Things would have to get a lot worse.

[Daniel]

So how do you foresee we get there then? The chosen one is creating a dependent society that will guarantee liberal secular progressive victories in order to sustain the handouts they will become addicted to as if it were crack.

A breakup of the union has lots of benefits. The liberal morons can hold hands and sing kumbahya and think everyone is wonderful, the urban inner city Utes can just kill each other off and the rest of us can lead our lives the way we see fit with much less government intrusion or having the PC ways and values of the liberal blue states thrust upon us.

I do not fit any of your stereo types.

[Guest jackdog]

So how do you foresee we get there then? The chosen one is creating a dependent society that will guarantee liberal secular progressive victories in order to sustain the handouts they will become addicted to as if it were crack.

I'm pretty sure the economic crisis could be the catalyst. If we continue to spend like drunken sailors by printing more worthless money, eventually we will collapse the dollar. I think we are pretty close to that now. If that happens we will in all likely hood go in hyper inflation, where only the very upper class can afford a normal life and people will rebel.

The other likely hood is that the two most unsustainable items in our budget will break the bank. Welfare and medicare. When people on the dole are left hi and dry there will be chaos.

A breakup of the union has lots of benefits. The liberal morons can hold hands and sing kumbahya and think everyone is wonderful, the urban inner city Utes can just kill each other off and the rest of us can lead our lives the way we see fit with much less government intrusion or having the PC ways and values of the liberal blue states thrust upon us.

We forget that America has enemies all over the world. And not just terrorist. Should the union collapse we would become a lot easier target.

Should the states actually begin the process of seceding, the feds would have to go to marshall law. Perhaps it could bring down our unconstitutional government. I really wish that I had the magic answer, but I do not.

What I do no is this If America continues on the present course she will no longer be the Republic of the United States, governed by the rule of law.

But a doomed democracy under mob rule.

[Guest SUNTZU]

religion has more to do with money than it does with religion or God.

I'm a dyslexic, amnestic, agnostic. I stay up all night wondering if there really is a dog.

[E4 No More]

Revolutions and revivals are lead by the young and tempered by the old. I too see more hiding than fighting. We have stripped the understanding of necessary force from our young people and turned them into psycho babbling who think they can "talk" their way out of anything. "Walk softly and carry a big stick" comes to mind. I see all these " War is not the Answer" bumper stickers and I just have to shake my head. War is a the only answer when the enemy does not understand logic, truth, or reason.

I have become dismayed over America's change in attitude. We've gone from a country that says, "Don't tread on me" to a country that says, Don't tread on me, PLEASE!"

[Punisher84]

I'm a dyslexic, amnestic, agnostic. I stay up all night wondering if there really is a dog.

HA!

[G27]

It'll be interesting to see what happens if this economic downturn continues (and there's little reason to believe it won't at this point) - DJI was down almost 300 points today (3.8%) and there's little consumer confidence to bolster the market.

How long do you think it's going to be before more states are in California's position (facing insolvency)? If that happens, we'll see things get bad in a hurry...

[DaveTN]

How long do you think it's going to be before more states are in California's position (facing insolvency)? If that happens, we'll see things get bad in a hurry...

Well unless we put people back to work in good paying jobs; it has to happen.

Property taxes and sales taxes are going to sky rocket.

We can stop this anytime we like. I’m more concerned about how bad it will get before the people decide to act.

[Guest Astra900]

We can stop this anytime we like.

Is this the part where we start shooting, or is this a political move? I'm not sure I can believe a political move will ever get anything done again.:-\

And as for the "who do you want to kill?" Answer = no one, just frustrated:D and talking out my ars. Sort of.

I lied, I'll take a clear shot at Rosie and sleep well that night:devil:

Edited February 18, 2009 by Astra900

[Guest nraforlife]

Well unless we put people back to work in good paying jobs; it has to happen.

Property taxes and sales taxes are going to sky rocket.

We can stop this anytime we like. I’m more concerned about how bad it will get before the people decide to act.

