Stand Your Ground

[Omega]

Seems the "good guy with a gun" ideology is working.  It defies logic when you hear the family try and defend the criminals and say that they did not have to be killed, specially when they were shooting first themselves.  What did they expect to happen, that the victims just take it?

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article235158072.html

 

Gunfire that left three masked teenagers dead in Conyers, Georgia, is being investigated as a possible “stand your ground” case, according to local authorities.

Rockdale County deputies responded to reports of shots fired at a home in the Atlanta suburb shortly after 4 a.m. Monday, according to the Rockdale County Sheriff’s Office.

When deputies arrived, they discovered “three males with gunshot wounds and began administering first aid,” the Sheriff’s Office said. Two were hospitalized and died, while the third was pronounced dead at the scene of the shooting. Those killed were a pair of brothers, 15 and 16, and another 15-year-old, WSB-TV reported.

“At this time, it is known that all three males that were shot do not live at the residence and arrived at the residence with their faces covered,” deputies said.

Deputies said that “the investigation is still in the preliminary stages and the homeowner is currently being questioned as to the details of the shooting.”

Investigators said “it could possibly be a stand your ground type of case,” according to WSB-TV.

 

https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/conyers/conyers-attempted-robbery/85-d344d527-7110-4d98-b06e-d655c76c7ab0

CONYERS, Ga. — Family members identified two of the three teens killed after authorities claim the teens were involved in an attempted armed robbery in Rockdale County early Monday morning.

The Rockdale County Sheriff's Office said the teens, two 16-year-old boys and a 15-year-old, were killed during an exchange of gunfire. A Sheriff's spokesman said late Monday afternoon that the teens were attempting to rob three people in the front yard of a home, and one of the teens opened fire on the alleged robbery victims. 

The incident happened just after 4 a.m. off Flat Shoals Road on White Oak Court in Conyers.

Family members identified two of the teens killed as 16-year-old Isaiah Reid and his 15-year-old sibling Jaime Hernandez.

“They was loving, they was brothers," said LaShawn Thornton, their aunt, Monday evening, speaking of how close they were to each other.

Rockdale County Sheriff Eric Levett told 11Alive News earlier Monday that the three teens had come to rob the homeowner and his family in the middle of the night.

“When deputies arrived, they did find masks on the [faces of the deceased] young men," Sheriff Levett said.

The Sheriff's spokesman said late Monday afternoon that investigators had concluded that  "the three now deceased individuals had their faces covered as they approached the residence and attempted to rob three individuals in the front yard.  One of the attempted robbery suspects brandished a handgun and fired shots at the residents before one of the intended robbery victims returned fire. The victims of the attempted robbery were all uninjured, but the three attempted robbery suspects were all shot during the exchange of gunfire and succumbed to their injuries, one on scene and two at a local hospital after being transported." 

The brothers' aunt, Thornton, said the family is aching for answers, wondering why the teens went out in the middle of the night wearing masks, wondering why they would have confronted the other family, wondering if the teens had been shot in the back as they were running away, wondering why the three members of the other family--the homeowner, his mother and one other person--were outside in their front yard at 4:00 a.m., wondering why the teens would have walked all the way down that street to the last house in the cul-de-sac, wondering what ballistics tests will show, anxious to get answers about everything.

"I hope that someone can come forward and let us know what’s going on. Because this is, like, devastating to my family. There are three teens that are dead, now," she said. “And we all loved them.”

The homeowner, getting word to 11Alive through a neighbor, said he is not ready to comment.

The sheriff said his office is still investigating, to decide whether the homeowner will face any charges or if this will turn out to be a case of self-defense. 

11Alive Legal Analyst Latonia Hines explained how the "stand your ground law" works. 

"Basically what stand your ground allows for is that you can defend your habitation, property and others with possibly using deadly force," she said.

"It's going to require a lot of investigation here," she added. " You've got to look at the facts you've got to look at they're talking to the individual who did the shooting, you're also looking at the shell casings to figure out if this really matches what the witness statements are."

