Springfield Armory's new P365 clone (aka Hellcat)

[jgrauman]

On 9/25/2019 at 8:08 PM, TGO David said:

It's a crying shame that XDs and XD-S's never hold up well under hard use.  I've personally had an XD Tactical fail on me in a 2-day defensive pistol class with less than a 500rd count for the entire two days.  Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics has been tracking XD failures in his classes for a while now and way back in 2017 had already counted 20 failures in his classes.

No telling how many he's seen since then, if he even allows them in his classes now.

I'll pass.

Can't speak to the newer generation of the xd, but I have an original xd sc .40 for the last 13 years or so. Closes to 5k rounds through it and not a hick up, it's a tank and my go to carry 

[Garufa]

Somebody should tell the Knoxville Police department that XDS’ are not up to some’s standards. They are trying to trade in their inventory of confiscated guns for 60 of them in .45.

[TGO David]

20 hours ago, Garufa said:

Somebody should tell the Knoxville Police department that XDS’ are not up to some’s standards. They are trying to trade in their inventory of confiscated guns for 60 of them in .45.

It would be really interesting to hear what logic drove them to the XD when Glock practically owns the LE market and the S&W M&P is usually second on the podium with Sig still getting the occasional contract.

If it has anything to do with the "grip safety" of the XD, it is going to speak volumes about the level of Fuddery inside that PD.

[Garufa]

13 minutes ago, TGO David said:

It would be really interesting to hear what logic drove them to the XD when Glock practically owns the LE market and the S&W M&P is usually second on the podium with Sig still getting the occasional contract.

If it has anything to do with the "grip safety" of the XD, it is going to speak volumes about the level of Fuddery inside that PD.

I have no idea but I guess it’s for detective types and/or backup purposes.

A couple of years ago KPD dumped all their Glock .40’s for Sig 22n’s (I forget which model) in .45, along with some make of 1911 for the tactical guys.

Maybe they like the slimness of the XDS?

Edited September 28, 2019 by Garufa

[AuEagle]

I know of an XD-Standard 4"-9mm that as of 2015 had over 30,000 Rounds through it with no breakdowns. Just normal cleaning & lubing. It was a range gun & many different people shot it with everything from Wolf Steel Case to Premium Hollow Points. As far as I know it's still going.

BTW. It's NOT the one I have for sale.

[southernasylum]

On 9/25/2019 at 12:22 PM, felinesNfreedom said:

What!?! No grip zone or grip safety. GTFO!

Yeah, I was wondering how people were gonna know where to hold that thing from!

[billyblazes]

I love my Springfield 1911 but their two XD guns I had were complete turds.  That was even after being sent back to the factory (one of them was swnt back twice) for feeding issues.  I was happy to sell those two guns with full disclosure that they gave me fits.

I do have the Sig 365 and 365XL.  Both have performed flawlessly.  I'll stick with them and not bother even taking the Springfield striker fired hellcat for a test drive.

[TGO David]

On 9/25/2019 at 12:22 PM, felinesNfreedom said:

What!?! No grip zone or grip safety. GTFO!

 

2 hours ago, southernasylum said:

Yeah, I was wondering how people were gonna know where to hold that thing from!

You will appreciate the fact that Springfield Armory has gotten tired enough of our jokes about this that they are firing back at people on Instagram. 

 

[Moped]

I love my .45 XDs, which I traded a practically new M&P 9 compact (Gen 1) for.  I’ve had no issues with it and it’s in my carry rotation.

This Hellcat has my interest though! I like the weight and size.

[swiley383]

I have a XD 45 that I bought just after the Clinton ban expired. I actually when’t to to buy a 1911 and walked out with the XD. Lots of rounds through it everything from factory stuff to my hand loads including my first attempt at hand loads. No major problems except hand loads that were to light. Shoots good with all my current loads. Still need a 1911.

[felinesNfreedom]

On 9/28/2019 at 6:38 PM, TGO David said:

 

You will appreciate the fact that Springfield Armory has gotten tired enough of our jokes about this that they are firing back at people on Instagram. 

 

I can appreciate that.

 

Do I have to be able to read Croatian to figure out the manual???

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by felinesNfreedom

[hipower]

21 hours ago, swiley383 said:

Still need a 1911.

Yes...you do. Everyone should have at least one. lol

My father is probably grinning and shaking his head at that line. Growing up, I just didn't like or want one.

I have a few, and still have his Remington Rand competition 45 he brought home from Korea.

[BHunted]

I finally got a chance to have the specs up on side by side with the P365. WTF did they do? Just rob Sigs frame and size?

Other than the extra round they have and the optical option, there is nothing worth going from my Sig P365 to the Hellcat...

In case you haven't looked yet, they are not in stores that I know of and the idiots on Gunbroker are trying to rape people to sell them. Some twit is selling a lightly used once for $800 bux. They all need to be bitch slapped. The buyers must be in the same clan that buy brand new Iphones when they come out and camp in lines the night before. Geezus! 

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=springfield armory hellcat&PageSize=24&Sort=4&View=1

</rantoff>

[Chucktshoes]

5 minutes ago, BHunted said:

I finally got a chance to have the specs up on side by side with the P365. WTF did they do? Just rob Sigs frame and size?

Other than the extra round they have and the optical option, there is nothing worth going from my Sig P365 to the Hellcat...

In case you haven't looked yet, they are not in stores that I know of and the idiots on Gunbroker are trying to rape people to sell them. Some twit is selling a lightly used once for $800 bux. They all need to be bitch slapped. The buyers must be in the same clan that buy brand new Iphones when they come out and camp in lines the night before. Geezus! 

