US Strike Kills Top Iranian Terror Mastermind Qassem Soleimani

[TGO David]

I'm surprised we don't have a thread for this on TGO yet.  What are your thoughts on the matter?

I think it's long overdue.  I keep reading remarks from people who are younger than some of the shoes I have in my closet, to the effect that we don't need to be sucked into another conflict in the Middle East.  Some of these kids weren't even swimming in their fathers' loins yet during the late 1970s and don't realize that Iran has been at war with the US since 1977 and we've just not really done much to publicly recognize it over the last 40 years.

 

[peejman]

Good riddance.

I hope Trump permitted the local theater commanders to execute the strike under their own authority. It appears to have been very well planned, I doubt this was a target of opportunity. 

All the talk about stiring the pot... well, yeah.  You'd think they'd know Trump is both good at that and enjoys it by now, but I'm probably giving them too much credit. I'm sure this will generate some reprisal attempts on civilian targets because thats how Iran rolls.  I hope the powers that be are able to stop them. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by peejman

[FUJIMO]

I think this is a thread better suited for General Politics 

I've caught several mentions of it throughout the day starting at 3 am and my take, if I went solely off what the squawk box and handheld lifeline tells me is its Trumps fault and that Iranian guy was a swell fella. We poked the peaceful bear and now deserve every terrible thing we sorry ass troublesome Americans get. 

But that was my take

[Erik88]

I miss the days when presidents asked for congressional approval before launching military attacks. Aside from that I have no issue with that guy dying. Iran is not our friend. 

If we're going to go by that logic though, why doesn't he order some strikes against Saudi Arabia while he's at it? They only pretend to like us.

 

[TGO David]

20 minutes ago, FUJIMO said:

I think this is a thread better suited for General Politics 

I'd really hope we can discuss a world event without it becoming partisan.

[Chucktshoes]

https://foreignpolicy.com/gt-essay/irans-deadly-puppet-master-qassem-suleimani/

 

He has been on our radar as a possible target for a very long time. 

[Grunt67]

38 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I miss the days when presidents asked for congressional approval before launching military attacks. Aside from that I have no issue with that guy dying. Iran is not our friend. 

If we're going to go by that logic though, why doesn't he order some strikes against Saudi Arabia while he's at it? They only pretend to like us.

 

I'm sure the terrorist in question would have preferred to wait for Congress to debate this for months & make up their minds.

[Erik88]

25 minutes ago, Grunt67 said:

I'm sure the terrorist in question would have preferred to wait for Congress to debate this for months & make up their minds.

You're not wrong.

Will you feel the same way the next time a Democrat does it? I recall this forum being angry with Obama(king of drone strikes) when he did similar things. And I realize this isn't unique to Trump. How long have presidents been ignoring this rule? Should it even exist anymore since everyone ignores it?

If we allow them to ignore certain parts of the constitution there is no stopping it.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Erik88
Typo

[AuEagle]

Brief explanation about the presidents rights to use the military.

The action President Trump took was not in any way unconstitutional.

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by AuEagle

[Garufa]

I don’t know what the exact policy is regarding targeting political leaders of belligerent countries other than it’s not done, or if it is in fact codified.  

All bets are off for military officers.  Sounds like he needed to go and appropriate action was taken.

[TGO David]

39 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

You're not wrong.

Will you feel the same way the next time a Democrat does it?

I dream of a day when we never have another Democrat in the Oval Office not pushing a vacuum cleaner.

 

[Grand Torino]

It's time we do this instead of kissing other world leaders........well you know. For the record as much as I despised Obama I never had a problem with his drone strikes. The best thing he ever did in office was send the Seals to kill that SOB Bin Laden.

[Chucktshoes]

6 PMU leaders gone. They’re pro Iranian, but they were also Iraqi government officials. It’s not a far leap to say that we are essentially redeclaring war in Iraq. 

[Grunt67]

52 minutes ago, AuEagle said:

Brief explanation about the presidents rights to use the military.

The action President Trump took was not in any way unconstitutional.

 

https://duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=https%3A%2F%2Faclj.org%2Fnational-security%2Fwhat-powers-does-the-president-have-to-take-military-action-without-congressional-approval

The link didn't work for me, but you're correct in that the President has the power to do this.

An act of war, must be via Congress. This was not. Personally, I don't care who does it as long as it gets done & accomplishes it mission.

JMHO

Edited January 4, 2020 by Grunt67
additional info

[superduty]

Is the GWOT over? Will it ever be?  Is this outside of the scope of that?

Maybe I'm just naive, but I dont see the problem with this.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by superduty

[No_0ne]

2 hours ago, TGO David said:

I'd really hope we can discuss a world event without it becoming partisan.

 

[TGO David]

45 minutes ago, Grand Torino said:

It's time we do this instead of kissing other world leaders........well you know. For the record as much as I despised Obama I never had a problem with his drone strikes. The best thing he ever did in office was send the Seals to kill that SOB Bin Laden.

Yep.  He got a few things right.

Sending Iran a pallet of USD was insanely stupid, though.

[superduty]

10 minutes ago, TGO David said:

Yep.  He got a few things right.

Sending Iran a pallet of USD was insanely stupid, though.

Kerry was involved

[RED333]

3 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

https://foreignpolicy.com/gt-essay/irans-deadly-puppet-master-qassem-suleimani/

 

He has been on our radar as a possible target for a very long time. 

Far to long!!!

[TGO David]

Reading the news tonight, it sounds like we smoked a few more baddies while Iran was "taking three days to mourn".  Clearly the US doesn't take days off.

