Last night on LIVE PD…

[FUJIMO]

31 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

Actually, no...they can only enforce state/federal laws.

I just assumed since the patriot act anyone with a badge was promoted to federal marshal level. I mean the dog catcher in my area carries an AR15

[DaveTN]

Like every other law or procedure it depends on where you are. I was kinda surprised to see Tennessee Police Officers have limited jurisdiction. In the state I was in, Police Officers had to be certified by the state and they had full Police Powers anywhere within the state.

Shows like live PD are not only entertaining, they let some folks (Kids) see real life situations play out, and they can learn something.

[E4 No More]

52 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Like every other law or procedure it depends on where you are. I was kinda surprised to see Tennessee Police Officers have limited jurisdiction. In the state I was in, Police Officers had to be certified by the state and they had full Police Powers anywhere within the state.

Shows like live PD are not only entertaining, they let some folks (Kids) see real life situations play out, and they can learn something.

In Missouri where I was a policeman there were different classes and thus different certifications. A class A county carried the highest number of academy hours required for certification, but an officer in that county had arrest powers anywhere in that county. A police officer in a class B county only had powers in their city/town. That caused some Kansas City, MO police officers some liability exposure because Kansas City's city limits are in four counties, (Jackson, Cass, Clay, and Platte counties), of which only one was a class A county: Jackson. I worked in Clay County which could have been a class A county but they refused that classification for some reason that I was never privy to. 

[DaveTN]

In Illinois the State Police had their own Academy, Chicago had their own, and then there was Champaign for the rest of the state. They were all accredited the same. Cops were cops as long as they were standing within the borders of the state. (Or outside the state in pursuit)

The only jurisdictional issue we really had was that if we arrested someone, we had to take them to the closest County jail and Court. We couldn’t go to Chicago and arrest a suspect and bring him back downstate, without extradition or them waiving extradition. Of course, when they found out they were headed for the Cook County jail if they didn’t waive; most were happy to go downstate.

I know you probably have funny stories about knuckleheads that don’t know the law, but we had Park Rangers in our city parks. This was before the internet and it was going around amongst the kids that if the Park Cops tried to stop you and you ran out of the park; they couldn’t do anything. Or if the Park Rangers were out in the city; they couldn’t stop you. I can’t count the number of times I’ve backed up a Park Ranger and watched a teary-eyed kid watch their car or motorcycle roll off on a wrecker. They would always ask me “Can he do this, is this legal?” I always told them if you are going to become a lawyer on a traffic stop; you probably should know the law. 

We also had smaller towns around and some thought if you made it from one town to another it was olly olly oxen free. Imagine their surprise.

[E4 No More]

56 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

In Illinois the State Police had their own Academy, Chicago had their own, and then there was Champaign for the rest of the state. They were all accredited the same. Cops were cops as long as they were standing within the borders of the state. (Or outside the state in pursuit)

The only jurisdictional issue we really had was that if we arrested someone, we had to take them to the closest County jail and Court. We couldn’t go to Chicago and arrest a suspect and bring him back downstate, without extradition or them waiving extradition. Of course, when they found out they were headed for the Cook County jail if they didn’t waive; most were happy to go downstate.

I know you probably have funny stories about knuckleheads that don’t know the law, but we had Park Rangers in our city parks. This was before the internet and it was going around amongst the kids that if the Park Cops tried to stop you and you ran out of the park; they couldn’t do anything. Or if the Park Rangers were out in the city; they couldn’t stop you. I can’t count the number of times I’ve backed up a Park Ranger and watched a teary-eyed kid watch their car or motorcycle roll off on a wrecker. They would always ask me “Can he do this, is this legal?” I always told them if you are going to become a lawyer on a traffic stop; you probably should know the law. 

We also had smaller towns around and some thought if you made it from one town to another it was olly olly oxen free. Imagine their surprise.

