Texas Church Shooting

[AuEagle]

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/12/texas-church-shooting-shooter-gets-off-two-shots-before-hes-shot-dead-no-less-than-four-church-members-pulled-guns-on-shooter/

[Chucktshoes]

They obviously had a security team that was organized and had a plan in place. Good on them. 

Video of the incident-

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=a7Egb_1577654583

 

Local news reporting of it.

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/12/29/2-dead-1-critically-injured-shooting-white-settlement-church/

 

“Why do you carry a gun at church?”

This is why. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Chucktshoes

[RED333]

Praying for all involved.

[Ronald_55]

Looks like one person shot was a church member or guard drawing his gun slowly. Maybe reacting to a visible gun on the shooter. 

Seems odd circumstances of the shooter talking to a guy to the side before things went off.

[Brewer]

The victim's gesture looks like he was asked something innocuous like where to find the bathroom, lowering his guard. That and being frozen in the OODA loop. Nice shot from the guy who ended it.

Just imagine how long it would take for police to respond if there were no armed congregants!

[Garufa]

There really is a special place in hell for people that target churches or their congregations (of any kind) like this.

[Grayfox54]

Scum bag got exactly what he deserved. You can bet the main stream media will bury this as fast as they can.  

[Erik88]

They entire thing lasted around 6 seconds. It's a damn good thing they had such a good security team. Good for them.

[swiley383]

It’s a shame that you should carry in church but I always do. Church and schools should be 2 of the safest place but unfortunately that is not the case. I always pray for peace but prepare for the worst. God be with them.

[Dirtshooter]

3 hours ago, Brewer said:

 

Just imagine how long it would take for police to respond if there were no armed congregants!

From what I read about 20 minutes is average for police to get there. A .40 cal will get to the point at 1,000+ FPS.

My SIL is a preacher and carry's a .45 Kimber on him every day. What is the old saying better to have it and not need it as need it and not have it.

One of the reasons for us joining our church was the security team.

Prayers for all involved.

[Ski]

4 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

Video of the incident-

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=a7Egb_1577654583

Thanks for the link.  My first instinct was that it was a domestic situation, but the video leads me to believe it was not that at all.  There's a lot there to consider like the importance of moving and drawing.

I can't tell for sure, but it looks like a couple of people swept congregants with their muzzle after the threat seems to be neutralized.  The guy in the black vest seemed to have better muzzle discipline.

I wonder how much the age of most of the congregants affected how many people concealment versus running.

It looks like the situation could have been much worse.

[Grayfox54]

Aw man, don't go there. On another forum the video had barely come out when a bunch of Internet "experts" started critiquing everything the security team did wrong. Muzzle sweeps, poor movement, lack of cover etc. Bottom line is the BG was stopped as soon as he got started. No further injuries. Nobody was shot by accident. Sure, they probably could have done better, but there's no point in bringing it up now. This was a win! 

[Erik88]

John has a video out on it already. If you aren't familiar with him do yourself a favor and watch a few of his other videos. He's running the best self defense channel on YouTube in my opinion.

 

 

[Grayfox54]

News on the good guy is out. For those wondering how he stayed cool and made that shot, he's a firearms instructor. I'm glad he was there. 

Jack Wilson

[TGO David]

7 hours ago, Erik88 said:

John has a video out on it already. If you aren't familiar with him do yourself a favor and watch a few of his other videos. He's running the best self defense channel on YouTube in my opinion.

You are welcome to your opinion, but in mine John is a hack.  He also violated his own practice of supposedly waiting 72 hours before he comments on an incident of this nature.  I suppose the fear of losing clicks to his competitors drove him to abandon what I felt like was one of his few redeeming qualities.

 

3 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

News on the good guy is out. For those wondering how he stayed cool and made that shot, he's a firearms instructor. I'm glad he was there. 

Jack Wilson

Not to take anything away from Mr. Wilson, and I certainly am very glad that he was there and was capable of doing what he did, but let's not hastily put firearms instructors on a pedestal and believe for a moment that being one is the only way that a person could perform similarly in such a dire circumstance.

The big reason why being an instructor really matters here is that Mr. Wilson likely has spent more time packing and unpacking his bags at a shooting range than most people actually spend AT a shooting range in the first place.

There's a reason why I harp so much on training and actually going SHOOTING with your gun.  Proficiency comes with experience.  Experience comes from doing.  And most people need help doing it correctly, at least to begin with.  We all should spend more money on ammo, and more time pulling the trigger in purpose-driven drills, than we do on hoarding collections of guns.

Mr. Wilson knows how to shoot.  He didn't get that way by accident.  Any of us is equally capable of becoming proficient enough to do the job if we're willing to put in the focused-time and focused-effort.

