Gov. Bill Lee to proclaim Oct. 10 day of prayer & fasting

[Dirtshooter]

My pastor told me about this last Thursday and I forgot to add it to the sight. Believe it or not there is already somebody that is opposing this. I believe that this is a very commendable thing that our Governor is going to proclaim. For those that don't believe in prayer, then make it like any other day. But for the majority that believe in prayer, I am happy to say to people from outside the state that our Governor has seen that God answers prayers. One of my favorite verses is 2nd Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. Folks I truly believe that part of the reason that all of the school shootings have taken place is because we allowed the liberal left to basically ban God from our schools. Won't you join in praying for our state and country? This great country is full of hate right now, and the only thing to combat hate is Love.

[btq96r]

I'll bite...why does prayer and fasting need to come with governmental encouragement?  If Gov. Lee wanted to encourage this, he has a platform, he doesn't need to use the state level proclamation.  I'm all for people praying and fasting as required by their faith, or as they wish to do as individuals for their own spiritual reasons.  I'm just 100% against the government involvement, no matter how benign, because I believe government has zero place in matters of faith.

It's also pretty Christian centered.  Jews won't be able to participate in the fasting, what with Oct. 10th coming immediately after they already will have done for Yom Kippur...thought that could be an oversight.   And I'm sure we won't get spooked at all if we see Muslims openly engaging in their 5x daily prayers on this day.

[DWARREN123]

Government does not need to do this. Let the churches and families do this and keep the gov out of it.

[MacGyver]

Mind you, I come from a skeptical tradition. 

But, the argument we’d make would be along the lines of prayer doesn’t belong in schools because we neither need nor want the government teaching our children how to pray.  

 

[DaveTN]

I see no problem with it. He’s not suggesting incarcerating people that don’t pray or that don’t believe in prayer, is he?

I’ll pray; but I won’t be fasting.

He may see what he is doing as being required by his faith.

[gregintenn]

7 hours ago, btq96r said:

I'll bite...why does prayer and fasting need to come with governmental encouragement?  If Gov. Lee wanted to encourage this, he has a platform, he doesn't need to use the state level proclamation.  I'm all for people praying and fasting as required by their faith, or as they wish to do as individuals for their own spiritual reasons.  I'm just 100% against the government involvement, no matter how benign, because I believe government has zero place in matters of faith.

It's also pretty Christian centered.  Jews won't be able to participate in the fasting, what with Oct. 10th coming immediately after they already will have done for Yom Kippur...thought that could be an oversight.   And I'm sure we won't get spooked at all if we see Muslims openly engaging in their 5x daily prayers on this day.

I would say that while the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution prevents the U.S.A. from enacting a state sponsored religion, It has no bearing whatsoever on Tennessee. I expect you know this, but a good percentage do not. I do, however, understand your concern.

I firmly believe that if we as a nation do not turn back toward God, we will soon become another third world country. I do not think a proclaimed "day of prayer and fasting" will cure our societal ills, but it could be a small step in the right direction. I condone the Governor's show of concern on the matter.

[deerslayer]

"Prayer doesn't belong in schools."  Why not?  Forced participation obviously doesn't and the government doesn't need to teach it, but I think the state sponsored religion thing doesn't mean students can't be allowed to pray.  The "minute of silence" was supposed to remedy this, but the atheists claim that it exists specifically to allow prayer and therefore endorses religion.  Allowing religion and teaching/endorsing religion are two different things.    

[btq96r]

2 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I would say that while the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution prevents the U.S.A. from enacting a state sponsored religion, It has no bearing whatsoever on Tennessee. I expect you know this, but a good percentage do not. I do, however, understand your concern.

It has every bearing on Tennessee.  The first amendment has been incorporated since 1947, so it's just as applicable to the state governments as it is the federal government with regards to religion.

[gregintenn]

56 minutes ago, btq96r said:

It has every bearing on Tennessee.  The first amendment has been incorporated since 1947, so it's just as applicable to the state governments as it is the federal government with regards to religion.

Serious question. What are you referring to happening in 1947?

I understand the U.S. Constitution limits the authority of the federal government. Perhaps I am about to learn something.

[btq96r]

21 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Serious question. What are you referring to happening in 1947?

I understand the U.S. Constitution limits the authority of the federal government. Perhaps I am about to learn something.