Many times I wished Missouri was like Illinois in that respect. The cities in Class A counties and the Highway Patrol had their own academies. Smaller cities/counties would mostly send their recruits to the Highway Patrol Academy for basic certification because it was less expensive than the academies for the big cities. The Highway Patrol Academy is where I was sent for basic and various certifications/trainings. That's where I became certified as both a RADAR and BreathAlyzer instructor. I also attended their police pursuit driving course and what they called "Red-handled Gun" training. That's where we practiced getting shot during traffic stops by firing cotton balls that were stuffed into pistol cartridge cases that were launched with magnum primers. You can't imagine the welts a bruises cotton can leave on you at close range.  

Anyway, there was a sheriff in a county that was along the route from my town to Jefferson City, (where the Highway Patrol Academy and prison are located), who was known for stopping law-enforcement vehicles from departments outside of his county making sure that they weren't carrying any concealed weapons.  You see, open carry was legal in Missouri, but concealed carry required a license in the jurisdiction that you were carrying in. The dude did NOT believe in professional courtesy. Having statewide training and authority would have solved a lot of problems.

[DaveTN]

39 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

Many times I wished Missouri was like Illinois in that respect. The cities in Class A counties and the Highway Patrol had their own academies. Smaller cities/counties would mostly send their recruits to the Highway Patrol Academy for basic certification because it was less expensive than the academies for the big cities. The Highway Patrol Academy is where I was sent for basic and various certifications/trainings. That's where I became certified as both a RADAR and BreathAlyzer instructor. I also attended their police pursuit driving course and what they called "Red-handled Gun" training. That's where we practiced getting shot during traffic stops by firing cotton balls that were stuffed into pistol cartridge cases that were launched with magnum primers. You can't imagine the welts a bruises cotton can leave on you at close range.  

We never got shot with anything, but we had students from the U of I theater group participate in vehicle stop training. It was pretty cool, but I had never seen so may cops killed in all my life.  What people don’t think about is that it teaches you that anything less than a controlled felony traffic stop can result in you getting shot unless you absolutely act immediately. Even then if the perp waits for the right moment; you are probably shot.

39 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

Anyway, there was a sheriff in a county that was along the route from my town to Jefferson City, (where the Highway Patrol Academy and prison are located), who was known for stopping law-enforcement vehicles from departments outside of his county making sure that they weren't carrying any concealed weapons.  You see, open carry was legal in Missouri, but concealed carry required a license in the jurisdiction that you were carrying in. The dude did NOT believe in professional courtesy. Having statewide training and authority would have solved a lot of problems.

Yeah, we both know there are cops that are azzhats. But it sounds like the problem was your state laws that allowed him to do that.

[E4 No More]

10 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

We never got shot with anything, but we had students from the U of I theater group participate in vehicle stop training. It was pretty cool, but I had never seen so may cops killed in all my life.  What people don’t think about is that it teaches you that anything less than a controlled felony traffic stop can result in you getting shot unless you absolutely act immediately. Even then if the perp waits for the right moment; you are probably shot.

Exactly. The big take away is that you're going to get shot so accept it and react. The idea behind the training was to train you to rapidly move through the normal thought processes and into action. Their theory was that during a deadly force incident you went through several stages of thought before action, but many people freeze during the process due to lack of training. IIRC, the first stage is the obvious one of recognizing the threat. The second stage was denial as in "I can't belief this is actually happening." This is where most people freeze and get killed. The third stage was anger, and the forth is drawing and firing. Basically, they were training you that if you see a gun then you draw first and ask questions later. I idea with the cotton was that at close range it hurts enough to register that you've been hit yet you keep on fighting anyway. For me, I channeled the thought that I may die but I'm going to live at least long enough to take the bastard with me.

It also had training for other things. They taught you that people in general are adverse to shooting through something. This was demonstrated by accounts were bad guys didn't shoot because the cop stuck his ticket book up between the gun and their bodies, and people who reached around things like glass to shoot. We were taught to fire through the rear window glass.