technicality?

[bteague2]

thanks to TN's laws restriction the sale of liquor on sundays before noon. does that mean you can carry in restaurants that normaly sell alcohol as long as you are out before noon?

[Guest Hyaloid]

I wouldn't interpret the law that way myself.

[The Rabbi]

I would think it is any place where alcohol is sold for consumption on premises, regardless of whether alcohol is actually being sold or not.

But does anyone really want to open carry into Applebee's at 11AM Sun morning and find out??

[Marswolf]

Yeah, the laws doesn't say it applies only while alcohol is being served.

[molonlabetn]

Grey areas like that will rarely work in your favor... doesn't sound like a loop-hole to me.

Even in the best scenario, you'll still be arrested and charged, even if you are eventually aquitted.

I would rather work to repeal the restriction on carrying where liquor is served, across the board...

[shaftbass]

Hey guys.

The speed limit signs are placed hundreds of yards apart.

Does this mean I can go 120 between them?!?!?!?!

[Marswolf]

39-17-1305. Possession of firearm where alcoholic beverages are served. -

(a) It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for on premises consumption.

It says "are served" not "are being served."

Class A Misdemeanor 11 months 29 days $2,500

But note that the building must be "open to the public." Anyone have a definition? Can you pack at the VFW since you have to be a member or guest to go there?

[TGO David]

Hey guys.

The speed limit signs are placed hundreds of yards apart.

Does this mean I can go 120 between them?!?!?!?!

Good point.

[Guest db99wj]

Hey guys.

The speed limit signs are placed hundreds of yards apart.

Does this mean I can go 120 between them?!?!?!?!

I bet that argument wouldn't work in court! But indeed, a very good point!

[robbiev]

But note that the building must be "open to the public." Anyone have a definition? Can you pack at the VFW since you have to be a member or guest to go there?

In my opinion, it would be legal to carry there (assuming entry to the VFW is STRICTLY member or guest of member). I don't think that qualifies as "open to the public."

[fury2neon]

In Chattanooga is it still the law that all businesses except restaraunts are closed till noon on Sunday? I know several places I have tried to go to were closed at 11:00 AM, even places that are normally open 24hrs like Walmart.

[Marswolf]

I did a search on TCA and found no definition for "open to the public." I think it therefore means that you can just walk in from the street without passing "Go" or collecting $200.

[saintsfanbrian]

I would think that Private Clubs like say the local "Country Club" would not be off limits to carry while you are in their bar. The problem then comes with the by-laws of the club as to whether or not firearms are allowed.

[Marswolf]

Note that you can't be "under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance" while packing at any time or location per 39-17-1321.

[Guest Hyaloid]

Gods this is SO frustrating... the eternal debate of can we?, should we?, what if I?, how about here?....

Wasn't there something about, "shall not be infringed" written in some obscure, rarely referenced or read document? Sure would make things easier if we actually stayed within our founding principles.

[Marswolf]

I agree totally with you Hyaloid. Unfortunately I don't think most of the American people agree with us. They want some restrictions on citizens possession and use of weapons.

The reality is that we are going to have some restrictions. I just want those restrictions to be as few as possible.

[molonlabetn]

Well, to look at it another way...

Rights are more often given up voluntarily than infringed. No-one else is responsible for preserving my rights, but me. I will exercise them, and do whatever is necessary to retain them. There is no God-given or documented promise that exercising ones' rights would be easy or cheap. The struggle for them is only undertaken by those who can and will. Those who cannot stand up for their own rights individually should find strength in numbers... But those who will not, have no right to expect others to fight for them. As it stands now, no individual could stand up to the resistance to our liberty posed by the elements currently aligned against them. So, regardless of whether or not some of you intend to exercise certain freedoms which the rest of us do, it is in the best interests of all to uniformly stand against any and all imposition.

Whether it is against restriction on specific areas we can carry (regardless if you individually intend to do so)

Whether it is against restriction on specific methods of carry (regardless if you individually intend to do so)

Whether it is against restriction on what, specifically, we can carry (regardless if you individually intend to do so)

The right of self-preservation is essential, I don't want to be around people who wish to restrict that, even in their own domain... but if I am invited to be around them, they should hold no sway over my life. If that is unacceptable, let them rescind the invitation. Doing so should be viewed as being 'closed to the public', since, any business/property which can pick and choose who to allow does not cater to the whole public... only eligible members.

