Will you defend the 2nd when the time comes?

[TGO David]

If this thread continues to make forays into Tinfoil Hat Territory, it will be closed. There are a lot of forums out there on which people can discuss how they will mount up an armed resistance against the Government if "they" decide to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

A far better use of our time here in the World of Reality would be to mobilize against those who would do us harm by defeating them at the voting booth, and contacting our elected representatives to make our concerns known.

[Guest jackdog]

My take on this is that 90% of the 10% who say they'll fight to the end, won't.

After a recent thread I think your assessment may be A tad on the weak side, but i have to agree with you.

[Guest jackdog]

I've thought about this alot and one question comes to mind. With 300+ million guns in circulation, and 80+million current gun owners, just HOW will the government track down all gun owners and take their guns? First of all they will have to track down all the owners which would take a new government agency almost as big as the IRS costing billions, and since it's just impossible to track down all gun owners, it's even more logistically impossible to take their guns. You don't even have to engage them in a firefight, just do nothing. Even if they went to all gun stores and collected all the records that would cost billions and since private citizens often sell guns to other citizens with no records it would be a waste of time and effort and money that even most of the non gun owning public wont tolerate spending.

Well I can keep going on about the logistic impossibility of banning guns here in the US but I wont, the only thing the government could do is effect current (legal) gun and ammo sales, and try to scare gun owners through the media with some token raids.

My question is what makes you think that government ATF does not already have these records in their possession.

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

My question is what makes you think that government ATF does not already have these records in their possession.

How would they have such records? NICS doesn't record serial numbers for transactions, so unless agents are visiting every FFL in the country on a regular basis and photocopying all their records, I don't see how they could be collecting such data.

And even if they did, every citizen in the country has a ready-made alibi for why they don't have a particular gun any more... at least until they close that pesky private-sale loophole.

[creeky]

I am always amused by threads like this. I have heard friends over and over say the same tired things... "They will get the bullets first" or " From my cold dead hands", etc. (Yawn.)

I mean no disrespect, let's look at this logically... as I have pointed out to some friends of mine. You just shot a couple of cops for trying to "take" your guns. What's next? Bury them in the backyard? Don't you think the dept. knows something is up when they can't be reached? So now you got 20 guys that evening to deal with... now what? Oh I forgot.. you have 10 billion-kazillion rounds in the basement. And you're ready for your wife and kids to make a final stand with you! Have you mentioned this worse case scenario to them yet? They might want a little input on it.

Sorry... that just seems more like a delusional day dream than anything else. I wonder sometimes how many "good old" buddies of mine that spout off that kind of stuff actually have even taken the time to even send an email to their representative, or appeared at a council meeting.

Much less rationally thought about what they are saying.

The day they come to take my guns is the day I am ready to leave this country. Because we have already lost... it was lost long before they came. It was lost when we became too apathetic and too lazy to take an interest in trying to influence elections, and more over let the gun-owner voice be heard.

We were too busy talking about what we would "if" and "when"... and not about "here" and "now".

(Again... I mean no disrespect.)

[Guest mustangdave]

If this thread continues to make forays into Tinfoil Hat Territory, it will be closed. There are a lot of forums out there on which people can discuss how they will mount up an armed resistance against the Government if "they" decide to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

A far better use of our time here in the World of Reality would be to mobilize against those who would do us harm by defeating them at the voting booth, and contacting our elected representatives to make our concerns known.

Got to agree with you Tungsten...only problem is those darn election intervals...there's no way to do a wholesale change over at one election...like needs to be done.

[K191145]

My question is what makes you think that government ATF does not already have these records in their possession.

Even if they did have ALL the files of gun transactions say over the past 20 years, they would have to number in the tens of millions or more. How many people does the ATF have working for them and how are they going to go through all those transactions and decide who to target?

Like Tungsten said our best bet is to inform our representitives that they will be defeated in the next election if they vote on anti-2nd Amendment bills and remind them of 1994. I just don't see 20 swat team cops charging up the hill to my house to relieve me of my guns. If they do then what about the other 79,999,999 gun owners?

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

Man if or founding fathers had attitudes like some of you guys we would still be answering to the Queen of England.

[Punisher84]

Man if or founding fathers had attitudes like some of you guys we would still be answering to the Queen of England.

The founding fathers didn't run around town screaming they were mounting an armed rebellion against the Brits either.

There is a time and a place for subtlety my friend. The measure of a man is not made by what he says, but what he does.

To quote a poular film: It's not who you are underneath, but what you do that defines you.

Lot of truth in that.

[Guest nraforlife]

The founding fathers didn't run around town screaming they were mounting an armed rebellion against the Brits either.

There is a time and a place for subtlety my friend. The measure of a man is not made by what he says, but what he does.

To quote a poular film: It's not who you are underneath, but what you do that defines you.

Lot of truth in that.

Agree - When the time comes we will see who will stand and who will run

[cadillacdude1975]

i work with a police officer and his reply was simple when asked how he would handle the order to go confiscate guns. he simply looked at me, took out his credential and threw it on the ground and walked away and stated that is what he would do. he stated his life is not worth someone shooting him over a dirty job ordered down from above.

if that situation came to the forefront, the local LEOs would be the ones called to take the ones who refused to hand over said firearms to jail, and therefore they would be the ones in the most danger in my eyes.

