Pistol Braces

[Flyboy]

Just got a new pistol and was told that the ATF has changed the ruling so that now you can shoulder your pistol. Here is the latest that I have found.

 

 

atf-letter-march-21-2017.pdf

Edited January 5, 2020 by Flyboy

[RED333]

Just my $0.02, the ATF have and will change things at their will at any time.

[Flyboy]

But for now it looks  like its good to go off the shoulder!! I had been looking at the pinned post above of the Brace that says it's not approved.

Got a new pistol in, and while doing the paper work noticed the brace was extendable. I asked about it and they said it was good to go and I can even shoulder it. So I was just double checking and seen where Sig had a link on their site.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Flyboy

[DaveTN]

There is always a lot of drama over this. The brace was not designed to be used as a stock. Using it as one without it being on a SBR could be construed as violating the law.

I do not care one way or the other, I am simply posting this because our members need to understand that an ATF ruling does not have the force of law. They tell you that on their web site.

I am not an attorney, but my opinion is that you are not “Good to go”. If you are arrested using a brace as a stock and a court decides that ATF opinion is wrong; you could be in prison and your family in financial ruin. I would suggest anyone considering this contact their attorney.

[Omega]

37 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

There is always a lot of drama over this. The brace was not designed to be used as a stock. Using it as one without it being on a SBR could be construed as violating the law.

I do not care one way or the other, I am simply posting this because our members need to understand that an ATF ruling does not have the force of law. They tell you that on their web site.

I am not an attorney, but my opinion is that you are not “Good to go”. If you are arrested using a brace as a stock and a court decides that ATF opinion is wrong; you could be in prison and your family in financial ruin. I would suggest anyone considering this contact their attorney.

Meh, I shoulder mine all the time.  ATF has deemed it is ok, and until they officially change their mind I will keep doing it.

[GlockSpock]

Technically, though, aren't these letters only "good" for the person that the letter is written to?

(I think that's a trick question). The answer depends on how much lawyer you can afford.

Edited January 6, 2020 by GlockSpock

[Mamba]

Meh. I shoulder mine at the range all the time...no one there gives a FF. Yah, IF there is an ATF agent in the adjacent lane he might have a problem. However the ATF is an unconstitutional agency, so I don't pay it much mind.

[gregintenn]

Let me know when someone gets arrested for it and you’ll have my attention.

[btq96r]

Pretend every time you have a picture, or a post online where you talk about putting the "brace" up to your shoulder and firing, an ATF agent is logging that for referral to an overzealous federal prosecutor.  How comfortable are you with your "I read a letter" defense?

[DaveTN]

45 minutes ago, Mamba said:

Meh. I shoulder mine at the range all the time...no one there gives a FF. Yah, IF there is an ATF agent in the adjacent lane he might have a problem. However the ATF is an unconstitutional agency, so I don't pay it much mind.

It wouldn’t need to be an ATF agent. SBR’s are illegal under state law unless in full compliance with the requirements of the National Firearms Act.

Anything is possible. Antonio Sales was charged under 39-17-1302 for possession of a PLR-16 in Sumner County Tennessee. There is no case law because Sales made a plea agreement that required him to get rid of the weapon, in return charges were dropped. Rumor is that he could no longer afford the legal battle; but I don't know that to be fact.

Edited January 6, 2020 by DaveTN

[DaveTN]

22 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Let me know when someone gets arrested for it and you’ll have my attention.

 The above happened one county west of you, and it involved drugs. But stuff happens.

[Defender]

11 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

 The above happened one county west of you, and it involved drugs. But stuff happens.

 

21 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

It wouldn’t need to be an ATF agent. SBR’s are illegal under state law unless in full compliance with the requirements of the National Firearms Act.

Anything is possible. Antonio Sales was charged under 39-17-1302 for possession of a PLR-16 in Sumner County Tennessee. There is no case law because Sales made a plea agreement that required him to get rid of the weapon, in return charges were dropped. Rumor is that he could no longer afford the legal battle; but I don't know that to be fact.

I remember this one...I wonder if the officer and then the prosecutor knew the law and were just trying to get a 'bad guy' to forfeit his gun, or if they just didnt understand the law...  If the latter, thats scary, if the former, thats also scary because who's to say who is considered a bad guy?  I dont do drugs at all, but I do guns, ...which some folks thin k makes me a bad guy. If I remember correctly, that PLR-16 did not have a brace, it was strictly configured as a pistol...I do remember drugs were involved, but I also seem to remember that the pistol owner wasnt the one with the drugs?

Edited January 6, 2020 by Defender

[DaveTN]

35 minutes ago, Defender said:

I remember this one...I wonder if the officer and then the prosecutor knew the law and were just trying to get a 'bad guy' to forfeit his gun, or if they just didnt understand the law...  If the latter, thats scary, if the former, thats also scary because who's to say who is considered a bad guy?  I dont do drugs at all, but I do guns, ...which some folks thin k makes me a bad guy. If I remember correctly, that PLR-16 did not have a brace, it was strictly configured as a pistol...I do remember drugs were involved, but I also seem to remember that the pistol owner wasnt the one with the drugs?

