See Something- say something!!!

[bersaguy]

So evidently the Authorities have been able to prevent 3 or 4 mass shootings according to the news networks. Some because people spoke up and others because the future shooters posted something on Facebook or another Blog and authorities saw it and arrested the Perp and found he had a stash of weapons and ammo. I will not say I am happy they were able to get these people before they could carry out their plans because I am thrilled about it. I wish they could stop a lot more than they do. My question to folks here is how many of them really would have gone through with their plans and how many were just seeking notority and attention and that is why they shared their plans with friends knowing that the friends would tell someone that could stop them before they could carry out their plans. The authorities have said over and over that there are always some kind of warning signs before mass shootings but to many times people either don't see them till it's to late or they just don't speak up??

[Quavodus]

Some times theres warning signs but, you hear all the time where people will say after something happens, he seemed like a completely normal guy. That I think is where his neighbors and people he worked with didn't really know him.

[E4 No More]

13 minutes ago, Quavodus said:

Some times theres warning signs but, you hear all the time where people will say after something happens, he seemed like a completely normal guy. That I think is where his neighbors and people he worked with didn't really know him.

They said the same thing about Ted Bundy.

[Alleycat72]

1 hour ago, bersaguy said:

So evidently the Authorities have been able to prevent 3 or 4 mass shootings according to the news networks. Some because people spoke up and others because the future shooters posted something on Facebook or another Blog and authorities saw it and arrested the Perp and found he had a stash of weapons and ammo. I will not say I am happy they were able to get these people before they could carry out their plans because I am thrilled about it. I wish they could stop a lot more than they do. My question to folks here is how many of them really would have gone through with their plans and how many were just seeking notority and attention and that is why they shared their plans with friends knowing that the friends would tell someone that could stop them before they could carry out their plans. The authorities have said over and over that there are always some kind of warning signs before mass shootings but to many times people either don't see them till it's to late or they just don't speak

How is this possible? The news man thing said we need red flag laws to do this.

[DaveTN]

What is changing here is that law enforcement is being allowed to do their job instead of having to worry about politics. Why? Because that’s what Americans want. In the past you have had plenty of people that want to argue that “That really wasn’t a threat”, or “He didn’t threaten a specific person, so there is no victim”. Those people are being told to sit down and shut up and the courts and the suspects peers will deal with it.

Will it help? Sure, it may stop some shootings. But it won’t stop them. It won’t stop the nut case that doesn’t talk to anyone, and doesn’t post crap on Facebook; like Paddock or Lanza.

In the stories I saw in the last few days it seems to me (or maybe I was just feeling guilty) that the press spends more time on how many weapons or ammo the people had, than on what they intended to do.

[Defender]

I saw on the news that the cook guy who threatened to shoot up the Marriott Hotel had an 'arsenal', and hundreds of rounds of ammo. Hmmm.  The picture they showed looked like 2 or 3 long guns and 2-or 3 pistols.  Thats an arsenal?  Not saying he couldnt do a lot of damage with that, heck it just takes one gun and some ammo to do a lot of damage.  Wonder what the news media would think of some or the collections of guns belonging to people on here, lol.  I had more guns than that and plenty of ammo for each caliber before they were all tragically lost in that boating accident in the lake...

[Erich]

On 8/23/2019 at 4:12 PM, DaveTN said:

it seems to me (or maybe I was just feeling guilty) that the press spends more time on how many weapons or ammo the people had...

Totally. Surely are focused on putting the weapons at the forefront to create as much negative association with them as they can, and in as close proximity as possible (when they can) to use their favorite buzz words, 'weapons of war'.   They are more propaganda machine than news centered it would appear.

 

On 8/23/2019 at 12:03 PM, bersaguy said:

My question to folks here is how many of them really would have gone through with their plans and how many were just seeking notority and attention and that is why they shared their plans with friends knowing that the friends would tell someone that could stop them before they could carry out their plans.

When you look at them, it sure does seem some where a cry for attention versus a real threat. Wix is a good example. His text messages seem to be intended for that purpose even touching on if they were shared. Wanting to get a 3mile kill shot with a 22 rifle? All sent to an ex girlfriend with implication they use to plan such things when they were together. Doesn't that implicate her as well?  That one rings as 100% BS

But, hey, you only need to get a few to make it worthwhile (as far as enforcement effort)

I still hold all names and personal demographics should be withheld from any real or planned events. It takes away the notoriety they seek. Sadly the Media INSISTS on rewarding these murders and asshats in general with all the attention they want.