 

[Erik88]

21 minutes ago, TGO David said:

You are welcome to your opinion, but in mine John is a hack

1.5 million followers...Definitely a hack.  He's putting out high quality content that is almost certainly doing a lot to help our cause. 

[TGO David]

37 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

1.5 million followers...Definitely a hack.  He's putting out high quality content that is almost certainly doing a lot to help our cause. 

Your argument lacks substance, much like Correia’s qualifications as an expert on self defense. The only thing he’s consistently proven is an ability to appear to be “about that life” without actually being about that life.

He was more tolerable when he stuck to just cataloging videos of critical incidents rather than try to sell himself as anything other than a librarian. 

[deerslayer]

I have never heard of the the guy and have no idea if he is a hack, but I agree with a lot of what he said.  The guy who put the bad guy down was fumbling with his gun before the first shot was fired.  What took so long?  Also, two guys who show up on the screen after the smoke cleared pointed their guns at just about anybody inside the church.  They need some training and practice or need to leave their guns at home.  Both were a slip of an undisciplined trigger finger away from giving Democrats talking points on why ordinary citizens shouldn’t carry guns. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m overjoyed the good guys stepped in, but there is a lot to learn from this video. 

[deerslayer]

And kudos to CNN for putting this story near the top of their website.  However, they couldn’t resist putting a story right below it about how White Settlement, TX got its name.  Go figure. 

[Erik88]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

Your argument lacks substance, much like Correia’s qualifications as an expert on self defense. The only thing he’s consistently proven is an ability to appear to be “about that life” without actually being about that life.

He was more tolerable when he stuck to just cataloging videos of critical incidents rather than try to sell himself as anything other than a librarian. 

Sorry you don't like him.  I feel his videos have great lessons. 

[Radlink54]

"Not to take anything away from Mr. Wilson, and I certainly am very glad that he was there and was capable of doing what he did, but let's not hastily put firearms instructors on a pedestal and believe for a moment that being one is the only way that a person could perform similarly in such a dire circumstance."

What you say is true in theory, but this video demonstrates to all of us that, if we want to act as "sheepdogs",  then we need to train consistently and repetitively to replicate the shot this man made.  I don't see Wilson "fumbling" at all on this video, that is the other guy in front with a gun apparently at 6 o'clock .  I am not so sure that most people (and for sure including most law enforcement), could reproduce this shot under the duress of the moment that we see in that video.  A single effective head shot from 20 yards or so on a moving target?  This firearm instructor clearly has better marksmanship than many police officers or citizen gun owners.  It is a standard to aspire to, and I agree that many motivated citizen gun owners should in fact try to emulate.  You cannot get this from static practice at an indoor gun range, and we all need to seek instruction and locations that offer more. 

What is most reassuring is that if Mr. Wilson's initial shot missed, he and the others in place that rise to help, would have still eliminated the evil much sooner and with less loss of life than if the congregation had been the sitting ducks Beto and his supporters would prefer.

[mikegideon]

2 hours ago, TGO David said:

Your argument lacks substance, much like Correia’s qualifications as an expert on self defense. The only thing he’s consistently proven is an ability to appear to be “about that life” without actually being about that life.

He was more tolerable when he stuck to just cataloging videos of critical incidents rather than try to sell himself as anything other than a librarian. 

I think she's hot. That is a she, right?

[deerslayer]

Wilson (on the left side if the screen, not the guy who got shot) reaches for his gun before the bad guy starts shooting and it’s 3-4 seconds before he draws.  He then fires a shot 1.5-2 seconds later.  He was clearly struggling to either get to his gun or to get it out of his holster.  If he intended to hit the bad guy in the head, then kudos to him and his fondness for the front sight.  

Whatever the case, I’m glad Wilson went to church yesterday.  

Edited December 30, 2019 by deerslayer

[Erik88]

13 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Wilson (on the left side if the screen, not the guy who got shot) reaches for his gun before the bad guy starts shooting and it’s 3-4 seconds before he draws.  He then fires a shot 1.5-2 seconds later.  He was clearly struggling to either get to his gun or to get it out of his holster.  If he intended to hit the bad guy in the head, then kudos to him and his fondness for the front sight.  

Whatever the case, I’m glad Wilson went to church yesterday.  

See, I didn't even think he was fumbling. To me, he just didn't look committed. Almost like he thought he could end the situation just by drawing and wasn't in a hurry. Who knows what he actually saw though. His daughter was apparently sitting right in front of him. She was the one that jumped up and went to his aid. It was tough to watch. That family will be in my thoughts tonight.

[deerslayer]

I’m not talking about the guy who got shot.  And I agree—it was tough watching his daughter run to him (the guy who did get shot).  CNN or Fox (can’t remember which) quoted her.  He died either on the way to or at the hospital. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by deerslayer