We don’t know for sure what happened; or I certainly don’t. I remember reading posts from people claiming to be in the know; but you know hot that goes.

But the story I got was that the Prosecutor was very clear on the law, he had talked to the BATF, they submitted paperwork to him, and an agent was going to testify for the defense; he just didn’t agree that the gun was legal. And that’s my point. If it would have gone to court and there was a court ruling the gun violated Federal law; the ATF’s “ruling” wouldn’t be worth the paper it was written on.

It was my understanding that it was his car and that he didn’t have drugs on him, but they were in the car; that’s a problem for him. I don’t think the DA wanted him to forfeit the gun or he would have just made that part of the plea agreement. But a plea agreement was made and he had to get the gun out of the county. I wouldn’t be surprised if some palms were greased in the background. That ruling could have been expensive for some gun companies; and still may be.

[Omega]

17 hours ago, btq96r said:

Pretend every time you have a picture, or a post online where you talk about putting the "brace" up to your shoulder and firing, an ATF agent is logging that for referral to an overzealous federal prosecutor.  How comfortable are you with your "I read a letter" defense?

I still have no problem shouldering mine.  I really don't care who happens to be next to me, the current ATF policy states that the use of a weapon does not change what a weapon is.  Because a weapon can be fired at an accelerated speed does not make it a machine gun, because a weapon can kaboom does not make it a bomb.  

[Erik88]

2 hours ago, Omega said:

I still have no problem shouldering mine.  I really don't care who happens to be next to me, the current ATF policy states that the use of a weapon does not change what a weapon is.  Because a weapon can be fired at an accelerated speed does not make it a machine gun, because a weapon can kaboom does not make it a bomb.  

 

[Omega]

23 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

 

Sure, and I will reiterate, I will use my weapon in all legal means that I can.  If laws/rules change then I will reevaluate my need for a rifle caliber pistol.

[Erik88]

39 minutes ago, Omega said:

Sure, and I will reiterate, I will use my weapon in all legal means that I can.  If laws/rules change then I will reevaluate my need for a rifle caliber pistol.

I'm just giving you a hard time. I agree with you. I just don't trust the ATF to be consistent on this issue. 

[DaveTN]

3 hours ago, Omega said:

I still have no problem shouldering mine.  I really don't care who happens to be next to me, the current ATF policy states that the use of a weapon does not change what a weapon is.  Because a weapon can be fired at an accelerated speed does not make it a machine gun, because a weapon can kaboom does not make it a bomb.  

 

44 minutes ago, Omega said:

Sure, and I will reiterate, I will use my weapon in all legal means that I can.  If laws/rules change then I will reevaluate my need for a rifle caliber pistol.

My comments here were not meant to get you or anyone else all wound up. We share information on this forum, and hopefully keep each other informed on the law, as best we can without having attorneys giving opinions on specific cases.

My point was that the lame azz ATF sends those letters out that get posted all over the forums and folks act like they are the law. The ATF then goes on to tell you those letters have no force of law. However, they will be more than happy to provide a copy of that letter at your trial where a real judge will determine if what you did violates the law. That part of their silly non-sense rarely gets posted. So that’s what I’m doing. 

[Johnny Rotten]

NF4znVW by Johnny Rotten, on Flickr

 

[mikegideon]

I just chose to skip the pistol brace thing, just like I skipped bump stocks. I got the same feeling when I read the letters. If I really want an SBR, I'll go the long route. The Feds are less trustworthy than a crack ho.

[Grayfox54]

If shouldering a brace was illegal, there would be a whole bunch of folks on YouTube in jail. 

[dawgdoc]

Donald Trump, Jr. was recently pictured with a braced AR pistol at a range.  The liberals are in a fit because of the magazine featuring Hillary behind bars and a crusader helmet on the receiver.  I'm sure he was shooting that pistol as intended by the ATF.

[mikegideon]

1 hour ago, dawgdoc said:

Donald Trump, Jr. was recently pictured with a braced AR pistol at a range.  The liberals are in a fit because of the magazine featuring Hillary behind bars and a crusader helmet on the receiver.  I'm sure he was shooting that pistol as intended by the ATF.

I have one of those Hillary mags. I love it...

[mikegideon]

8 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

If shouldering a brace was illegal, there would be a whole bunch of folks on YouTube in jail. 

There was a time you could say that about bump stocks. All it takes is one incident. Some guys shoots up a school with his SBR errr pistol

[Omega]

56 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

There was a time you could say that about bump stocks. All it takes is one incident. Some guys shoots up a school with his SBR errr pistol

Already happened, and nobody blinked.

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/08/748665339/the-pistol-that-looks-like-a-rifle-the-dayton-shooters-gun