighted how possible two weapons, which Channel 5 claims were stolen from two separate private vehicles, were seized from the juveniles who were investigated and later charged for a high profile robbery-murder in Nashville. 

 

Channel 5's report includes a crime map for the years 2015-2019 which shows the parts of town where police records claim that the weapons were stolen either from cars or were in cars when they were stolen.  A review of that map suggests heavier concentrations of thefts in the high density and parking garage areas of downtown Nashville as well as in other parts of town where residential street parking is a common problem.  Fewer thefts were reported in more affluent parts of Nashville where people tend to parking in private garages or off-street.  

 

Channel 5 quoted a noted gun control advocate who blamed youth violence on guns being stolen from cars.  The news report continues, quoting the gun control advocate:
 

She said guns stolen from cars is a big driver of youth violence across the state.

 

"What we see is as these numbers of guns being stolen out of cars increases both in Memphis and here in Nashville we see a correlating rise in homicides and especially youth homicides,"

 

Channel 5 references unidentified "experts" who blame the violence problems on the streets with a law passed in 2014 which allows citizens to store weapons in their personal vehicles even if the person does not have a handgun permit.  Channel 5 suggests, without quoting any source, that part of the problem is that there is no criminal penalty attached to the vehicle storage law from 2014.

 

The news report then partially quotes John Harris with the Tennessee Firearms Association.  When interviewed, Harris made it clear that part of the problem with firearms being left in vehicles arises from the mixture of state statutes and businesses which are posting properties to create gun free zones.  Under Tennessee law, many handgun permit holders are forced to leave their handguns in personal vehicles when they go to locations which by law prohibit handguns and/or into venues where the property owners or managers have posted the properties as gun free zones. Channel 5's report completely omits that staggering fact. 

It is clear from both the interview and the report that Channel 5, and or Phil Williams specifically, is pushing for a law that would impose criminal sanctions on these firearms owners who themselves are both the victim of a crime of theft or burglary and in some instances the victim of having their 2nd Amendment protected rights infringed by government created or supported gun free zones.   They apparently refuse to accept the fact that these vehicle owners and gun owners are themselves victims of a crime problem that is arising from many other social choices of a decaying government education and criminal justice system.  Its the typical of the gun control mentality which frivolously embraces the idea that if we just did not have gun owners or their guns then society would be safer and criminals would not commit crimes.

The news channel 5 story is a hot topic on the station's Facebook Page ( https://www.facebook.com/newschannel5/ )as well as the personal page of Phil Williams(https://www.facebook.com/PhilWilliamsNC5/).  You can also contact NewsChannel5 and its news directors through its website. 

 

 

 

I've mentioned before that every LEO I've ever asked said that the vast majority of stolen gun reports they do have the weapon stolen out of a vehicle. Its really surprising how many people have a "car" or "truck" gun that they leave in there all the time. To me, this is just asking for trouble. If there's a gun in my vehicle, its because its strapped to me.  I don't leave guns in vehicles except for those rare occasions when I can't take it in where I'm going.  And then I'm never away from it for any longer than absolutely necessary. 

btq96r makes a valid point about being a "responsible" gun owner. Its amazing how many of us aren't. 

 

BTW: if you aren't a member of TFA, you should be. 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Grayfox54

[Chucktshoes]

I’m sorry (not really sorry) but the irresponsible actions of one, do not excuse, nor are they equivalent to, the malicious actions of another.  Is it irresponsible to leave a firearm in an unlocked vehicle? No doubt. But in no way is it acceptable to criminalize a victim of a crime because they didn’t “take sufficient measures” to prevent the criminal actions of others. It’s just damn ridiculous to view making the victim of a crime a criminal as an acceptable solution to the problem of criminal behavior from folks acting with true criminal intent. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Chucktshoes

[FUJIMO]

What this says to me for those that leave them in vehicles and haven't had them broken into.

A. Make sure the gun or guns left in your vehicle aren't registered to you.

B. Either dont report the crime or do NOT report the gun or guns stolen when filing a report of B&E on your vehicle. 

When given the choice of reporting it and being made into a criminal or just cleaning up the mess and moving on which do you think people will choose  ?

[Chucktshoes]

2 minutes ago, FUJIMO said:

A. Make sure the gun or guns left in your vehicle aren't registeredtraceable to you.

 

FTFY since we don’t have registration of firearms in this state. 

[FUJIMO]

2 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

FTFY since we don’t have registration of firearms in this state. 

Thanks, no paper trail

I assume thus far these weapons stolen and then used in crimes were traced back to the victim/criminal/ former owner by some means, no ? I can't rattle off the SN of each EDC I carry but maybe that's something some of you hardcore guys can do and kudos to you

Edited February 19, 2020 by FUJIMO

[Ski]

8 hours ago, gary_boom said:

Have you ever forgotten anything?

Sorry, what was the question?