[Punisher84]

i work with a police officer and his reply was simple when asked how he would handle the order to go confiscate guns. he simply looked at me, took out his credential and threw it on the ground and walked away and stated that is what he would do. he stated his life is not worth someone shooting him over a dirty job ordered down from above.

if that situation came to the forefront, the local LEOs would be the ones called to take the ones who refused to hand over said firearms to jail, and therefore they would be the ones in the most danger in my eyes.

Lot of truth in that and while they may be fewer now, I believe there are still some people that principles and values matter more to than a job.

[Guest nraforlife]

Lot of truth in that and while they may be fewer now, I believe there are still some people that principles and values matter more to than a job.

I agree, but will be there be enough? And, if the Oshi.tmeister gets his own standing outside the military group going WATCH out....

[Guest jackdog]

I agree, but will be there be enough? And, if the Oshi.tmeister gets his own standing outside the military group going WATCH out....

Would I want to shoot an LEO? Hell No

IF it came to defending to 2a rights then he has made his choice.

As for the mystic O's personnel force not a problem.

[K191145]

Man if or founding fathers had attitudes like some of you guys we would still be answering to the Queen of England.

If the FF could have gotten their independence through peaceful means they would have done so I'm sure. We still have the power to affect government if we choose right now. No one has said they would cower and surrender their arms if confiscation squads came to their door, I just don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. First we have to pressure our Reps and Senators in the House, local, state, and federal. I'm sure somewhere down the line the Obama Administration is going to try to pass some anti-2nd Amendment legislation but first we have to let our federal Reps know there will be political consequences if they vote to pass it. I will say that if some bill or law is passed banning any certain firearm I have, I'm not going to voluntarily turn it in.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

Would I want to shoot an LEO? Hell No

IF it came to defending to 2a rights then he has made his choice.

As for the mystic O's personnel force not a problem.

Awwww......what about the other amendments? That poor little Fourth Amendment left out there in the cold all by his warrantless lonesome.

If the FF could have gotten their independence through peaceful means they would have done so I'm sure. We still have the power to affect government if we choose right now. No one has said they would cower and surrender their arms if confiscation squads came to their door, I just don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. First we have to pressure our Reps and Senators in the House, local, state, and federal. I'm sure somewhere down the line the Obama Administration is going to try to pass some anti-2nd Amendment legislation but first we have to let our federal Reps know there will be political consequences if they vote to pass it. I will say that if some bill or law is passed banning any certain firearm I have, I'm not going to voluntarily turn it in.

The issue we have is this idea of "democracy." Our constitutional republic was never intended to be a democratic society. As it stands, we're too often forced into lesser-of-two-evil voting, and it only takes 51% of the people to cram their collective will down the throats of the other 49%. That is very, very bad. That is exactly what our Constitution was designed to prevent.

Do you really think the republicans, viewed nationally, are just so much better than the democrats? I don't, but I'll not attack your views if you do.

Edited February 11, 2009 by Abominable_Hillbilly

[K191145]

Awwww......what about the other amendments? That poor little Fourth Amendment left out there in the cold all by his warrantless lonesome.

The issue we have is this idea of "democracy." Our constitutional republic was never intended to be a democratic society. As it stands, we're too often forced into lesser-of-two-evil voting, and it only takes 51% of the people to cram their collective will down the throats of the other 49%. That is very, very bad. That is exactly what our Constitution was designed to prevent.

Do you really think the republicans, viewed nationally, are just so much better than the democrats? I don't, but I'll not attack your views if you do.

I believe that Republicans are much more controlable when it comes to certain issues like the 2nd Amendment but that issue is regional also. On a Federal level, Republicans are less likely to vote on anti-2nd Amendment legislation than Democrats.

[Guest jackdog]

Awwww......what about the other amendments? That poor little Fourth Amendment left out there in the cold all by his warrantless lonesome.

I thought GWB took care of that little amendment with the unpatriot act.

The issue we have is this idea of "democracy." Our constitutional republic was never intended to be a democratic society. As it stands, we're too often forced into lesser-of-two-evil voting, and it only takes 51% of the people to cram their collective will down the throats of the other 49%. That is very, very bad. That is exactly what our Constitution was designed to prevent.

Do you really think the republicans, viewed nationally, are just so much better than the democrats? I don't, but I'll not attack your views if you do.

Now on this we are 100% in agreement.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

I believe that Republicans are much more controlable when it comes to certain issues like the 2nd Amendment but that issue is regional also. On a Federal level, Republicans are less likely to vote on anti-2nd Amendment legislation than Democrats.

I'll have to disagree with you. I've never seen a republican present a bill that requires the government to issue every eligible adult an unnumbered M240 and 20k rounds of ammunition for the same. When they do, I'll consider them to be approaching a good attitude toward the Second Amendment. They'll at least be getting warmer.

Likewise, I'll be impressed with our state republicans when they attempt to remove the prohibition against non-regulars engaging in armed militia training.

[Guest jackdog]

As A matter of fact there is such word (democracy) in the bill of rights or any part of the US constitution. It seems the founding fathers did not want to even bring that idea up.