 

 

[RED333]

Darwin gets 3 more, play with fire and the end is bad.

[DWARREN123]

Bad decisions equal bad results!

From everything I have read it sounds like the homeowner was protecting his family.

[DaveTN]

It really pizzes me off that the victim of an attempted home invasion by mask men firing guns at him has to worry about making a statement. While the Aunt of the violent criminals wonders if they were shot in the back.

Armed thugs that have committed a violent crime are still an immediate threat; even when running in the opposite direction. They need to either thrown down their weapon and surrender; or be shot.

[bersaguy]

21 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

It really pizzes me off that the victim of an attempted home invasion by mask men firing guns at him has to worry about making a statement. While the Aunt of the violent criminals wonders if they were shot in the back.

Armed thugs that have committed a violent crime are still an immediate threat; even when running in the opposite direction. They need to either thrown down their weapon and surrender; or be shot.

What the Aunt should be asking is why was the 3 teens wearing masks and out at that time of the night and why did they have a gun or guns??? It is always good boys that are all members of a choir at the local church that got killed according to family members........ It does not matter what the homeowner and his family was out in their yard at 4 AM doing. That does not give the punks the right to attempt to rob them and use a gun in the process. They just picked the wrong people to rob but they won't be robbing anyone else or being good boys singing in a choir.........JMHO

[Omega]

1 hour ago, bersaguy said:

What the Aunt should be asking is why was the 3 teens wearing masks and out at that time of the night and why did they have a gun or guns??? It is always good boys that are all members of a choir at the local church that got killed according to family members........ It does not matter what the homeowner and his family was out in their yard at 4 AM doing. That does not give the punks the right to attempt to rob them and use a gun in the process. They just picked the wrong people to rob but they won't be robbing anyone else or being good boys singing in a choir.........JMHO

She did ask this question, as if is the responsibility of the investigators to answer that.

3 hours ago, Omega said:

The brothers' aunt, Thornton, said the family is aching for answers, wondering why the teens went out in the middle of the night wearing masks, wondering why they would have confronted the other family, wondering if the teens had been shot in the back as they were running away, wondering why the three members of the other family--the homeowner, his mother and one other person--were outside in their front yard at 4:00 a.m., wondering why the teens would have walked all the way down that street to the last house in the cul-de-sac, wondering what ballistics tests will show, anxious to get answers about everything.

She should be asking the parents what they were doing out in the middle of the night, wearing masks; Why they "confronted" the other family.  Maybe they real question is why they were not in bed, getting a good night's sleep for school that morning.  Maybe she should be asking if they have been doing this kind of thing before, and not getting caught, or possibly killed someone doing just that in the past.

 

[Guest BCR#1]

Three hood rats get their just reward, room temperature and now a dirt blanket. Good riddance.

Bill

[bersaguy]

I think one of the main problems with all these young kids in early to middle teens have got slaps on the wrist for way to long and they don't think if they get caught they will get much more than probabtion at most. I think it's time that the courts begin fitting the time to the crime regardless of the age. I have seen far to many cases of teenagers being caught with guns in schools. There was a kid caught today in a Nashville School  with a 9MM semi - auto and he said he bought it on the street for $120.00. They didn't say if the gun was stolen but I bet it is one of the 275 guns taken from a vehicle this year so far..........JMHO

[chances R]

On 9/17/2019 at 12:58 PM, Omega said:

......

11Alive Legal Analyst Latonia Hines explained how the "stand your ground law" works. 

"Basically what stand your ground allows for is that you can defend your habitation, property and others with possibly using deadly force," she said.

......

 

E

Basically WRONG as usual by the press.  "Stand your ground" basically relieves one of the duty to retreat, or as Branca would explain the element of avoidance.  One's defense of habitation, which I presume would be the home would come under the castle doctrine.  The home would be highly defensible property, but that's about the limit of property protection.

The simple fact that they were assaulted by a group, armed no less, and shots fired would seem to make this an open and shut case of self-defense, justifiable homicide IMO, barring any other circumstances.