How the frick are they going to raise taxes if people aren't working or have a substantially reduced income. I don't think I would want to be the whore that raises the taxes on my fellow citizens. May not be a good health decision.

[DaveTN]

Is this the part where we start shooting, or is this a political move? I'm not sure I can believe a political move will ever get anything done again.:-\

It’s neither a political move nor a fire at will.

It’s an economic problem so it needs an economic fix.

It’s called protectionism. In my opinion it shouldn’t be attempted by the government; this risks are too high. It should be implemented by the consumers. But after reading what some here have to say I don’t know how effective it would be.

We also need to quit racking our brains about who we can blame this problem on and think about what we can do to fix it.

As you can see I made the mistake of laying this right at the feet of who I think was responsible for it and that didn’t go over so well. So yea, let’s say it’s all the governments fault.

What do we do about it?

[DaveTN]

How the frick are they going to raise taxes if people aren't working or have a substantially reduced income. I don't think I would want to be the whore that raises the taxes on my fellow citizens. May not be a good health decision.

My parent’s generation’s retirement problem has been health care costs. My generation’s problem will be property taxes. Our homes will be paid for but we won’t be able to pay the property taxes.

Industry is moving, jobs are going overseas and to Canada and Mexico. The worse the economy gets the more services we will need. Who do think is going to pay the bills?

Certainly they are going to raise taxes; they will have no choice.

Those that can afford to keep their homes are going to have to pick up the losses from industry leaving and people losing their homes.

On a different note… I heard today that Tennessee is going to spend $25 million of its stimulus money on road repair.

Isn’t that friggin wonderful? That money is suppose to be used to help create jobs or stimulate the economy. More money ear marked for pet projects.

[G27]

Were it as simple as mere protectionism!

The reality is that we have better than 65% of our population with a negative net worth and the federal government is acting as if it wants to emulate that.

Protectionism is definitely a part of the fix, but the market will have to hard reset before it can grow in a healthy manner - this isn't as simple as a few decisions we make - until we have a manufacturing base in this country that can balance the trade deficit (we don't manufacture enough goods to replace imports and most Americans (as outlined above) are too leveraged to pay the necessary higher costs of goods that are American made products) we'll continue to sink further in debt.

So step one is protectionism, no doubt. But this problem is massively complex and won't be easily solved at this point.

[Moped]

Actually spending on roads and other infrastructure is a good thing!Construction is down right now. This will create jobs not just in construction but also in manufacturing, engineering and design. If contractors and construction workers are employed, then they will need materials like asphalt, concrete and steel. That in turn keeps concrete and asphalt plants open along with steel mills. Of course they will also need construction equipment, clothes, boots and a lot of other things which means those companies will helped as well.

Construction keeps a lot different jobs going and creates new ones.

Not to mention that we all get something out of this, whether it's better roads, sewers, waterlines, schools or even the internet. I wish they'd have spent more money on infrastructure than they did.

[Punisher84]

I bought 2 American cars in the last couple years. 1 of which was in August. Dodge even.

Huh? Wonder what this at my feet, don't belong to me.

[Guest jackdog]

I heard A LEO on the news today. Said is force was going to be cut back by 10%. the Irony was that he would increase is income by probably 60% due to overtime. So where is the logic in that. Christ on a crutch the Messiah just signed that crappy bill today and they are already talking about Stem packs 2 and 3, more bail outs for the banks and more for the auto companies. Rome is burning and the congress and president have all become the fiddle players.

[DaveTN]

Actually spending on roads and other infrastructure is a good thing!Construction is down right now. This will create jobs not just in construction but also in manufacturing, engineering and design. If contractors and construction workers are employed, then they will need materials like asphalt, concrete and steel. That in turn keeps concrete and asphalt plants open along with steel mills. Of course they will also need construction equipment, clothes, boots and a lot of other things which means those companies will helped as well.

Construction keeps a lot different jobs going and creates new ones.