 

[BrasilNuts]

4 hours ago, Erik88 said:

You're not wrong.

Will you feel the same way the next time a Democrat does it? I recall this forum being angry with Obama(king of drone strikes) when he did similar things. And I realize this isn't unique to Trump. How long have presidents been ignoring this rule? Should it even exist anymore since everyone ignores it?

If we allow them to ignore certain parts of the constitution there is no stopping it.

What ruffled some feathers was when Obama ordered a drone strike on a U.S. citizen.

[Grunt67]

2 hours ago, superduty said:

Is the GWOT over? Will it ever be?  Is this outside of the scope of that?

Maybe I'm just naive, but I dont see the problem with this.

 

 

No, it's not, and likely will not be in the foreseeable future. As long as there is a male & female terrorist alive, there will be more. They've been fighting each other for thousands of years, now they're just branching out. Then, there's that 72 virgin thing........

[btq96r]

I have a friend buried in Arlington who lost her life when an EFP hit the Buffalo vehicle she was riding in as the medic on a route clearing mission with engineers, so I had a bit of personal interest while reading we smoked "Haji Qassem".  My first thought at this was "holy ####", and I'm willing to say it was a happy feeling.  This guy was as important as can be to Iran's foreign policy aims, and the stories about him probably undersell how good at his job he was.  Both the Bush and Obama administrations didn't think it was worth the predicted backlash to kill Soleimani, even though he was commanding a very effective effort against US interests all across the Middle East.  It became a "cost of doing business" assessment that he would have a role in the battle-space.  President Trump clearly overcame any hesitations about escalation, which is seemingly at odds with a guy who wants to avoid being sucked into more war without cause (a policy I wholeheartedly approve of).

This guy flew into Baghdad airport on the regular, and probably had a diplomatic passport getting stamped to boot.  He could have driven from Iran to the Israeli border in an SUV and nobody would have dared make a move on him...he was that gangsta.  Until now.  I give the President a lot of credit for that and my support, the storm it may bring be damned.  A bit of paranoia is a good thing for bad guys to have when they cross the lines that Soleimani lived across.  So, I'm quite glad he's dead, because as much as "next man up" will apply to the organization he led, it's very unlikely anyone else will do the job as well as he did, for lack of reputation in dealing with matters requiring personal persuasion if nothing else.

While I'm happy that we exercised a model of "we own escalation" as I saw one article put it, the risk could get cashed in anytime.  Soleimani was considered a "living martyr" before he became a dead martyr, so he was prepared to die for his cause, and that kind of reputation has a purpose in Iran.  Anyone that says they know what's coming next, aside from Iran doing something to retaliate, is full of it; the calculation models are being re-written...in the dark.  This is the biggest single move escalation since the embassy was taken in 1979, and we're in some uncharted territory vis a vis how we deal with Iran, and how they deal with us. 

One of the best things from this is the Shia government in Iraq is pissed.  They were always an impediment to any serious efforts targeting Shia forces, and the Quds Force in Iraq.  Basically they loved how the US would help them keep the Sunni's in check, and uncomfortable with anything us taking on Shia forces that weren't on "their side" (tribal spats and the like).  If they revoke the authorization for us to be in their country, I'd take that any day of the week as a stand alone event.  Getting to punch Soleimani's martyr card on top of that is just a bonus, like free pie day O'Charley's.

All that exuberance aside...everything we killed Soleimani for was from a tit-for-tat with Iran ever since we orchestrated political changes in their country, and they responded with an Islamic revolution.  From the Iraq-Iran war, to the Iraqi occupation, they had their reasons for hating us and letting Soleimani operate in a model of what they deem "resistance".  So, when you think of this, be content someone very bad and dangerous is dead, be very grateful that our forces can project this kind of power on demand, but also remember that everything leading up to it came from our heavy handed ways in the region because we saw a need to be there and be dominant.  I'll leave it up to you to decide if that's a good or bad way to conduct foreign policy on a gains/loss basis.

[E4 No More]

My view is that we have this problem with Iran today because Carter and Reagan didn't have the stones to take care of them in either 1979 or 1983. I understood Carter's inaction because he was a known pansy. I did NOT expect Reagan to allow the deaths of so many of my brother Marines, soldiers, and sailors to go unanswered. It's why I get annoyed to see people lift him up as a great president. Had we counter-struck 10 fold back to Iran with cruise missiles they would not be still killing our people today whether directly or indirectly. 

Will this lead us to war? I am no more of a prophet than anyone else. Iran thinks Russia will protect them but that didn't work out too well for other countries Russia has backed. I don't recall Russia getting directly engaged in any conflict with the US. Selling arms and sending advisers, sure.

While I am glad that the US has taken out this a-hole it still doesn't make up for the thousands of killed and maimed at the hands of the Iranians. I think it's a foregone conclusion that Iran will strike back making it more important for the US to strike again even harder. Eventually, they'll either die or learn their lesson.

[Whisper]

8 hours ago, btq96r said:

This guy flew into Baghdad airport on the regular, and probably had a diplomatic passport getting stamped to boot.  He could have driven from Iran to the Israeli border in an SUV and nobody would have dared make a move on him...he was that gangsta.  Until now. 

Yep. As a friend observed yesterday, there's probably a lot of Iranian military leaders who are wondering now if that upcoming trip to Iraq is really essential....

Back when I was over there (2006-2008), the big menace was Muqtada al-Sadr, leader at that time of the Mahdi Militia (now reformed under another name that I forget).  He was also an excellent candidate for being droned, though we never did it, for reasons similar to why Suleimani was never hit.

But I bet today he's traveling more on the down-low than he did last week.