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=springfield armory hellcat&PageSize=24&Sort=4&View=1

</rantoff>

I don’t see why anyone would move laterally from one to the other, but it does present another option for the high capacity, baby 9.

[Defender]

23 minutes ago, BHunted said:

I finally got a chance to have the specs up on side by side with the P365. WTF did they do? Just rob Sigs frame and size?

Other than the extra round they have and the optical option, there is nothing worth going from my Sig P365 to the Hellcat...

In case you haven't looked yet, they are not in stores that I know of and the idiots on Gunbroker are trying to rape people to sell them. Some twit is selling a lightly used once for $800 bux. They all need to be bitch slapped. The buyers must be in the same clan that buy brand new Iphones when they come out and camp in lines the night before. Geezus! 

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=springfield armory hellcat&PageSize=24&Sort=4&View=1

</rantoff>

I think Sig has an optical option for the 365XL...

[KahrMan]

 

[Erich]

I received an update email so it prompted me to update here. Brownell's sent out notice they are shutting down pre-orders due to demand and their current backorder volume. No expected dates unfortunately.

As much as I avoid being a beta tester, seems for the price and more faith in Springfield than Sig, its a no lose proposition if I'm not fond of it.  I ordered one last week from Brownell's with 10% off, no tax and free shipping. After the 5% cashback from gear-obsession, $453 before transfer fees for the OSP version.

I was thinking of the new P365 SAS as well. Too hard to justify $130 more for a ported gun to deal with the potential or having to work with customer service hassles. May end up with one at some point after they've been out for a while.

[Guest BCR#1]

On 9/25/2019 at 3:54 PM, Erich said:

 

 Probably because I like Sigs more than I should and they are the bottom of the QC barrel IMHO. I never bought a P365

 

 

Really Eric? What model's are you referring to?

Bill

[Erich]

Bill, I wish it was really that localized, but unfortunately I mean that in a general sense. My opinion (qualifying it as such) is based on the numerous pistols, caliber x-change kits, optics, and uppers I've purchased in the last several years.  I've noticed a downward trend with increasing QC slips, say in the 3-4 years.

Over that time, having worked with their customer service, their attitude seems to show a paradigm shift coinciding with the higher occurrence of production issues. I am left thinking that retail customers are not as much a concern and Sig's focus has been on product development and chasing .gov contracts. They want more market, and high throughput at all costs seems to be the mantra.

The biggest thing is they seem to want to justify anything you find if they can manage to get a gun to go bang before sticking it in a box. That is not to say they all have issues, they just don't pull obvious problems and send them out hoping customers don't care under the current US regime and standards.

Outside cosmetic blunders and sights that are pretty far off (pet peeves that say qc to me) on the more serious side a P229 went back with a framed machined off so the locking block was not square to the bore axis, and 320 with a FCU not stamped and cut to allow the trigger bar to clear at the rear of its travel, a SP2022 with a barrel feed ramp not finish machined to remove the hard edge at the throat transitioned that I called the Jam-matic. The list goes on, but  I'll spare you

Of course I have had a number that were fine. But I have rejected more at dealers to avoid headaches after dealing with their CS on some of the above. Some of the things I have been told over the phone would be considered pretty shameful. Twice I thought to myself, did you really say that out loud. Specifically around their "gunsmiths" and standards in their repair shop. To the point I would never send a gun back to Sig unless I absolutely had to.

If they stood behind their product like S&W, Ruger, or Springfield (I am sure others) do, I could forgive them their letting production QC goes. But they just want to argue and not take care of clear issues. I think their older stuff before they tried to gain large market share did not seem as prone to issues. Even hardcore Sig fans on their dedicate forum seem to be noting some of this nowadays.

I've currently own classics, a 1911, 320's as well as romeo optics and a range finder.  I love the 229 and 320. I want to like them as a US company, but things have to change. IMO.

 

 

 

[peejman]

1 hour ago, Erich said:

They want more market, and high throughput at all costs seems to be the mantra.

21st century manufacturing 101. 

[Guest BCR#1]

That's good to know Eric. I'm a Sig snob but all of mine are old school W. German guns (4) except my 229 .40 S&W (04) and M11A1 (13). All run flawlessly and most have 5K or more through them. I have no desire to own the 3 or 9 series striker fired guns.

Bill

[Erich]

The German Sigs are great without a doubt. I think its pretty safe to say most older versions for alot of makes are more desirable.

Not sure if you've tried the 320. Took me most of 25 years to break down and try a couple striker guns, kicking and screaming. But the 320's are very nice shotting even though they have a Sig (high) barrel profile. The modularity is really nice, not the gimmick I originally dismissed it as. Most days I shoot it better than my 229

[Guest BCR#1]

I've shot a few glocks and wasn't impressed at all. I doubt a 320 would be any different.

Bill

[E4 No More]

1 hour ago, BCR#1 said:

I've shot a few glocks and wasn't impressed at all. I doubt a 320 would be any different.

Bill

IMHO they are different. I had a Glock 22 as a service pistol, a 29 that I gave to my son because it was too small for my hands even with a magazine extension, and I have a 20. I also have two P320's in full and carry sizes in the .357 Sig caliber. For me, the P320 is much more comfortable to shoot than any Glock I've owned. I keep the 20 just because I wanted a 10mm for fun. I carry the Sig carry unless it's the summertime. I am anxious to get my hands on a P365 SAS with a mag extension to see how well that fits my hand for summertime carry.

[Smiley]

I for one can’t wait to shoot the hellcat.  I’m a Walter guy.  And wish walther would come out with something similar.  Love my PPSM2 but for size and round count.  I just want to shoot it and decide.