 

https://lawofselfdefense.com/final-score-homeowner-3-armed-robbers-0/

Edited September 18, 2019 by chances R
additional info

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Maybe the aunt should have spent more time making sure her nephews didn't grow up to be feral humans. If 3 armed and masked dudes broke into her house how would she react? 

You know why I (and the OVERWHELMING majority of folks) have never been shot while breaking into a house? I don't break into houses.  Play stupid games...win stupid prizes. I'm sorry but I just really don't have much sympathy for people who plan to rob and kill people. 

On a side note...so much for bad things only happening in "bad" neighborhoods. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Cruel Hand Luke

[miller_man]

1 armed home owner vs 3 masked, gun toting thugs? GOOD JOB ON THE HOMEOWNER!!

 

3 hours ago, Cruel Hand Luke said:

On a side note...so much for bad things only happening in "bad" neighborhoods. 

Ya, that's why I'm not a put on my gun to run to the store person. If I'm awake and have pants on, I have a gun on - usually just a G43 in a pocket around the house - but still a gun within arms reach.

[Sunfish]

I'm pretty sure they trick or treated the wrong house. Not too much happens at 4 in the morning that's on the up and up. So let the good times roll in my opinion

[trblmkr13]

This seems to be a perfect example of playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes

[swiley383]

I am in my yard sometimes at 4am. When we are doing OT at work I leave the house between 4:30 and 5:00am. I live in a ruel area outside of Nashville. Guess what is with me when I leave.

[A.J. Holst]

12 hours ago, swiley383 said:

I am in my yard sometimes at 4am. When we are doing OT at work I leave the house between 4:30 and 5:00am. I live in a ruel area outside of Nashville. Guess what is with me when I leave.

I can legally walk my property 24/7.

And like others, if I'm wearing pants, I'm probably walking heavy.

[E4 No More]

6 hours ago, A.J. Holst said:

I can legally walk my property 24/7.

And like others, if I'm wearing pants, I'm probably walking heavy.

And if you're not wearing pants you're probably walking drunk. 

[Erich]

A case can be made for not wearing pants being a deterrent all in itself, or at least a good distraction.

This is my rifle...this is my gun....

Edited September 27, 2019 by Erich

[m16ty]

On 9/27/2019 at 3:57 PM, Erich said:

A case can be made for not wearing pants being a deterrent all in itself, or at least a good distraction.

This is my rifle...this is my gun....

Had a guy tell me one time that if you ever run into a big old boy wanting to fight, strip down stark naked. Said they will either walk away, or if they do still want to fight, they won't be real eager to get really close to you. I guess he may be right, I know I wouldn't want to roll around on the ground in a scuffle with a naked man.

[peejman]

11 hours ago, m16ty said:

Had a guy tell me one time that if you ever run into a big old boy wanting to fight, strip down stark naked. Said they will either walk away, or if they do still want to fight, they won't be real eager to get really close to you. I guess he may be right, I know I wouldn't want to roll around on the ground in a scuffle with a naked man.

 

 

[Raoul]

But LaShawn says they were loving brothers... What about the castle doctrine? On your own property and a gaggle of "loving brothers" tries to rob you at gunpoint... gimme a break.

 

[chances R]

In the strictest sense Castle Doctrine questionably applicable.  But having a gun pointed at you is sufficient.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

If an innocent person is in reasonable imminent fear of grave bodily injury or death then lethal force is justified. I'd say someone pointing a gun at you pretty well covers that.....

[A.J. Holst]

On 9/17/2019 at 12:58 PM, Omega said:

. A Sheriff's spokesman said late Monday afternoon that the teens were attempting to rob three people in the front yard of a home, and one of the teens opened fire on the alleged robbery victims.

Well beyond illegally entering a home, brandishing a knife, or pointing a gun.

[m16ty]

On 9/30/2019 at 8:50 AM, peejman said:

 

 

That must have been where the guy I was talking to got it from.

[KahrMan]