[owejia]

Authorities have said they prevented mass shootings, we will never know because no one but the shooter knows if they will carry out that vile act. That is the reason for touting red flag laws, kinda like spying on your neighbors. Until the shooting actually starts it is all pure bs. The ones that are serious will always find a way to carry out their plan.

[pop pop]

I don't like their "See Something Say Something" attitude. for one it turns you neighbor into a spy watching your every move. Not all people are as up front as should be. 

I am all for stopping shootings before they happen but to turn you neighbor into security over their  neighbors, I just don't like that approach.

Red Flagg laws are not good laws either. Most that are proposed do not have ay appeal process. Once you are flagged you loose all second amendment rights plus a lot of other scrutiny coming your way. Suppose you get a judge like the one in Nashville who just got dethroned for forcing his litigants to have sex with him and his buddies to stay out of jail. No judge should have the power to revoke your rights on a suspicion of your neighbor. 

[DaveTN]

35 minutes ago, pop pop said:

I don't like their "See Something Say Something" attitude. for one it turns you neighbor into a spy watching your every move. Not all people are as up front as should be. 

I am all for stopping shootings before they happen but to turn you neighbor into security over their  neighbors, I just don't like that approach.

Red Flagg laws are not good laws either. Most that are proposed do not have ay appeal process. Once you are flagged you loose all second amendment rights plus a lot of other scrutiny coming your way. Suppose you get a judge like the one in Nashville who just got dethroned for forcing his litigants to have sex with him and his buddies to stay out of jail. No judge should have the power to revoke your rights on a suspicion of your neighbor. 

People have been using the “See something say something” idea for years; Police Departments depend on it for crime detection. Most of us are normal everyday people with good morale values that will report a crime when we see it, or suspect it is going to happen. There are some neighborhoods where that doesn’t happen, but it isn’t because they are afraid of violating someone’s rights.

If someone accuses you, it’s going to start an investigation; not an automatic seizure of your weapons. I only support Red Flag laws because they could provide Due Process that is not there now. Will those laws be abused? Possibly, probably rarely, and those will be in family situations that are your problem, not ours. That’s why I’m okay with leaving the laws the way they are; they take your guns if they think you are a threat and you may or may not get them back. 

35 minutes ago, pop pop said:

I am all for stopping shootings before they happen

We all are, what are some of your suggestions or doing that?

[pop pop]

(Quote)   We all are, what are some of your suggestions for doing that?

 

My suggestions, good Police investigative work. Most of the mass shooters has a trail on social media. That is a place to start. They also have family members, many of whom have made reports to Police that have gone uninvestigated until stuff happens. Case in point latest shooter. His mother reported him to the Police prior to his carnage. 

Red Flagg laws, in and of themselves, wont work. Authorities are not utilizing what they have now. Case in Point, momma made call, no follow up. Wham, shooting.  Politicians solution, Make it harder to purchase guns and turn his neighbors into watch dogs. WONT WORK TO STOP NEXT SHOOTER.

Red Flagg Laws. Judge can take your guns away without due process and on the whelm of a Judge with no review process or way to get them back.

Fix the gun show loophole, nix check on ever gun transaction in America, even if you give you son a gun you own.  Just another way to know where every gun is in the US so they can come and take them, by force, if a politician wants too.   

All the politicians are proposing is just another way to chip away at the 2nd amendment and depriving gun ownership, IMO. These laws WILL DO NOTHINNG TO STOP MASS SHOOTINGS. Just make gun tracking and my nosey neighbor my watchdog.  SO CALL ME PARANOID! 

My suggestion, USE THE LAWS THEY HAVE NOW AND PUT THE THUGS IN PRISON ANDKEEP THEM THERE. Suggestion, hire more Police and let them do their jobs. If they mess up, use current laws against them. That is the way it supposed to work.  

The mental health problem. Who Knows. No one is doing anything to combat this problem at present. They closed all the State Mental Health places because of lawsuits by family members. Took TN 20 years and millions of dollars to get out of that mess. Walla, no mental health help! Don't look like any of the states are getting back into that business soon.  

[DaveTN]

5 minutes ago, pop pop said:

My suggestions, good Police investigative work. Most of the mass shooters has a trail on social media. That is a place to start. They also have family members, many of whom have made reports to Police that have gone uninvestigated until stuff happens. Case in point latest shooter. His mother reported him to the Police prior to his carnage. 

Red Flagg laws, in and of themselves, wont work. Authorities are not utilizing what they have now. Case in Point, momma made call, no follow up. Wham, shooting.  Politicians solution, Make it harder to purchase guns and turn his neighbors into watch dogs. WONT WORK TO STOP NEXT SHOOTER.

So immediately we are back to “If you see something say something.” That’s all anyone is asking.

