Shooting issue that only happens with ccw pistol

[One1]

My shield 2.0 doesn't have the heaviest trigger out there, but it's made to be pulled with intent so it's safe for a ccw. Everything else I shoot seems to do what I want it to, all have lighter triggers. I've tried moving my hands, pulling with different parts of my finger, loosening my hands, tightening my hands. Still haven't figured out how to shoot with this gun, with a 5-6 lb trigger without this issue. See the video and tell me something I don't know because I'm blowing 150 rounds per practice and getting nowhere. 

The whole reason I bought a Shield with Crimson Trace was for trigger training (not very useful otherwise) and it's actually turned out to be a good idea. I can see everything I'm doing wrong, but can't seem to solve it. 

 

[quedz]

Try the ole push/pull. Push forward with your gun hand while pulling back with your support hand. It helps me stabilize smaller handguns... 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by hughd
SP

[mike_f]

I am by no means an expert with a pistol, but I had some tips from instructors that have helped me.

You probably have already tried this, but one thing that helped when shooting smaller pistols was to actually get more of my finger past the trigger face.  I had been purposely trying to get just the tip on the trigger face.  Inserting almost to the first joint help reduce the pistol movement when the trigger broke.

Another tip was to think about gripping the pistol like you're squirting water out of your hands (like a water fight in the pool).  I was death-gripping the pistol and evidently that's not what you're supposed to do.

Stolen image to illustrate what I tried to describe:

 

 

 

[Alleycat72]

I would get a different trigger. 

 

[LngRngShtr]

Since you appear to be right handed, I'd start with thumb pressures as you are driving the gun right, perhaps even a sympathetic squeeze of your thumb and right index finger or even "heeling" with the base of your right hand is an option as well 

every issue is magnified via 2 reasons, light weight and smaller size  I'm not sure how far north of 5 Lbs your trigger is but anything over about 4.5 is fine or a software ( mindset/training ) issue 

[Jamie Jackson]

I find my 9mm Shield to be imminently "shootable" for a factory trigger.  Now I can't get TLG's Fast Test to under 7 seconds, but I am an old fart after all LOL. It's one of my favorite carry guns, and I tend to shoot it just as well out to 15 yards as I do any of my "full size" handguns (G17 and G19 in my case).

I can't see that much of your hands in the video you provided, but thank you for the vid @One1. It does look a bit like you may be snatching the trigger, especially on the second press and I tend to agree with @LngRngShtr in that sympathetic pressure from your support hand, or strong hand thumb may be playing a role. Just a WAG on my part though.

If you have the opportunity to get into a class with Randy Harris ( @Cruel Hand Luke ) he could get you straightened out for sure. He's local to you and a regular contributor here. Fantastic instructor and diagnostician as well.

A drill I do frequently and especially did during the 1st few thousand rounds with my Shield was Dot Torture. I found it incredibly helpful in learning the Shield's trigger system. I try an run the Dot Torture at least 2 times a month and on a variety of handguns...it keeps me honest, and humble.

 

You can print the targets at the links provided.

http://pistol-training.com/drills/dot-torture

 

http://pistol-training.com/fastest

 

[Cruel Hand Luke]

We can GUESS at what it is from the video but we really need to see it live with ammo to see exactly what the hands are doing.

We ideally want to apply pressure with the shooting hand front to back like gripping a pair of pliers or a multi tool. And then the support hand applies side to side pressure like a "C clamp" and once the pressure is applied it does not change. No "milking the cow" with the fingers. The only movement should be the trigger finger acting in isolation from all the others and we want the pressure on the trigger to be applied STRAIGHT BACK. But again it is easier to see exactly what is going on with your grip and trigger press in person.   

Edited December 16, 2019 by Cruel Hand Luke

[DaveTN]

It appears to me you are not smoothly pulling the trigger; you are jerking it. You can’t slow that pull way to down to a very slow and gentle pull, and get rid of that jump when the trigger snaps? You are pretty steady until that trigger breaks and then you are jumping a bunch.

How far off are your 10 yard shots at the range from your point of aim. How are the groups when you keep the same point of aim?

The next time you are at the range, pick out a good shooter and ask them if they would give it a try. Most shooters are usually friendly and willing to help. That might give you a better idea if it’s you or the gun.