Not to mention that we all get something out of this, whether it's better roads, sewers, waterlines, schools or even the internet. I wish they'd have spent more money on infrastructure than they did.

Sure… but I’m betting the $25 million is already budgeted. Just like the tobacco money, I don’t think this money is going to be used for the intended purpose. This isn’t supposed to be a handout… correct? It is suppose to stimulate the economy?? Sorry, but I don’t see where road construction that is going to happen anyway is going to do that.

How about using that money to get new business to locate to Tennessee in the form of discounted property or tax incentives?

[Smith]

Think about it this way. Government projects were going to happen one way or the other, government jobs are not the ones being cut or lost. How many teachers, judges, etc. have lost jobs? A few sure, but the biggest losses are in private business mainly small and now large business. Big corporations can afford to downsize to survive and then bounce back when times get better. Small businesses go away when they downsize. I can guarantee you no small businesses are going to get government contracts or any "stimulus". They don't contribute enough politically.

One of the biggest problems with socialism is not that it "spreads the wealth" it is that it spreads the pain. As long as we continue on this path we are headed for a painful 4 years.

[DaveTN]

Were it as simple as mere protectionism!

It’s not, but Americans need to understand that it is not a bad thing, and we are in a war to survive.

until we have a manufacturing base in this country that can balance the trade deficit (we don't manufacture enough goods to replace imports and most Americans (as outlined above) are too leveraged to pay the necessary higher costs of goods that are American made products) we'll continue to sink further in debt.

Then buy products that are made here that don’t cost anymore. Cars and guns made here don’t cost anymore.

People hung on every word Greenspan said, until he said the economy could not recover until we brought our manufacturing base back; then people didn’t want to listen to him. Why? Because they didn’t like what that meant.

Were it as simple as mere protectionism!

this isn't as simple as a few decisions we make -

But this problem is massively complex and won't be easily solved at this point.

Crimson I’m sure you believe that. And I mean no disrespect but that kind of attitude will not help fix the problem. We need to act and we need to do it now. We are taking no action right now that I see will create jobs or put people back to work. Giving a bunch of money to GM without having them tell us how that money will help cause more people to buy their product is ridiculous. So is handing out money to the states to do with what they wish.

When I was in the Saturn plant many years ago they showed me how the plant was built with a modular design. They said this design allowed them to change over from building Saturn’s to Cadillac’s (if need be) in a much shorter period of time than before.

If that is true and Saturn’s aren’t selling. And the Feds and the state want to give money away… how about helping with the cost of retooling that plant with something in the GM line that is selling and close a plant in Canada or Mexico?

[G27]

Crimson I’m sure you believe that. And I mean no disrespect but that kind of attitude will not help fix the problem. We need to act and we need to do it now. We are taking no action right now that I see will create jobs or put people back to work.

I'm starting to believe you really don't understand the functioning issues at hand - this isn't something we can just 'take action' on and work our way out of. The economy runs on debt - always has, always will - so when consumers can't borrow (the credit still isn't there, for a variety of reasons) the economy grinds to a halt. I don't agree with TARP but if it hadn't happened the economy would have completely crashed late last year - we were literally hours away from a complete crash in late Sept 08.

This is nowhere near as simple as you continue to paint it out to be. And frankly, your attitude of 'buy American and it will save us' is about as helpful as us typing on this forum - the trade deficit is a function of this but only a small part at this point.

[Guest nraforlife]

Isn't it ironic that the first Black President is the one that ends up selling the people into slavery?

[Guest jackdog]

Isn't it ironic that the first Black President is the one that ends up selling the people into slavery?

I think bush beat him to that one with original tarp money and first Detroit bailout.

The reinvestment and recovery act is primarily a spending spree for Nancy and harry Reed and the rest of the socialist thieves.

And now we have Gm and dodge asking for another 40 billion. Hey if ford management was smart enough to ahead of the curve then and not need a hand out then congress needs to tell Gm and Dodge to use the bankruptcy

system like thousands of other business's have went in the past.