It’s impossible for Police to have the manpower to monitor social media. So, they must rely on “If you see something say something.”. They ask family members to come forward, if not, they ask neighbors or others to come forward. Families need to be educated. The Police doesn’t have to be the first call they make. They can get help from mental health folks. I would guess cost is the reason they don’t do that.

Yes, the cops need to do good old fashion Police work. Investigate and either act or mark it “unfounded”. It happens thousands of times daily. Cops are people. You have some that can be sent and the problem will end. And you have some that don’t want to do their job. As fewer people want the job you will probably have more of the latter. But make no mistake, if you are threatening someone with violence most cops will arrest you, put you in jail, take your guns, and hand it off to the DA and courts; as it should be.

5 minutes ago, pop pop said:

Red Flagg Laws. Judge can take your guns away without due process and on the whelm of a Judge with no review process or way to get them back.

As I have said here many, many times; you don’t have due process now. The cops can come and take your guns. I support due process. That’s all Red Flags laws are, they aren’t laws that allow the cops to seize your guns; they can already do that. Red Flag laws (should) lay out the due process of what is going to happen. If you don’t like that don’t support it and ask for changes. If you don’t support Red Flag laws just because of their name or because you don’t understand what they do; tell your legislators you don’t want them at all and are good with the cops doing whatever they like.

5 minutes ago, pop pop said:

Fix the gun show loophole, nix check on ever gun transaction in America, even if you give you son a gun you own.  Just another way to know where every gun is in the US so they can come and take them, by force, if a politician wants too.   

All the politicians are proposing is just another way to chip away at the 2nd amendment and depriving gun ownership, IMO. These laws WILL DO NOTHINNG TO STOP MASS SHOOTINGS. Just make gun tracking and my nosey neighbor my watchdog.  SO CALL ME PARANOID! 

Okay, you are paranoid. 

There is no gun show loophole. That’s a name the left uses because they want people to think its fixing something that isn’t happening. People were being led to believe FFL’s were selling at gun shows without background checks. That is not what was happening and if it was; they were committing a felony. They want to outlaw all private sales without a background check. For a long time they didn’t want to say that; now they will. Do I agree with it? No, but I know its going to happen. It’s political suicide for most any politician to say he doesn’t support background checks. Yes, you will have your THTHTOAG’s (Trump Haters That Happen To Own A Gun) blaming him for it. But it will probably come at the state level. My guess is the Feds haven’t passed it yet because they know it won’t pass SCOTUS muster unless the states do it. We will see.

I am a Patriot that does not fear my government. I have no reason to. I believe that background checks will stand or fall on their own merit. But I do not believe for one second they would create a registry. That’s why I addressed your paranoia comment.

5 minutes ago, pop pop said:

My suggestion, USE THE LAWS THEY HAVE NOW AND PUT THE THUGS IN PRISON ANDKEEP THEM THERE. Suggestion, hire more Police and let them do their jobs. If they mess up, use current laws against them. That is the way it supposed to work.  

Hallelujah brother, that’s what I have been saying forever. I don’t even think that most places need more cops. Unhandcuff the ones you have and let them do their job. Back them up when they are right and deal with them when they are wrong. Send violent offenders to prison. Save the probation and house arrest for non-violent offenders. If we can’t house the violent offenders we have, build more prisons; it won’t cost nearly what the Green New Deal will cost, and it will be better for honest citizens.

The most obvious example of this problem is Chicago. Kim Foxx obviously hates cops and thinks minority violent offenders are getting a raw deal. But it’s becoming more common in other cities.

5 minutes ago, pop pop said:

The mental health problem. Who Knows. No one is doing anything to combat this problem at present. They closed all the State Mental Health places because of lawsuits by family members. Took TN 20 years and millions of dollars to get out of that mess. Walla, no mental health help! Don't look like any of the states are getting back into that business soon.  

Mental health is the key. But not just as it pertains to guns. Some kids are brought up by parents that shouldn’t have pets let alone kids. Those kids don’t have a chance of functioning normally as adults when they get out in the harsh real world. Once they decide their life isn’t worth living; laws no longer matter to them. And the only fix is detection and neutralization of the threat before they act.

*****

Pop Pop, I think you sound frustrated just like most of the rest of us. Heck I’m almost as pro-gun as anyone can be. I say almost because I don’t think because someone is a criminal that happens to use a gun, they are like me, or that legislation that addresses their criminal acts are somehow a violation of my rights. But that's not popular on a gun forum with some.

I support due process. We do not have that now as far as gun confiscation goes. Cops can take your guns if they have a valid complaint; when and if you get them back is anybody’s guess. That’s not right.