Should have been more specific to say that the establishment clause of the first amendment was incorporated to the states in 1947.  The first amendment being so wide ranging in topics was incorporated in different parts...but for the purposes of this thread, the Everson case in '47 set things up. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everson_v._Board_of_Education

[gregintenn]

10 minutes ago, btq96r said:

Should have been more specific to say that the establishment clause of the first amendment was incorporated to the states in 1947.  The first amendment being so wide ranging in topics was incorporated in different parts...but for the purposes of this thread, the Everson case in '47 set things up. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everson_v._Board_of_Education

Thanks for the education. I was unaware of this case. On it’s face, I believe it was a bad decision however.

[toby1304]

Awesome job Governor Lee !

[Parrothead]

Let me wager into this lightly. Assuming no tax dollars are spent promoting. What’s the harm?

Also, elected officials are in office to represent the majority without oppressing the minority. Seems like this passes the sniff test. You don’t have to participate. The man promoting it was elected to office by the majority of the state (allegedly). So, who offended? Other than the always offended. 

[pop pop]

"Kudos" for Bill Lee.

[btq96r]

10 hours ago, Parrothead said:

Assuming no tax dollars are spent promoting. What’s the harm?

Doesn't take a budgetary line item for tax dollars to be spent.

Gubernatorial proclamations aren't written on lunch napkins and hung on the bulletin board, they take staff work to prep, and the release is usually done with some kind of public event.  That's work which will be put in by employees on the state payroll, who could otherwise be administrating the business of the state.  Even Gov. Lee has spent time on this that could otherwise be put to use, ya know, governing. 

 

20 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Thanks for the education. I was unaware of this case. On it’s face, I believe it was a bad decision however.

The decision itself, or incorporating the First Amendment to the states?  There were a lot of upset anti-gun folks when the McDonald case kept incorporation of the Bill of Rights going by extending the Heller protections to the states.

[gregintenn]

18 minutes ago, btq96r said:

Doesn't take a budgetary line item for tax dollars to be spent.

Gubernatorial proclamations aren't written on lunch napkins and hung on the bulletin board, they take staff work to prep, and the release is usually done with some kind of public event.  That's work which will be put in by employees on the state payroll, who could otherwise be administrating the business of the state.  Even Gov. Lee has spent time on this that could otherwise be put to use, ya know, governing. 

 

The decision itself, or incorporating the First Amendment to the states?  There were a lot of upset anti-gun folks when the McDonald case kept incorporation of the Bill of Rights going by extending the Heller protections to the states.

That’s what I like about you. You challenge my thinking. If one’s ideas are never challenged, he won’t ever learn much. Thanks.

[4Freedom]

As much as I staunchly support the freedom of religion and believe it is worth dying to protect such a freedom, I do not support a government that enforces their version of religion upon the masses and feel it is every bit a violation of our constitutional rights as stripping away our 2nd Amendment rights to keep and bear arms.

I am also not a Christian and my relatives in Europe were massacred because of their religion (not being the correct type of faith), including my grandmother's village which was exterminated during the Nazi invasion of Belarus. 

One of the things I cherish about America is that I do not live in a theocratic nation like Iran, Jesuit Spain or monarchy like governments that enforce both a worship of the state and specific type of religion.  If America becomes such a nation, I would have to re-think if this is truly the America I wish to be in.  Of course, many of my relatives fled the Soviet Union as early as the 60s. My grandmother worked hard with diplomats and government officials to help them flee when the Iron Curtain starting collapsing after Khrushchev's leadership.  They came to America because they wanted freedom to practice their religion, as well as not being bound to a corrupt and self-destruction economic system (communism) that left them poor, hungry and struggling to survive.   However, they had to keep their religious beliefs secret and could be imprisoned or executed for challenging the state in any way, including practicing religion which was illegal.   Therefore, I can say state institutionalized religion or enforced atheism or both two evils with many similarities.

I am also probably not so popular being a more small-government, Libertarian-tilted Republican.   However, if a Governor wants a day of prayer, it should be a prayer where all backgrounds are represented.  Not that I believe any government should enforce praying and fasting as is done in Islamic or in the old Medieval or old Christian theocratic type countries.