The Shield is a belly gun, not a target gun. But its possible you got one with a terrible trigger and will have to replace it. After having several M&P’s with “acceptable” triggers I bought a full size M&P CORE 9L that was sold as a “Performance Center” gun. It had a terrible trigger in it, S&W had me send it in twice, only for them to tell me nothing was wrong with it and do nothing. I mean really terrible. It felt like rolling a square rock across a parking lot. I had to put an Apex trigger in it.

[peejman]

Where is your finger relative to the hinge?  

I found that my natural finger position was right on the hinge pivot instead of below it.  Sometimes it wouldn't pivot fully and caused me to jerk the trigger. I installed an Apex bladed safety trigger and the problem went away. 

[TGO David]

7 hours ago, Cruel Hand Luke said:

We can GUESS at what it is from the video but we really need to see it live with ammo to see exactly what the hands are doing.

We ideally want to apply pressure with the shooting hand front to back like gripping a pair of pliers or a multi tool. And then the support hand applies side to side pressure like a "C clamp" and once the pressure is applied it does not change. No "milking the cow" with the fingers. The only movement should be the trigger finger acting in isolation from all the others and we want the pressure on the trigger to be applied STRAIGHT BACK. But again it is easier to see exactly what is going on with your grip and trigger press in person.   

 

Randy's description / diagnosis is what I have seen fix this condition for 99.9999999% of the people I've witnessed suffering from this, myself included, over the years.

Another way of describing the fix is to "give the gun more middle finger from your dominant hand".  Which is to say, grip it tighter with your middle finger than you are the others on your dominant hand.  But that pliers analogy is damned genius.

 

[Sidecarist]

I've found that lasers arent very good training tools. The brain focuses on keeping the dot still and you wind up not using the sights. The effect is like a high power scope, it magnifies any movement and you wind up chasing it. Visually its confusing. 

Randys advice is spot on, the only thing I would add is turn the laser off. Get the fundamentals down pat without it. Use the sights like you do with your other pistols. 

If you want an electronic training tool try the Mantis X.  I find it very useful.

Good luck!

[One1]

I'm reading, Thanks all. I won't be able to go shoot for a week, but I'm trying to work this out till then. Like I say I've been moving my hands and finger everywhere before deciding I can't fix it and seeking help. Oddly only this gun and it's something about the trigger. I don't want to change it though since it's for ccw only. I'm only doing targets because...... Well you have to shoot targets. I'm also not getting closer than 25 feet because the TN test is 7 yds so that's about where I'm staying for practice. 

I'll get a second video shortly. 

 

I did learn a lot from these guys up near Nashville by watching them talk about holding issues and results. 

 

https://youtu.be/hWSK1PNOyKs

[TGO David]

Smaller pistols are ironically harder to shoot accurately, as you're experiencing, because they just don't give you a whole lot of grip surface to work with.  They are a lot like a J-frame Smith and Wesson revolver in that sense.

I did some digging and found a video that talks about what Cruel Hand Luke was discussing, and gives it to you in a visual format.

 

[hipower]

2 hours ago, TGO David said:

Smaller pistols are ironically harder to shoot accurately, as you're experiencing, because they just don't give you a whole lot of grip surface to work with.  They are a lot like a J-frame Smith and Wesson revolver in that sense.

I did some digging and found a video that talks about what Cruel Hand Luke was discussing, and gives it to you in a visual format.

 

Thanks for this. I found it a good refresher course. All too often we/I can get complacent in our shooting; especially the guys like me who don't have a set regimine of practice or competition.

[miller_man]

Going as slow and gentle as you can, can you get a click with no movement? That should be your first step.

 

Can't really see well, but on the 2nd press - if you just look at your hands, I think I can see the whole gun move. Might take a video from the side just watching your hands.

 

 

 

[One1]

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by One1

[One1]

So this came about

https://mp-pistol.com/mp-talk/71136-dry-fire-issues.html

 

I feel better now. It IS this gun. Now, it’s still up to me to learn to control it, but just knowing owners are saying this gun is their only one to do it makes me feel like i can better approach finding a technique instead of blaming me for being faulty to begin with.