If a bar is off-limits to certain people whose rights are intact, they remove the element of personal responsibility from those who do enter.

Free-will (even to do something inadvisable), is an irrevocable part of the human psyche. Punishment for causing harm through irresponsible actions should be the only social control.

[The Rabbi]

Whew. Someone needs a drink or something. If that isnt a violation of the rules and spirit of this board, I dont know what is.

The law seems pretty simple to me. But maybe I'm just simple-minded.

[DaveTN]

I’m sorry but I couldn’t help that.

Man… I don’t know what is going on with this forum today… must be something in the water.

You are on an internet forum. You will quickly see that there are people posting their interpretation of laws here that will make you shake your head and wonder how they find their way to work in the morning. From what I have read RBC isn’t one of them, I just think he was being funny. However I’m not trying to make excuses for him, I’m sure he can deal with that himself.

I’m a former Police Officer and have been told in short order that I don’t understand chit about Tennessee law or the Constitution of the United States. So with that in mind …. My interpretation of the law is that the legislators do not want you carrying in an establishment that is licensed to serve liquor on the premises. My interpretation of their intent is that they are not interested in getting into whether or not you were drinking or whether or not any liquor was being served. But as Dennis Miller would say… I could be wrong.

Yes drinking will help. I’m always much smarter when I’m drinking.

[Schadenfreude]

I used to wonder why there were so many people packing in our local applebees & getting to talk to the local law enforcement I don't know the outcome of any of them but when my better half went to her permit class one taught by a local LEO I personally saw him tell everyone there that they could carry right into applebees - all CCW classes are definitely not created equal!!!!

[Marswolf]

Yep, unfortunately some instructors don't understand the law. That's why it's important to read the code yourself.

[Guest ProguninTN]

I used to wonder why there were so many people packing in our local applebees & getting to talk to the local law enforcement I don't know the outcome of any of them but when my better half went to her permit class one taught by a local LEO I personally saw him tell everyone there that they could carry right into applebees - all CCW classes are definitely not created equal!!!!

That instructor could have his certification revoked if he does not teach the law. Maybe he falsely believes he is exempt due to being an LEO. From T.C.A. 39-17-1350

The authority conferred by this section shall not extend to a law enforcement officer:

Who is not engaged in the actual discharge of official duties as a law enforcement officer while within the confines of an establishment where beer or alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on-the-premises;

If you see an officer eating while armed, he/she is breaking the law. (The exemption applies only when present for official business.) LEO's abusing their authority. All the more reason to repeal the restaurant ban.

[dralarms]

That instructor could have his certification revoked if he does not teach the law. Maybe he falsely believes he is exempt due to being an LEO. From T.C.A. 39-17-1350

The authority conferred by this section shall not extend to a law enforcement officer:

Who is not engaged in the actual discharge of official duties as a law enforcement officer while within the confines of an establishment where beer or alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on-the-premises;

If you see an officer eating while armed, he/she is breaking the law. (The exemption applies only when present for official business.) LEO's abusing their authority. All the more reason to repeal the restaurant ban.

Yea the local class here did the same thing. I did a little research and showed him he was wrong. He needs to call everyone in that class that he told that hockey to and correct himself. He could be in big crap city if someone was to tape the class for "training purposes" and it find it's way to the state.

[Guest ProguninTN]

Yea the local class here did the same thing. I did a little research and showed him he was wrong. He needs to call everyone in that class that he told that hockey to and correct himself. He could be in big crap city if someone was to tape the class for "training purposes" and it find it's way to the state.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Also, I doubt being misinformed by the instructor would be a defense. (It's up to us to double check the TN Code.) Yea for the internet.

[dralarms]

That's exactly what I was thinking. Also, I doubt being misinformed by the instructor would be a defense. (It's up to us to double check the TN Code.) Yea for the internet.

EXactly, however I will admit that I have in the past placed my BUG in my pocket and went in anyway. While I travel and sometimes it's in a "different" part of town. (Don't mean bad but the haris stand up on the back of my neck). I figure IF I get caught (which ain't likely) I'd rather explain to a judge why I had it than explain (or not even be able to) to my family why someone I love got hurt while I had the means to protect them.

We need to start NOW so we can try and get that bill passed next session.