Edited October 5, 2019 by 4Freedom

[QuackerSmacker]

There is a lot of over-reaction here about this.  The Governor's proclamation is neutral in terms of any particular religion.  And we have a National Day of Prayer, which is May 2.   Instead of being afraid of people praying, or (God Forbid!) a few state employees spending a very few minutes on this (which is speculation anyway) .........maybe we should focus on actual threats to our God-given rights (such as self defense---anyone want to argue with that?) , and the Second Amendment, instead of getting all worked up about recognizing a day of prayer.  We have days in this country declared for EVERYTHING!   If you're worked up about a day of prayer, oh.........never mind, there's just no getting through to you.  
 

[4Freedom]

2 hours ago, QuackerSmacker said:

There is a lot of over-reaction here about this.  The Governor's proclamation is neutral in terms of any particular religion.  And we have a National Day of Prayer, which is May 2.   Instead of being afraid of people praying, or (God Forbid!) a few state employees spending a very few minutes on this (which is speculation anyway) .........maybe we should focus on actual threats to our God-given rights (such as self defense---anyone want to argue with that?) , and the Second Amendment, instead of getting all worked up about recognizing a day of prayer.  We have days in this country declared for EVERYTHING!   If you're worked up about a day of prayer, oh.........never mind, there's just no getting through to you.  
 

 

I pray frequently and I am praying more now than ever that we don't lose our 2nd Amendment Rights.   I'm all for us praying that God (or whatever Higher Power/Belief you have), will prevent us from losing these very precious rights that are both suppose to be guaranteed in our Constitution , as well as being what I feel is the God given right of Self-Defense.   Amen to that!

[TGO David]

*sigh*

George Washington called for a national day of prayer and thanksgiving on October 3, 1789.  President Adams continued the practice, as did President Madison.  It happened again in 1952 when President Truman signed a bill proclaiming a National Day of Prayer must be declared by each subsequent president at a date of his choosing.

Reagan and George H Bush both hosted special National Day of Prayer events at the White House.  Clinton issued proclamations but never hosted an event.  George W Bush's first president act was the announcement of a National Day of Prayer and he held events at the White House each year of his presidency.

Even Barack Obama issued annual proclamations, but never held an event at the White House.

 

This isn't some wild-haired creation of Governor Lee and he absolutely isn't forcing anyone to participate.  That's what true separation of church and state means, by the way.  That the government can't mandate a religion to you or mandate participation in a religion.  I'm always simultaneously amused and nauseated by the amateur Constitutional scholars that come out of the woodwork to "correct us" on whatever Article or Amendment is chaffing their butts at the moment.

I fully support what Governor Lee is doing here.  I don't know if I can pull off an all-day fast given the fact that I often trend very hypoglycemic (better than diabetic, I guess) but I'll skip at least one or two meals and will definitely be praying for our state, our nation, and our elected representatives.

 

Edited to Add...

My church is organizing the October 10th event at Municipal Auditorium in Nashville.  Governor Lee attends the church, so I guess I should offer some disclosure there even though it seems kind of silly that I feel like I should.  The State of Tennessee isn't behind the event at Municipal, as far as I am aware.  Just my church and other churches joining in with us.

Everyone's welcome to attend. 

 

 

[A.J. Holst]

A politician openly stating the source of his moral compass.and personal lifestyle choice.

2 hours ago, TGO David said:

Everyone's welcome to attend

 

 

[btq96r]

On 10/5/2019 at 7:38 AM, TGO David said:

George Washington called for a national day of prayer and thanksgiving on October 3, 1789.  President Adams continued the practice, as did President Madison.

Thomas Jefferson is notably absent from that list...his views have the right of it, IMO.

 

 

[DaveTN]

15 minutes ago, btq96r said:

Thomas Jefferson is notably absent from that list...his views have the right of it, IMO.

Nope, Jefferson’s religious beliefs were unorthodox and he wanted to pick and choose what he believed from the Bible. So most of us don’t give 2  what his religious beliefs were.

This has zero to do with separation of church and state.

Oops almost forgot.....IMO.

[A.J. Holst]

State religion caused the deaths of millions during the 17th century.

Protestant Sweden, in the pay of Catholic France, hiring both Catholic and Protestant mercenaries to fight Catholic Hapsburgs.

Kill em all, let God sort them out.

Fast forward to the UK, the founders realized the head of .gov as well as head of the recoginized, legal religion was not a good mix.

[Wdodd]

 

Gov. Lee ..... apparently “let no good deed go unpunished” is factual.